xjwsforChrist

TEC SAID

Yup.


Everything else tends to get in the way, and often to the point of making us doubt what we hear and see in/from Christ.

Peace,
tammy

AGUEST SAID

Yeah, well, I wish my Spanish teaching was so on point, dear ones (peace to each of you! - LOLOLOLOL! Sorry, but my Lord obviously isn't leading me as to THAT - LOLOLOLOL! Hmmmmm... maybe I should've asked him to. Maybe I still should - LOLOLOLOL!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

SAB SAID



Narcissism has nothing to do with homosexuality. Healthy self love is best described as good self esteem rather than "healthy narcissism."

Sam Vankin author of Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited states:

"Research failed to find any substantive difference between the psychological makeup of a narcissist who happens to have homosexual preferences and a heterosexual narcissist."

Homosexuality is sexual orientation which is determined by genetic predispositions, not psychological.

-Sab
_________________
It only ends once everything else is just progress - Jacob, LOST

AGUEST SAID

Sorry, but I must disagree, Sab (peace!). You put your faith in the opinions of earthly scholars... and that's okay for you. I have to put mine in the One from whom all man came, the One who was used to make man in the first place ("Let us make man in OUR image"). Since what man IS came OUT of that One... my common sense says he would know better than I. Better than everyone. Now, if you can't hear him, perhaps that's why you need to look to those you CAN hear (or whose words you can read). Again... that's okay for YOU. Not for me.

Of course, what I believe is irrelevant; neither you nor anyone else has to take my word for it. Hear... or refrain, your choice. I do not judge you for it. But I will share the truth about the matter with you... WHETHER you choose to hear... or refrain.

For me, the bottom line is that my Lord does not have an issue with homosexuality. He never addressed it when he was in the flesh... although it was very prevalent in Jerusalem at the time, even though it was part of the Law. Why didn't he? Because it wasn't an issue. Anymore than, say, a woman's normal menstruation was. It was a "fact of life."

Now why he explains WHY he doesn't have an issue with it is of no consequence to ME. The bottom line is love covers a multitude of transgressions and WHY one is gay doesn't really matter. What MATTERS is whether we allow LOVE to "cover" what some may THINK is a transgression... or whether we continue in our "judgment."

I personally rejoiced when he explained HIS view on it... in the same way I rejoiced when he explained his "transfusion" of blood. BOTH release the conscience and say it's entirely OKAY... to love, accept, and/or do. And that's sufficient for ME. I have my OWN "sins" to worry about... and so I am MOST grateful that I don't HAVE to worry about anyone ELSE's... or even things that I may PERCEIVE as sins... but HE has "released."

It's like enjoying a ham sandwich... or shrimp cocktail... or getting a tatoo: never really WAS a problem and certainly isn't NOW.

I hope this helps!

Again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

SA

SAB SAID

Shelby, you have refused to address the simple point spelled out in the OP. The Bible clearly indicates that homosexuality was created by the Word of God. The question is why did he created it? The first question is did he create it, which is answered by John 1:1.

The Torah states that humanity is evil from childhood onward. The word it uses is not evil from infancy, but evil from YOUTH. When a baby is born it is born perfect, there is no questioning this (your "lord" does!). However as the infant grows it learns the ways of men and is immediately turned evil. This is because the whole world lies in the power of the human ego. The ego covets and is greedy and takes what it wants by force. It assigns itself total authority and does nothing but wreak havoc and create despair. All the while believing it is not only acting righteous, but BEING righteousness itself. It demands that others act as it does and uses any means necessary to force the matter. All done in the name of "the greater good" which can only be understood by IT and ONLY IT.

The baby is not evil, the dragon, the beast and the harlot are. We are born into the WORLD of sin. We are NOT the sin itself. My dad growing up told me that because I breathed I was a sinner. That is a lie he was told by men in suits.

