xjwsforChrist

Is it because it is a by-product of Love?

If you mean love of God and Christ, yes, dear At ( peace to you, dear lady!). Because if you love THEM... what do you need courage FOR? What does one have TO fear? Family? But we are to have GREATEST love for Christ than for family, yes? Is it because of persecution? A slave is not greayer than her master and Christ was persecuted... yet did not give up/in.. yes? What about physical harm? We suffer because of our love for him, yes? How about those who would even kill us? Aren't we told by the One we love and have faith in to NOT be in fear of those who can kill the body? And what of death itself/himself? Did Christ not say he had CONQUERED death... and do we not believe that he LIVES and so because of him WE will live... so that we TRULY know that death has NO HOLD on us EITHER?

Given all of that... what do we need courage to be given us FOR? If we have FAITH... what IS the to FEAR? Except maybe the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, Himself?

Yet, we have no reason to fear Christ. If we have faith in HIM... that he IS the image of the Father... what do we have to fear of the Father?

Our fear... if we indeed have fear... is of earthling man. What (we think) HE thinks of us... or can do to us. If this was, say, 500 or more years ago perhaps such fear would be valid. Or if we lived in countries or societies where professing Christ COULD cost our lives.

But most of us here don't. And so fear as to ANYTHING... and particularly things related to our faith in/following of Christ... what others might think of us... is really a slap in the face OF Christ. Because it not only belies our FAITH... but HIS conquering and resurrection.

Because he DIDN'T fear... anyone... or anyTHING... for OUR sakes. So that WE would have no READING to fear, EITHER.

Fear is one of the primary tools of the Adversary, dear one. Remember his challenge: skin IN BE HALF of skin... and ALL a man has he will gave to save HIS (skin/soul/body).

We all, individually and of an age to accept God and Christ... have the invaluable PRIVILEGE of proving that one the liar he is. Being fearful... to the extent we beg off, hide, bury our minas, deny... even blaspheme... proves him NOT to be, at least as to the one who succumbs so.

I hope this helps.

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Hello and peace to you both....

And yes, if " Perfect Love casts aside ALL fear"....therefore you fear NOTHING then I would think its safe to say you are pretty dang courageous.



Fear is one of the primary tools of the Adversary, dear one. Remember his challenge: skin IN BE HALF of skin... and ALL a man has he will gave to save HIS (skin/soul/body).

The " And ALL a man has he will give to save his skin" is huge. We are bombarded daily with all the modern technologies to " tighten, whiten, lift, tuck, suck, dye, extensions, implants, laser, and God only knows how much MORE just to SAVE/PRESERVE this outside garment of ours to try and not age!
We want to hold on to it! And the adversary knows this! It becomes not just our distraction, but our priority over Jah even though CHRIST emphasis to us that the " flesh is of NO use at all."

Thank you for sharing, great thoughts...
Your sister and fellow slave of CHRIST Kim

There is a difference between the fruits and the gifts. A simplified explanation is that gifts are charisms the Holy Spirit writes into human hearts and souls, while fruits are the ways these gifts manifest themselves in our behavior. "Courage" would be included in the gift of "fortitude"; which could be manifested in such fruits as faithfulness, self control, patience, gentleness, and patience. Courage is not synonymous with physical strength; spiritual strength is even more important for a follower of Christ.


(Catechism of the Catholic Church, articles 1830-1832)

May I ask from where/whom does the Catholic catechism get its assertion of the "gifts" of holy spirit, dear GL (peace to you!)? What you quoted does not seem to comport with what Paul shared. You quoted:



Paul, though, wrote:

"There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit  distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

"Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,  to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines."

So I am curious as to the "seven gifts" you state... and the basis for them. From where (or whom, maybe) did this list "originate"... and what happened to, say, [the gift of] healing? What of [the gift of] speaking in [previously] foreign languages (i.e., tongues)? Discerning (hearing/judging between) spirits? Prophesying? Interpreting tongues? The things the early disciples were recorded as GIFTED with the ability to DO... by means of holy spirit?

And what of what Christ said, to both the Prophets AND his apostles and disciples... on MANY occasions: to NOT fear HIM (but to fear the Father)?

I truly am NOT trying to contend but to understand. Because in contrast to what you've shared, I have learned that Christ is actually not to be feared AT ALL... but rather, he is to be LOVED. And WITHOUT fear. As dear 'Mom ( peace, luv! ) shared, "Perfect LOVE cast ALL fear OUTSIDE."

So, can you help me understand the basis for the Catholic catechism's definitions of the gifts... and such to be accurate?

Thank you... and, as ALWAYS, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Okay, thanks for your answers.

The gifts are taken from Isaiah, chapter 11: (NRSV)


Paul enumerated the fruits of the spirit, as you noted. These are compared to undesirable fruits in chapter 5 of Galatians: (<i>ibid</i>)


The relationship of the gifts to the fruits is explained at the end of this chapter. Switching to the eloquent (though less literal) phrasing of the Jerusalem Bible:

I hope this explanation shines some light on the "gifts of the spirit"!

Teach me to obey you,
since you are my God;
may your good spirit guide me
on to level ground. (Psalm 143)

Thank you, dear GL ( again, peace to you!). I think, though, you're confusing the GIFTS of the spirit (which I shared above), which allow members of Christ's to manifest their possession of that spirit to unbelievers so as to show, to those "wishing and thirsting, that God and Christ are IN them ( John 14:23 )... because such ones can only actually do the things such gifts portray by MEANS of the spirit of God Christ IN them (we are just instruments used in the process)... with the OPERATION of holy spirit that is in CHRIST (whom Isaiah was referring to).

We are to fear the MOST HOLY One of Israel... as we would fear a parent we loved and highly regarded (i.e., have great respect and regard for)... but never are we to fear Christ. Again, HE ALWAYS said we are NOT to fear him.

Isn't fearing him, when he said NOT to do so disobeying HIM... since HE said NOT to do it... AS WELL AS disobeying the Father... since HE said we must listen to His Son?

Is not obeying BETTER than sacrificing?

Can you explain a bit further as to why we should take Isaiah ' s words as to Christ's great reverence for/fear of JAH over Christ's words to US... to NOT fear?

Thank you and, as always, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Yes, what is translated here as "the LORD" is the divine name, "YHWH". Most Bible translators follow the Jewish practice of not using the divine name, instead saying "Adonai" ("the LORD"), as a sign of respect.



Yes! "Fear" of the Lord is not fear in the sense of terror, but rather in the sense of awe: respecting his authority and appreciating his care for us, his children. From chapter 8 of Romans: (NRSV)

For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry "Abba! Father!" it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided that we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

It is like the fear I had for my father on earth (may he rest in peace!): a healthy fear rooted in respect for his authority and obedience to his rules, not fear born of terror at the thought of punishment at his hands.

So you're saying fear of GOD (vs. Christ) is a gift of holy spirit, dear GL (peace to you!? If so, that's confusing to me. Why would God need to GIFT us with fearing/revering Him? Wouldn't that mean our "fear" is not from ourselves... OUR love and regard for Him... but something HE controls? If HE controls our "fear" of HIM... how is it a gift (versus a compulsion)?

Even LOVE... which can RESULT in such fear... is not a gift of holy spirit - it is a FRUIT... a PRODUCT... of holy spirit. Fruit in that holy spirit can help us love MORE. To the point of loving EVEN our enemies (which most can't do on their own, particularly Israel).

You also didn't address healing, tongues, etc. Can you clarify how fear/reverence for JAH is a GIFT of holy spirit (perhaps beyond the verses in Isaiah)?

Thank you... and as always, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar