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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:59 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

Oh, shoot, cross-post, dear Haggelos (again, peace to you!). I can have mods delete mine, if you wish. Absolutely NO problem at all. Just lemme know!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:59 pm 
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JUSTMOM SAID

Aguest....


NO! No need to delete. It is absolutely uplifting to my spirit to see how our Lord uses those in union with Him. One spirit, same message.
Praise Jah!

Your sister in CHRIST
Justmom


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:59 pm 
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CHARIKLO SAID

Quote:
Haggelos wrote:
Chariklo: Not a problem here, my sister.

Question: How do you understand the following biblical text:

“4And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.”—Revelation 20:4-6.

--Haggelos




Haggelos, how do I understand this passage? Two answers: first, not literally, and second, I don't try.

To explain: a thousand years was accepted symbolism for a very long time, just as 144, being a multiple of twelve by twelve, symbolised a very great number, thus compare the 144,000 people made so much of by JW's.

Secondly, the Book of Revelations is so much written in symbolism and virtual code that it is a mistake to try to interpret each bit individually and literally. I see it very much as St Augustine did, as a great work summarising the City of God and the City of Man, in short, the battle between God's rule and Man's, God's Way and Man's.

Even that amount of definition feels uncomfortable to me. The Book also incorporates a fair bit of history contemporary with the world at that time, within the Roman Empire.

Most of all, I trust God, that He is working his purpose out and that His Will will prevail. I firmly believe that attempts to define and analyse such parts of the Bible as the Apocalypse (Revelations) are flawed. JW's are just one in a long line of millenarian sects/cults that do so. They're not the worst and won't be the last. At least they don't kill those who disagree with them, like the Taborites of the Middle Ages! But you have to realise that many of the terms you understand in one way are merely definitions created by this mere one instance of millenarian thinking. JW's are just one sect of many such fundamentalist groups who, by insisting that they are the ones who have it right in interpreting so many details, lose sight of the wood by focusing on the trees.

No. We are meant to focus on God, and follow Jesus, day by day. Minute by minute. Just our ordinary daily lives, each little minute lived for God in the way Jesus taught us, day by day, seeing Him in each person, will be enough and more than enough.

KISS, as the saying goes!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:59 pm 
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KASSAD SAID

Just a thought on "ruling". Didn't the apostles desired this as much? Arguing amongst themselves who is the greatest? But Jesus said, he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. The Kings and Priests of the Kingdom will be unlike anything we have expected. It will be "upside-down". Servants.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:00 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

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The Kings and Priests of the Kingdom will be unlike anything we have expected. It will be "upside-down". Servants.


YES, dear Kassad (peace to you!)!!!!! YES! BUT... there ARE kings and priests "of the kingdom". That was the BETTER HOPE that Christ held out (versus just a resurrection, which is what Israel was hoping for).

I think, though, that by only look to the account of it in the revelation, some (like perhaps our dear, dear Char - peace to you!) OVERLOOK the accounts of it in other writings, such as Genesis, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, the Gospels, Paul's letters to the Corinthians, and the letter to the Hebrews.

True, the WTBTS is somewhat obsessed with it... actually, that's NOT true: they APPEAR to be, want it to LOOK like they are... but the TRUTH is that they are in direct OPPOSITION to it! They SHUT UP that kingdom... before men... because THEY... are NOT going in.

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), our dear Char doesn't seem to have been within them long enough to know the BASIS for the things they teach, and that while a lot if MOST of it IS based on what's recorded in the Bible... their POSITION and ACTUAL teachings are in total opposition, errors and lies as TO such things, fomented by false christs and false prophets.

As Christ is recorded to have said:

"The scribes and Pharisees seat THEMSELVES in the 'seat of Moses.' ... Do as they SAY and NOT as they DO."

If one is paying attention while in one CAN get a good inkling of what the message... to Israel, both physical AND spiritual... was and is. But THEIR propaganda is DESIGNED to induce sleep! It is one the MOST poisonous forms of religious "opium" ever handed out to man. The fact that they call themselves the "truth," when CHRIST is the Truth, should be sign of their impostership. Unfortunately, that brainwashing (which even I succumbed to at one point) "washes" over that truth, diluting, if not removing it altogether... from the BRAINS... and hearts... of JWs.

Do we need the Bible to know God/Christ? No, we don't. We only need to know Christ... and not know OF or know ABOUT, but KNOW... by means of being in UNION with him... as a man KNOWS a woman HE has had a union with... and by means of HIM we can know (by means of being in union with)... God. However, as he said to me:

"ALL that I tell you IS written... but not all that is written is what I will tell you."

He meant written, including in the Bible, but not ONLY in the Bible and not necessarily in the Bible. But some IS written in the Bible. How do we know, though, what to believe/receive and what to reject? All comes back to the same thing: ASK. HIM.

I have... and even WITHOUT me asking... his kingdom, and the co-rulership of his brothers... is absolutely part of the GOOD news. The part that says, "I am not only going to give you a kingdom, build it for you, but I am going to let YOU rule it... WITH me."

This is in fulfillment of what COULD have happened with Cain/Abel... Ishmael/Isaac... Esau/Jacob... Jospeh and the other 11... Saul... David... and EVERY king Israel has ever had: rather than being ENEMIES with their own brothers, these COULD have ruled TOGETHER WITH their brothers. While it wasn't the fault of the one "chosen" that he didn't, Christ is showing US... AND them... a SURPASSING way: love, even of one's enemies.

We were once enemies of Christ, by means of being enemies of God... by means of transgressions against the Law. Whether Israel (and so direct transgression, as God's people) or the nations (by means of not HAVING the Law and thus not being OF God's people). Christ, by giving HIS life IN EXCHANGE FOR OURS... FULFILLE the Law on behalf of Israel... and REMOVED it, on behalf of the nations... so that now we can be HIS friends... and thus, like Abraham, God's.