Shelby, the Bible is like a painting. It can be examined close up and at a distance. The symbols therein can be interpreted myriads of differing ways. There is a linear structure to all interpretations. One symbol connects with another or many resulting in an understanding that can be implanted into an unsuspecting mind.

Lets say you painted the Bible on the inside walls of a room. A very small amount of paint would be given to the depiction of males and females abandoning their natural way. Why, you say? Because it was a very simple issue. Heterosexuals abandoning their natural way is an abomination to God. Just as a homosexual abandoning their natural way is equally abominable before God. We are to act as we are designed (ie CREATED), not as someone else dictates to us.

Homosexuality is found in nature and is a perfectly acceptable and designed human state. It would be of our best interest as a species for this to be discovered as early as possible. Sexual orientation is something you are born with. You identify which gender(s) you are attracted to. You are not told which gender is acceptable and which is not. That is abuse. What is acceptable is how we are born into the world.

This view is not compatible with how you view the world. This is because you have a misunderstanding of the nature of sin and how it affects mankind. This is not your fault. Just as you cannot choose your sexual orientation, you cannot choose which part of the world you grew up in and with whom. Those factors are out of your grasp and acceptance is needed.

Sin is when you do something that hurts yourself, someone else or your environment. Which causes a state of decay and eventually death. We have sin because when you and I were born we inherited the problems of our parents. The mistakes they made, as well as any genetic abnormalities, were immediately ours and the mistakes they were going to make became our future. We could not help but become a product of this. Therefore, it is logical to call our state sinful. Sin isn't a curse from God, it's a state of entropy that exists for a very mysterious purpose. For reasons unknown to science, our universe is on a collision course with destruction. Many people have turned away from the idea of God to focus on personal survival, whether that be mental or physical. These people should not be judged with an iron fist, but with a warm hand of mercy.

The fact is that Genesis 1 says Elohim created the world, which is the One True God which has three Aspects. John 1 says that Christ, or the Word, was one of those Aspects. YHWH is also one of those Aspects. Genesis 1:2 has the third Aspect which is called the Spirit of Elohim.

When Elohim created man they made them in the image of themselves and what resulted was masculinity and femininity both with paternal instinct. Like Elohim, all of humanity is part male AND female. As you can see, Genesis 1 gives no human names, just the references to "mankind", "male" and "female." All created in the image of a SINGLE God with three Aspects! These Aspects can be easily referred to as Father, Mother and Son.

So, Elohim is a Family and that Family asks us to worship the Son. Just as a boy takes over the family business of the father.

Science shows that homosexuals are not incapable of raising a family. As in being patriarchs and matriarchs of family. If one were to make such a claim, they would immediately be refuted by the obvious truth present all around them past and present.

The Bible doesn't say anything about God hating gay people. If anybody on this planet deserves to live, it's them. They have been soldiering on in peace for a very long time. They deserve to enter society with dignity, honor and authority. It's only a matter of time.

If you are interested in this topic further, I wrote a post about the subject of the Triune God located here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchto ... ure-of-God

-Sab (who IS something)
_________________
It only ends once everything else is just progress - Jacob, LOST

CHARIKLO SAID

Leaving aside, for the moment, the rightness or wrongness of homosexuality, Sab, I'm not at all sure that it follows that because homosexuality is found in nature it is a perfectly acceptable and designed human state.

Could it not be said, perhaps rather more logically, that because God gifted Man with free will, homosexuality is the result of free choice? I'm not thinking of whether it is right or wrong, you understand, just whether it logically follows that because it exists it must be acceptable and designed, since God made all things. That would mean that every single thing that happens is directly designed and planned by God, and you could...in fact, logically speaking would HAVE to include in the "everything that exist" logical process all manner of clearly unacceptable behaviour, like hooliganism, theft, murder, paedophilia.

The argument doesn't hold up in the light of reason, logic and just plain good old fashioned common sense.

