xjwsforChrist

AGUEST SAID

May you all have peace! For some time I have been of the mind that humans are not getting smarter, as some claim. True, advancements in science and technology seem to make it APPEAR that we are, but is that the reality? Personally, I can't see it: for me, it started when I realized that my children weren't being taught how to tell time the "old-fashioned" way, by the analog clock-face, but digitally. I made it my business to teach them (although I have NO idea if they remember now - I hope so!). But I was startled that something so... basic... was being lost. I became even more concerned when similar methods were replaced with more "new age" things. And I can't describe the anxiety I felt for them when I saw the new "texting" languages and ways of spelling. I did console myself by thinking that, well, language and words "evolve"... but I was still very uncomfortable about it.

Of course, there have many positions on both sides as to whether we are actually getting smarter... or dumber. And so I asked... and it appears that what I was seeing SHOULD have been concerning: it is one of the things that will lead to the "love of the greater number cooling off" - the deterioration of man's mind... due to its replacement by machine-think, which produces rote, mechanical, unfeeling thinking, which ultimately lacks empathy and compassion.

Many tout the benefits of critical thinking; yet, they seem to overlook that having methods and techniques that think FOR us most likely won't lead to MORE and BETTER critical thinking... but less thinking at all.

I saw an announcement on the news this morning that a study done by Stanford University apparently shows that humans are getting dumber and I was intrigued: could it be true? Again, I personally think it is, and have for some time. I mean, given just what many US students (heck, adults!) no longer know (i.e., who the VP is, or the Supreme Court Justices; sometimes even sundry everyday words)... or need to do TO know... and the increasing emphasis on the strength of the body/physical vessel over the mind. I cannot tell you how many people I know who don't read... well, pretty much anything... except MAYBE tabloids - and particularly JWs, which blew my mind - most of those I knew didn't even read the WTBTS publications, except perhaps the week's WT study article, and then only by skimming. I digress.

These things have stood as "evidence" to ME on the matter that strength of MIND is not considered a desirable virtue by many (heck, some even consider strength of thumbs more important - LOLOL!). Indeed, many actually take issue if another deigns to "know" something. I have learned, though, that it is those who DON'T know who take such issue, because they feel "threatened." The fear is easily remedied, of course - bother TO know. But they don't want to make that effort and so continue in their fear.

And so now it appears that there is scientific evidence that says it is true, we are literally getting dumber:

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/h ... bled=false

Some would say that since there is now tangible EVIDENCE that we ARE getting dumber, and thus devolving intellectually, is no longer a theory but now a FACT. Yet, I believe that there are some who will ever argue with this evidence, in spite of their own assertions that scientific evidence IS the end of it, a fact, and thus there can be no argument.

I've posted about this on JWN because I want to see how some there might respond. I believe that there are those there who blame any dumbing down of man on religion... or, more likely, faith. Yet, the study doesn't seem to indicate belief in God as having anything to do with it; rather, it seems that science is the culprit.

I am curious as to what others here might think on this, as well. Tell me: do YOU think we're getting smarter... or dumber... and if so, why?
I look forward to your comments!

Again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

SA

CHARIKLO SAID

Off the cuff, I'd say we are getting more specialised rather than dumber.

Instead of one person being able to turn their hand to all manner of different things, not only do we now have machines and computers but there is a specialist for everything.

We no longer walk a long way to the well to get our water. We turn on the tap...is it faucet with you? If it goes wrong, we call a plumber. We don't have to make our own clothes. We just go down to the shop or buy online even. And so on. My father, for instance, who was born at the end of the nineteenth century, could do all manner of things. He could fix most things electrical, sort out the car engine if it went wrong, teach children, plough, look after all kinds of animals, he was excellent with woodwork of all kinds and built us a garden house from scratch, even down to choosing the logs for the timber...I know, I remember going down to the limber yard with him when he chose it, and watching as the planks were sawed. I can still smell that lovely wood smell! He was a musician, a watercolour painter...you name it, he could do it!

Primitive man must have been able to do so many things and learn as he made new discoveries. Exciting to think about. But nowadays we are also highly inventive. I'm astonished at how fast our children learn and what they know. Amongst my grandchildren, my 20 month old granddaughter can press with her finger and do the simplest things in a pre school game, while her three year old brother gets the whole thing right every time, and knows how to do all the right things. I have grandchildren all the way up through the ages, and several of them can definitely teach their grandma new tricks!

That may seem a trite example but I'd say, we still have all the capabilities and intelligence of our grandchildren. We just use it differently, because we're in the process of adapting to a fast-growing technological environment.