Because we are brothers AND FRIENDS... he, unlike the leaders/rulers/kings of Israel BEFORE... but LIKE Israel's FIRST chosen leader, Moses... who SHARED his leadership with HIS brother, Aaron... will has promised to share HIS kingdom with HIS brothers: those who make up his Body.

They will rule UPON the earth, from the "city" of New Jerusalem, which comes down OUT of heaven after their marriage to the Lamb. For now, such ones are PROMISED in marriage and receive a TOKEN of that promise, holy spirit. But only enough to provide a little "flame", but not change their flesh (so, no white heads/feet). THEN, however, they will receive the FULLNESS of the promise... so as to be CHANGED... to be LIKE him: incorruptible and eternal.

They share in part of his rule with him ("a thousand years" - which is NOT necessarily literal, but denotes a long time from MAN'S perspective, but is very brief in light of his rule, which is FOREVER)... which is just another feature of the GOOD news of the kingdom. Life... for ALL who receive the inheritance... along with rulership, for some... those who are "chosen."

In anticipation of that privilege, those who belong to Christ are being SUBDUED... being taught PEACE... and learning war NO MORE. And not just war as the nations understand it. Not peace, as the world knows it. But war... as in even against one's BROTHER, war on a PERSONAL level... and peace, as our Lord gives it. Meaning peace, even toward one's enemies, which COULD be members of one's own household.

The WTBTS, while touting themselves as not "learning war," by their refraining from participating in wars between world governments, regimes, etc., show themselves to have NOT learned the TRUE lesson, as CHRIST teaches it... by the "wars" they CONTINUE to create, foment, and encourage... among BROTHERS, and EVEN in households.

They don't GET it. They assume to take on wrongs against GOD, when they all exist in sin themselves. Not ONE is able to throw a stone. Yet, they sit in judgment of others. Rather than FORGIVE, they point the finger. Rather than LOOSING the yokebar, they place burdens on others they themselves are unable to bear. They DON'T get it.

But, as my Lord said of others, so is true of them: because they SAY they see... THEIR sin remains. They don't forgive; neither will they be forgiven. UNLESS... one GETS OUT OF HER. Otherwise, such one(s) WILL share in HER sins... and thus, receive part of HER plagues. Because with the SAME judgment that THEY judge... they will BE judged.

What is done in the dark WILL come to light... and it ain't limited to what's done in the bedroom, which is what most of them fear. It includes what's done... in the HEART... which will be revealed when her... and THEIR... "nakedness" IS exposed. Just as Adham's "nakedness" was covered... and hidden... the opposite will occur... and all "nakedness" will be open... and exposed.

And so I, long with the entire spirit realm still in union with the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... PLEAD:

GET OUT OF HER... my people!!!!

May those with ears hear... and get the SENSE of this truth... as well as when the Spirit and the Bride say to THEM:

"COME! Take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of God, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... which spirit is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... FREE!"


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:00 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

Ooops, forgot to add:

Peace to you all!

YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with, and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

(Yeah, I need to do that. For my own reasons. Peace!)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:01 pm 
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LOZ SAID

So wonderfully refreshing to read your last long post here Shelby, my spirit bears witness with all you say, and it is distinctly 'clean' to me from a truth point of view, as in 'unsullied' and 'untarnished'. I hope that makes sense to you?

Loz x
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:01 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

It does, dear Loz (peace to you and welcome back!). Please, though, remember to give JAH and Christ their due (praise and glory)? I know you will, of course, as I know ALL of the Body of Christ here does.

Again, peace to you, my dear sister!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

Shellama... who only shared as to these things what she was given eyes so as to "see" by the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). Praise JAH, you people!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:01 pm 
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LOZ SAID

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AGuest wrote:
It does, dear Loz (peace to you and welcome back!). Please, though, remember to give JAH and Christ their due (praise and glory)? I know you will, of course, as I know ALL of the Body of Christ here does.

Again, peace to you, my dear sister!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

Shellama... who only shared as to these things what she was given eyes so as to "see" by the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). Praise JAH, you people!


Yes, of course, such truths could only come from that source.

Loz x
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:01 pm 
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YPPUPLLEH SAID

Question

"My Spirit bears witness to what you are saying"
"My Spirit is in agreement to what you are saying"

Is another way of saying "I agree"? Or is there something more?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:02 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

Is another way of saying "I agree"? Or is there something more?

It's a reason WHY one agrees, dear HP (peace to you!)... or why one can't disagree. Something can be made to sound right (i.e., the 144,000/little flock and the great crowd/other sheep being two distinct groups (true) having different hopes (false) and so having different destinies (false), but that it sounds right doesn't make it truth.

Holy spirit, however, which speaks to our spirit... by means of speaking blood (God's through Christ) to blood (ours)... bears witness to the truth... by means of bearing to what comes FROM the Truth, Christ, and so by means of it one can KNOW something is true... as well as from him.

Because it is by means of the anointing with it that God leads... and Christ teaches... those who belong to Them.

I hope that helps.

Again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:02 pm 
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YPPUPLLEH SAID

Then if someone's spirit bears witness to a thought or idea then it validates it as truth without a possibility for it to be false?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:02 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

It would depend on whose spirit is having witness borne to it, dear Pup (good morning and peace to you!)... and by whom. What or rather who's spirit is leading. Not all inspired expressions originate with God so some bear testing. Others, however, have holy spirit (God's spirit/blood) bear witness with one's spirit/blood. In which case one usually feels compelled to "agree" with or "testify" to the truth of it. It's pretty much saying "Amen."

I hope that helps!

Again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:02 pm 
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YPPUPLLEH SAID

Noted
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