SAB SAID



You could say that, but biology would prove you wrong. Saying homosexuality is a choice is akin to saying eye color is a choice. We are born how we are born. It's a simple truth that many refuse to accept.

-Sab
_________________
It only ends once everything else is just progress - Jacob, LOST

TEC SAID



Sab, I'm not sure if you meant to address that to anyone here, or if you were just stating a fact... but of course God does not hate gay people... or straight people. They absolutely deserve to be loved and treated with love, as much as any other person. No one has said otherwise that i have seen.

Just wanted to respond to that part.

Also agree with what Char said... regarding God not having created everything in this world. That would imply that He also created the bad, and He did not do this.

Peace,
tammy

SAB SAID



"Bad" isn't a thing so it's not part of creation. Choice, however, IS a thing and was created. When you create choice you are implicitly allowing evil as a possibility. Without the possibility for evil there is no choice. God created evil by creating choice. Creating choice WAS a choice. Some would call it a good choice and some would call it bad.

-Sab
_________________
It only ends once everything else is just progress - Jacob, LOST

TEC SAID

Something can be used for good... or for bad. (this is a different conversation, lol)

But if we choose to do bad with something (including freedom and choice themselves)... then we have created the bad thing.

Peace,
tammy

AGUEST SAID


I didn't refuse to address it, dear Sab (peace!); I chose not to because, first, as you stated, it was your opinion:



I chose not to, second... because I didn't want to make you appear foolish IN your opinion that since "homosexuality" is a noun it is a thing. Because a noun is not just... or necessarily a thing. A is a person, place, thing, OR idea. In this case, since the word "homosexuality" is merely the state of BEING of the ADJECTIVE "homosexual"... it denotes a noun that is an idea related to a person... and not thing (like, say, a boat)... and so not necessarily CREATED by means of or through my Lord. That's not to say no ideas were created through him; many were and are. However some, like, say... adultery... which is the state of BEING of an adulterer... was and is not. Or, say, thievery... which is the state of BEING of a thief... was or is not. Follow?

Since you ARE entitled to your opinion... rather than "argue" as to the errors in your... opinion... I simply countered with another opinion on it: my Lord's. Who did not express an opinion one way or the others. Which was sufficient for ME.


The answer to both questions is... he didn't, your opinion is based on error.



I can only limitedly respond to that, since I'm not sure "where" the Torah "says" that (I'm thinking you mean Genesis 8:21. I can comment that there are two Hebrew words for "childhood"... yalduwth... which is the same as that for "youth"... and na`uwr... which means "youth" OR "early childhood." There is an additional word for "youth" alone, that perhaps refers to, say, puberty... shacharuwth ... because it refers to the blackness of hair (of youth), but that word isn't used in this verse, so...

Now, early childhood could also mean infancy... as children THEN were considered infants until they were weaned, which was between age 3 and 5. Today, the age varies, between 1 and 3, at least in the western world. This was NOT the western world, so...


Sorry, but that's incorrect, dear one. It's exactly the opposite; we are born bad and must LEARN good. We have the example of Christ himself, to show this:

"... JAHVEH himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted." Isaiah 7:14-16

Even my Lord had to LEARN to choose good... and reject bad. Your assertion, however, is that he is the only one (of flesh with its blood) that had to do that. I would assert, however, that you don't even need this verse to show you the truth: just put your dear baby in a room with another baby... or a couple/few babies... and one toy. Seriously. Do it. Then let's talk about humans being born "perfect". Because perfection is LOVE, dear one... and love is something LEARNED. True, it may be learned different ways from different people, but it is learned. But you don't have to take my word for it. You don't even have to try what I suggested. Just have another child... and wait. You'll find yourself wondering about all the love your first baby "knew"... and where it went... when you have to TEACH him how to ALWAYS love his new baby brother or sister... and not just when he's feeling "generous."