JUSTMOM SAID





Good Morning Aguest and this is interesting.

Although I consider myself not intellectual or highly educated I do understand what you are saying. An example came to me as I have been in the restaurant business my whole life. Having owned one myself I had the experience of when hiring individuals to use an old-fashioned cash register these young people would text with one hand and make espresso with the other yet......did NOT know how to make change on a register. (counting back money)
Also the older generation that would come into my coffee business wanted to ban cel phones and computers as it is annoying to hear people talk and do business 24 inches away from them. One of the main reasons they asked is because NOBODY communicates with each other anymore. Conversation is rare! I had to say "they were right!" People too busy on phones and computers. Even being hit by vehicles more now as they are texting while crossing streets.
Although I will admit I am guilty of using and texting myself, I can also see where it causes people to not have the opportunity as often if at all in regular day to day activities to be in tune to "people" their needs, feelings, reactions etc....
So although we may be more computer technology smart, I see we are not as in tune to "people smart".

just my thoughts
justmom

CHARIKLO SAID

How interesting the different treatments of this subject here and on JWN!

Here just a sprinkling of posts. Over there, four pages and counting, and the usual crowd were there just waiting in the wings for you, Shelby. I wish I could come in there and contribute something interesting, but my mind went blank as I saw it all going on! That atmosphere there tonight just isn't conducive to thought for me!

I really don't have anything more to say on the subject though, except that I don't think the premise bears up. When everything is taken into consideration. Yes, the further back in time we go the broader the range of skills individuals might have, but people were old if they made it to forty, and most seem not to have done so. Yes, we have computers now to do work for us, but clever specialists invented and built the computers in the first place. Others devise rockets to explore the solar system. We have immunisation to help prevent disease. We can also kill more people at once and there is depravity on a huge scale as with the terrible scandals we hear about, certainly here in the Press at the minute.

Probably we're about the same. What does interest me is how very quickly new technology gets taken up. Children learn new skills very quickly indeed.

One of the things I used to like in Star Trek was the school on the Enterprise, where children of seven or eight seemed to be proficient at calculus! They were ordinary children in other respects. Actually, while that is fiction, I think it's a good example of how new ideas take off and grow everywhere, with not intelligence as such but attainment increasing almost exponentially.

AGUEST SAID

Thank you all for your comments (peace to you all!).

Yeah, another almost-drama on JWN, dear Char (peace to you!). I guess I'm a sucker for punishment. Just thought I'd try and "reach out" and, well...

BUT, it appears that NC and I are coming to some kind of and understanding, which is HUGE imho. We managed to keep it civil between us (some of the boyz just can't help themselves - boyz will be boyz, I guess!).

So it seems to ending on a not so bad note - LOLOLOL! NC did say something that shed some light on things for me:

"... we were treating you exactly how we treat each other and the ideas we put forth." (Yikes, I thought - LOLOL!)

"There is a lot of history here, so it might be best not to jump at every perceived slight, cuz they are going to happen." (Okay, they're GONNA happen. Okay - I can handle that, if I KNOW that's what's gonna happen)

"So try to understand that we LOVE to rip apart an idea like this and bring a bunch of stuff to the table. It's exciting to us, because we are building our knowledge base and challenging ideas. ... It's science! It's how science rolls." (I did not know that because, although I've attended university with and worked with scientists, I never really saw that. I am not sure it's scientists, so much as resident atheists who happen to also be [amateur] scientists, but she's giving me a heads-up. I appreciate and can accept that.).

Sooo... we'll see. Might be awhile before I venture back over there. I think I just needed some closure after my other thread just disappeared. For the best, I'm sure, but apparently I wasn't "finished" - LOLOLOL! Now, I think I am. For a bit, anyway.

Although... there is that one thread... LOLOLOL!

Peace and again, thank you dear ones for your comments. Maybe my willingly to readily agree with the study is due to my own life experiences. For us non-scientists, though, sometimes that all we have to go on.

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

CHARIKLO SAID

I am absolutely certain that your thread didn't disappear because it was your thread, Shelby, but because of what others did to it.

And that ancient thread that was resurrected did you no harm either.

AGUEST SAID

I am glad to know that (about the disappearing thread), dear Char (peace to you!). I was concerned that perhaps my vision(s) were of some offense. I realize now that of course that couldn't have been the case, as Simon and Angharad (and the mods) are used to me - LOLOL!

And the resurrected thread - what WAS that?? Folks going back 11 years to try and find something to say "AHA!" to? LOLOLOL! They only looked quite silly to me (given what I knew about the situation with Unkle-Skunkle - I miss him... maybe I'll reach out to him tomorrow, matter of fact...).

Uh-oh... just checked back and there are a couple of new inquiries... from partakers and such! Okay, gonna go see how I can help - back here tomorrow, dear one(s)!

Peace to you all!

YOUR servant and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

GLADIATOR SAID

Yes - AGuest - for a long time I have thought that people are becoming dumber. In the UK children seem to be driven everywhere while they sit texting pigeon English to their mates. Adults too have become dependent on various gadgets that do most things for them.

One large DIY chain of stores now actively seeks to employ retired men and women because they tend to be knowledgeable, reliable and have people skills.

A firm I have friends in, informed me that the replies to work vacancies for secretaries are misspell and badly worded. This is in Sussex, which is supposed to be the posh part of the country. Up north they are too busy eating huge portions fish and chips to write to anyone or apply for work. Naturally I'm perfect

LEANN SAID

Dumber in what way is the question really? If we look at the entire picture it is that people are 'growing' one side of the mind more than the other... The mutation' that shelby had once referred too.

If you focus the product of your life to 'serve' self (logic and accomplishments or right and wrong depending on how you want to see it...(desire of the eyes)(left brain) than you are feeding one thing and starving what really causes intelligence which is a complete picture..(right brain,... true wisdom and understanding of what is really there, consciousness) to do that the soul/spirit must be feed completely and in a perfect world the left brain would actually not feed itself but would contribute to the right brains power.

So what we see today is a starving of the spirit/soul. (general pattern)... sheep without a shepherd starving, bleeting because they are blind and deaf.

Love
LeAnn

PAULSACRAMENTO SAID

I don't think humans are getting dumber as much as common sense is less and less common and certain types "intelligence" is valued above other types.
My 5 year old was playing games on the computer and her DSI when she was 3, before she could even read/recognise letters.
She picks up her mom's playbook and finds new games and plays them and wins !
The 9 year old is one a whole other level !
LOL !
BUT, while the 9 year old is at very advanced level for reading, speech and computers, her math is atrocious !!

CHARIKLO SAID

My 8 year old granddaughter patiently explains to me how to navigate a complex computer game.

My 3 year old grandson has mastered a preschool iPad game.

His 19 month old baby sister can play the simplest level of the preschool game.

Me? I play online chess! Open to any takers! LOL!

AGUEST SAID

Thank you all for your comments!

I think I mean more of what dear Glad has offered (peace to you!). I absolutely acknowledge that SOME folks are getting smarter, absolutely. Those, perhaps, whose parents/teachers/caregivers foster intellectual progressiveness. Unfortunately, I don't see that fostering among the masses (sorry, folks, but I don't). I see/hear of it in news spots and the occasional meeting, and even from/among dear folks such as yourself. But that still seems to be a minority, IMHO.

We ARE working "smarter" not "harder"... but I just wondered if that "smarter" is costing us in other ways. I mean, like medicine: while it may be doing some (even great) good as to one aspect of one's health, and fast, it could also be more slowly... and insidiously... doing harm.

That was really my point. I think I just shared too much information as to why I feel as I do, what I see. Often.

But THANK you for your comments. I am not looking for agreement and so I am very appreciative of the other perspectives and opinions that have been offered. Forgive me if I sound "down" - I have a REALLY bad cold (and headache)... and also have run into some of the "usual" over at JWN and so probably appear to be in a foul-er mood than I really am. I'm probably bit in "fight" mode... which I probably shouldn't be in, but, ah, well... did it to myself, I did- LOLOLOL!

Please continue with this discussion. I am learning and loving it!

Peace to you all!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

CHARIKLO SAID

I've been trying to get into JWN this evening but can't get the site to open for some reason. Maybe they're on overload at the minute. If I can. I'll find the thread you're on. It gets tiresome over there sometimes and at the minute there is this tiny aggressive group that make all the noise...*sigh*

Back to the thread title. I wonder if part of the problem is actually the problems within society as a whole? So that what can be seen as individual lack of ability might be to do with the way bits of society are polarising and fragmenting, and I wonder if this could be because, as a society or culture, we are undergoing a massive period of fast-escalating change, on a scale never before experienced by humans.

We live in an unnaturally-structured society. I am not saying it is bad, I suspect that we are witnessing and living through a time that future generations may look back on and see such rapid change in comparison with all previous centuries. We don't know what it's leading to. We, at least I, and I know some of you too, hope for a Star Trek-like future society where most of the problems we currently experience have been ironed out...no money needed!!!!! But the reality may be disappointingly different.