Sab, you expressed frustration that you can't anyone to listen to you... to understand what you're saying. Somehow, you take that as some kind of "sign" that what you're saying is right... while also acknowledging that you (1) don't know and so (2) are learning. Well, there's a REASON that you have a difficult time finding folks to listen to what you say... besides the fact that they're really just your opinions: they are contrivances of YOUR ego... which LOVES it's own "intelligence"... EVEN if that "intelligence" makes little or no sense. What you just stated might SOUND good... but only to anyone unlearned enough to think that a bunch of words and concepts strung together in order TO sound good... IS good. Follow? No? Don't take it so personal, then, when folks don't understand things like what you stated above. It's not much different, actually. Although, the words and concept I strung are not only TRUE... but make total sense.



Sigh. No, the BABY is not evil; the baby is born with the penchant to DO evil, dear one. But, goodness... can you NOT see that your... concepts... are merely ideas born of your NEED to disspell ALL of what you were told by your father... because of your UNRESOLVED issues with HIM? Rather than looking TO Christ for TRUTH... you are looking AWAY from your father for it.

Which is another reason I feel compelled to avoid discussions with you: you need a kind of help beyond what I can offer. I have told of you One who CAN help you... but you would rather try and resolve this... lingering thing... by relying on your own ego. But that's why you keep going hither and thither with you thinking and understanding: you don't know HOW to get what you WANT. But it isn't a matter of how; it is a matter of WHOM. The Whom, however, is NOT you. Your own ego, however, won't let you see that.

And so... you keep "wandering." Problem is, you don't want to wander alone... and so you keep trying to get others to go along and wander with you. And you may find someone to do that yet. But it won't be me, dear one. Because I am not lost.



Sab, the Bible is merely a book to me. It is NOT the truth, NOT the word of God, NOT God's map or guide. Just a book. YOU place more importance on it than I do. Do I refer to it? I do... as I've repeatedly explained, for those who still walk by faith and need to SEE something "in writing." I am not one who does. I can only pray for the day when NO ONE does... which day IS coming! It arrived to ME many years ago. Jeremiah 31:31-34


No, dear Sab, I would NOT say. Why? Because it is not an issue of concern for me. I don't have a problem with homosexuals, homosexuality, bisexuality, transgendering... or anything like that. So, I don't NEED to concern myself with whether the Bible says a little OR a lot on it. I know Moses is recorded to have said a bit... but I don't follow Moses; I follow his replacement... who said NOTHING on the matter... at least, not as recorded. I know Paul is recorded to have said a bit on it... but I don't follow Paul; I follow the one HE claimed to be his Lord... who said NOTHING on the matter... at least, not as was recorded.

That One DID say something to ME on, however... when we discussed the matter of adultery, fornication, idolatry, fornication, and more. He said, "Do not judge... and you won't BE judged... for ALL have sinned. If you wish YOUR sins to be covered over and forgiven, YOU must cover over and forgive those of others." So, whether such are sins or NOT... I am a sinner (which means I've engaged in "something" as well)... and I want just be accepted as I am... forgiven and not having MY errors looked at, pointed out, or judged... and so I must blind MYSELF to "sin."



Dear Sab... fine. If that is your position and POV... fine. HAVE it. Why, though, do you need ME to agree with you? Who am I? You believe it? So be it. But that's what YOU believe. Be okay with that... and stop looking to ME to validate what YOU believe. Because you're not going to get that from me. I truly don't care one way or the other... or why. Truly. And IMHO, to continuing "discussing" homosexuality indicates to ME that there IS some concern. But it's not with me. I don't care whether someone is homosexual any more than I care if they're heterosexual and, say, living with someone they're not married to. Or stealing pencils from work. Or an alcoholic. It truly doe not MATTER to ME.



Sab, I don't have a problem with that, truly. I truly, TRULY, don't care, luv. I shared what my Lord shared with me as to WHY the attraction. You disagree. I would counter that if homosexuals are born such, so are pedophiles. And so are womanizers... and so are whores. Because people CAN'T HELP who they're attracted to. Right?



Cool by me. Personally, I believe the others are born the way they are, too, and so, again, who am I to judge? I do believe that just because someone is BORN a certain way... or with certain... desires... doesn't mean they HAVE to act on them. I mean, I think a man who has pedophilic tendencies really SHOULD find someone of proper age... and LEARN to love that person as well as fulfill his desires with some one... whether female OR male... but according to YOU, he probably CAN'T do that. Those who are, say, homosexuals, alcoholics, whores, adulterers, etc., most probably should refrain from judging such a man. I mean, otherwise, they would be hypocrites, no?



Acceptance is exactly what I offer, dear Sab.... and I don't have to change my view to do that.



Whoa, wait... here we go: I was wondering when the usual Sab "contradiction" was gonna show... and there it is. A baby is born perfect... BUT we have sin because "when we were born we inherited the problems of our parents." What "problems would those be, dear Sab, and are THEY not what renders us "imperfect"? Now, I get that you may have the western concept of what "perfection" means... but I would wager that that is the "problem" - your understanding of perfection is wrong. I explained it above (love, even as to one's enemies), though. Babies are born loving, dear one. Again, they must LEARN it.

And please don't think "familial" attachment is love. It isn't. It is just the natural sense of attraction to what is familiar and known.



Your contradictions are... nevermind. I think I recall somewhere you saying that you think these things out as you type them out, so I really shouldn't be surprised that where you might say one thing first, you will turn completely around and contradict that before you're done. Yet, you wonder why you can't get anyone to listen to you. Your ego, my friend... your own ego.


(Smile) If you think I think that sin is curse from God, then you TRULY have no idea who I am, what I believe... or what I've ever posted on the matter. Sin is not only NOT a curse from God... it is not FROM God, Sab.



Again, you don't know me... and if you think there's an iron first afoot, you TRULY do not know the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. Which is not a surprise, since you don't know the ONLY One who can REVEAL Him to you... the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). What you know is your own ego... which has led you to all of this... dedeucing... which just keeps leading you in contradictory circles paved with contradictory thoughts, theories, opinions, and conclusions.



Dear Sab... "Dave"... "King Solomon"... or "whoever" you truly are... believe that if you do/must. It's okay, truly. It isn't going to affect... or change... what I believe... but you are MORE than entitled to believe it.



While I do not know "Elohim" OR "YHWH"... because neither have been revealed to me by my Lord... I agree that ALL spirit beings, including the MOST Holy One of Israel are male/female. Says so in the Bible, but I know it because I know my Lord and what HE is: male AND female. I've even explained that, either here or on another site. It's why he was single, and why he could heal a woman of an unending flow of blood: he took HER "sin" into HIS body. Were he only male... WHERE in his body could have taken that corruption?

Now, you and some others for some reason NEED them to be three, not two. Okay. Do you. And I will do me, as my Lord shows me HOW to do me.

Quote:
So, Elohim is a Family and that Family asks us to worship the Son. Just as a boy takes over the family business of the father.


If your ego tells you that, cool. Because surely you're not implying that "Elohim" has TOLD you. Right? Because THAT would mean that he SPEAKS to you, yes? Yet, you seem adamant that one cannot hear a spirit being. Oh, wait... perhaps this is another Sab "contradiction" coming on...


If science shows that, then science is wrong. Dead wrong. Even I know better than that, Sab. What a terrible thing to say. You remind me of the (very stupid) radio announcer I one heard on talk radio going on a tirade against women who use IVF to have children without a male partner. That man when on about how wrong it was and that such women were incapable of raising children... and things like "what if the children ran into other children and didn't know they shared a biological father, and mated..." and so on.

You NOW I had to call that man, don't you? And you know what I told him, too, don't you? What I am about to tell YOU: your comment SMACKS of bigotry and prejudice... and is one of THE most unkind I've ever heard/read. Because... you are SAYING that the CHILDREN of such unions... children who have NO CHOICE... are an error... and will NEVER turn out "right" or "good." Who the HELL are you to make such a judgment??

You REALLY need to get over your "daddy" issues and GROW up, Sab. Really. If you can't see the utter idiocy and "evil" in YOUR comment, you are blinder than I ever thought. CHILDREN don't care who their parents are... so long as they are LOVED by those parents. YOUR position is that homosexual parents cannot LOVE a child. You... are... in... error. Indeed, their LOVE... perhaps of a fatherless child (due to adoption), which is PLEASING to God, can COVER whatever "transgressions" their flesh MIGHT (and I say MIGHT) engage in.

Really... you really need to back up, man. You're SO into your ego and self-opining that you've put yourself WAY out there. I really thought more highly of you, truly.

And, yes, in case it's not clear... that DID tick me off. WHO are YOU to make such a judgment call? Goodness gracious, you take issue with your own father for making YOU think you are "less than"... and then you go and make a statement like that. YOU don't know who reads this board. Yes, I am ticked off by that statement. It contradicts YOUR assertion of the NATURALNESS of homosexuality... by saying such folks cannot even raise a family. Of COURSE, they can raise a family. Dude... really...

Sexual orientation has nothing, absolutely NOTHING to do with whether one is "capable of raising" a family. There are a plethora of HETEROSEXUAL parents out there who NEVER should have fathered/given birth to a child. Some who even kill their own offspring.

Get a clue, Sab.



Get... a... clue, Sab. Better yet, try watching "The Birdcage." Maybe that will help you TOWARD a clue. Sheesh. I can't even believe you think that way, man. I really can't.



Oh, but wait... how can THAT be... if they can't even raise a family? And "the Bible" DOES say that homosexuality is an "abomination" to God. But so what? Due to the lying pen of the scribes, the Bible says a LOT of things about the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, that is not true! How do we know how He REALLY felt? Do I really have to spell it out for you, again? Okay, I will: look... to... Christ. Which is what I succinctly and concisely advised you to do at the very start of this thread. Did you?



Speaking for myself only, I am not interested because the matter is of no consequence to me... or anyone... as far as I'm concerned. And I have moved on from JWN, and quite willingly and happily! I have not been back once since my last day... not even to "peek." My heart... and interests... are no longer there; they are here. So, sorry, but no...


I have never doubted that. Perhaps when YOU finally accept that, you will no longer need your EGO to lead you but know that it does not MATTER if others listen to/believe you... or your ideas... if you/they are right. Truth is truth, no matter WHO believes it, dear one. And lies... are still lies... even if EVERYONE believes them.

Peace...

A slave of Christ,

SA, sending thanks to dear Zoe (peace!) for reminding us of that very truthful and pithy statement...

JUSTMOM SAID




SO SO TRUE!!!!!!
GREAT POINT!!!!
Justmom

TEC SAID



Yes, I used it elsewhere as well. Thank you Zoe



I'm sorry Sab. I did not address this. Of course you are something, and as long as you know that, then it will not matter whether anyone else agrees OR disagrees with you.

Peace to you!

tammy

SAB SAID



Homosexuality is part of humanity's genetic makeup. God created genetics and therefore he created homosexuality. John 1:1 packages all of creation into the word "things." The Greek word used is "pas" which means specifically every thing. That would mean that the Word of God created all people, places, things and ideas. Your little English lesson falls flat and distracts from the issue at hand. (golfclap)



My argument contained no errors. You just misunderstood it and then wrongly discovered errors within your misunderstanding. Then you focused on that wrong information because you don't have any substantive argument that counters my points in this thread.



Yes he did, he created homosexuality along with ALL THINGS (Greek word: pas). The Bible is clear and succinct on this issue.



All 47 times the Hebrew word "naur" is used in the Bible it's translated "youth." You NEVER say an infant is a youth, you say it's an infant. The Bible isn't telling us that baby's are evil, it is saying that baby's are good and man, the instructor of babies, is evil from youth. This would indicate that before a baby is taught the ways of men they are pure and unadulterated. After child abuse the child is never the same.


You are misapplying that Scripture in Isaiah and using it to damn children, that's pretty messed up. It should be coupled with the Scripture in Genesis 8 because both speak about the evils of youth. Isaiah elaborates on the same concept. Ignorance creates suffering which is evil. Before young ones are taught the difference between right and wrong they cannot be trusted to choose correctly. We are not born with an innate understanding of right and wrong, we must be shown the difference. This is by design. They do not have a LEANING towards evil, they are just ignorant. This is really basic stuff, Shelby.



No, I never said that. I said that I have found it exceedingly difficult to preach the ideas I know to be true. The opposition comes from all directions. I don't think I am right because others think I am wrong, that would be fallacious thinking. I think I am right because I have studied really hard and am convicted of my hard earned conclusions. I work for knowledge, unlike people who just turn on their God telegraphs.



Not even close to true. The baby is born with the will to survive and needs to be shown the difference between right and wrong. Children are naturally helpful. It's not hard to teach them right from wrong, they just need their brains to mature in order to have the capacity to understand the difference between good and evil. Without that understanding they will do evil without understanding it's evil. This is ALL BY DESIGN by our creator (who would have thought!).



You feel compelled to avoid conversations with me because your lord has warned you about me. The ego gets rid of potential threats.


Who wants to wander alone?



Yes, that's because you seek power and glory. You are a conqueror and the Bible was among your first conquests.


I am not interested in your agreement, never have been. What I have been interested is helping you see the colossal error of your ways. I set out with the full understanding that I had a very small chance of success. Probability won in this case and I failed, so why can't you just avoid me like you said so? Maybe success it's possible after all. But it will require that continue to go against your own word. When one makes too many promises they will eventually collide.


No contradiction, just more misunderstanding on your part. Which is understandable, sin is a concept that greatly evades your intellect. Sin is not something that MAKES us do anything. It doesn't make us lean towards anything, it's just a concept that describes the negative results of cause and effect. You get what you put into it. The World of Karma.

Babies ARE born INTO sin, but they have no coherent inclination towards wrong. They do wrong, but they don't comprehend wrong. Like I said they are ignorant so the wrongs they commit are unknown to them. However, they will commit more bad deeds than good ones until matured and properly instructed. It's not like baby's have an evil glint in their eyes. They are effected by the laws of cause and effect. Sin came into the world through a man and was taken out of the world by a man. This is because the laws of cause and effect are eternal and unavoidable.


Sin is a thing and therefore something that was created by the Word of God. God created the game and the game has boundaries. God also created pain and grief, but they are all temporary. They are in the process of "passing away." Ever heard of the term "necessary evil."? That's what the world of choice and cause and effect is all about. If there are no rules there is no game. Simple.



I said that science has proven that homosexuals are NOT incapable of being patriarchs and matriarchs. You seemed to have read what you wanted to read and then went on a useless and shameful tirade.

The fact is that your lord has been found desperately wanting and he claims to be the Word of God mentioned in John 1. As the originator of homosexuality, the Word of God would KNOW that it's not at all tied to psychology, but biology and genetics. He is wrong and that makes him fake. If he didn't claim divinity then it would be fine to make mistakes. If you think you can fill the shoes, by all means try, but when they don't fit step out of them and try on some that fit.

-Sab
_________________
It only ends once everything else is just progress - Jacob, LOST

CHARIKLO SAID

Sab, I think you are confused about Creation.

Obviously BEHAVIOUR is not created. Behaviour is a choice. God created humankind with free choice in a world for which he established circumstances and rules...the laws of physics, as Star Trek's Scottie might say, and all the other scientific facts and functions that keep the world going.

But behaviour? Abstract qualities? No. I think not.