xjwsforChrist

NONI SAID

What if your country suddenly decided to go fully bible based with its laws and way of life? Not just the peace and love of new testament, but the old testament as well. Would you like it and why?

MEDEWTYSENU SAID

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:02 pm Post subject:
No I would not.

The reason is because there would always be those who took the hard line that the Pharisees and Sadduccees of Jesus' day did. They would weigh the people down with burdens they themselves wouldn't even lift a finger to carry. This has been done before and failed miserably because absolute power (in human hands) always corrupts.

In the USA there are those who want this way of life but not to much to promote peace and unity but as a means to oppress. Consider that our Bill of Rights has overthrown many "Bible'based" laws that were interpreted a particular way. Slavery was once legal, as was women not having any rights except those given by their husbands, due process was not part of the legal system nor the right to a speedy trial, attorneys and the list goes on and on.

Too many people have seen what's in the Bible and interpreted it in a certain way, often to the detriment of others because what was looked at was not considered in it's proper context or not followed in the same way.

Consider the Muslim countries as an example, all of whom honor Jesus as a prophet and most say the "People of the Book" (Jews/Christians) are there Brothers and Sisters. Yet life under Sharia law is very harsh with extreme punishments for the slightest thing. Most of the fault lies with the people enforcing these laws. For example if a woman goes around without her head covered she can be prosecuted and whipped for possibly enticing a man to rape her (as stupid as this sounds it's a very real thing). But instead of punishing the rapist or man for a lack of self control, the woman is punished because she chose not to cover her face.

Death threats are issues against people who seemingly disrespect Muhammad. I recall a story a few years ago in which a British teacher who asked her 1st grade class to give their class room bear a name, which they chose Muhammad (the children were all Muslim). Some government officials say this as a sign of disrespect on the teacher's part and death threat were issued against her. No one mentioned that the Muslim children themselves chose the name nor questioned why didn't the parents of said children be held responsible. Instead they laid the blame on someone who isn't Muslim (i.e. didn't understand the seriousness of what she had done) instead of the ones who did understand. The Sharia law seems to be more about stamping out individuality than peace and prosperity among it's adherents, much like the Jewish Priests of the 1st Century.

So no, I would be against it as mankind is not fit to rule over himself and would use any means to oppress their fellowman under a guise of benevolence.

YSandFSofC
Morgan
_________________
"Those that matter don't mind and those that mind don't matter"--Dr. Seuss

TEC SAID

No, I would not.

For one, freedom of religion should also include freedom from religion. All according to the choices that person makes. I would not want someone else's (or any) religion forced upon me, so I cannot do that to someone else. And as Morgan said above, theocracies don't work out so well. The bible (or any holy book) can be interpreted in many different ways... and man, on his own, doesn't get it right. Then it is abused, and people are misled, or treated without mercy... all according to what is within the men in power.

So no, religion and politics don't work out so well. Tend to bring reproach upon God with many of the things they claim to do in 'the name of God'. But He is not seen through religion or theocracies or men... except for the One He appointed: Christ. Who brought a new covenant, for those who hear His call and choose to be part of that covenant. So if one chooses to follow Him, then they are not following the bible or anything written in it, OVER Him. Christ first, all else second. If one WANTS and CHOOSES to follow Him.

*Should also be noted that God gives us the freedom to choose who or what we follow. So what in the world makes men think that they can take that freedom away?

Peace,
tammy

CHARIKLO SAID

Nope. Not me. Definitely not.

Tec says it all, for me.

AGUEST SAID

For me, it would depend, dear Noni (peace to you), primarily on WHY my country would do that, having come FROM such a place formerly. If the overall conduct in my country was turning to one of lawlessness... I am not sure I would have a problem with it, as I believe some people NEED written law (law IS for the lawless, after all). So, if a Bible-based system was the ONLY way to get people to otherwise "love" their fellowman... I can't say that I would have a problem, if the opposite was to either allow others to just kill others and/or willy nilly killing those who do. I mean, since JAH allows the superior authorities to exist in their relative places... and I don't know what HE knows... I cannot say. I am learning not to be a "law-breaker" anyway, so I am not sure how much it would affect me.

Or, if it was fully and accurately UNDERSTOOD, then, again, I am not sure I would have a problem. MOST under the Law Covenant as a means to look at and judge OTHERS... rather than at oneself and "judgment" of oneself, as to where oneself does not "measure up." It was NEVER to be a means to judge others... but due to their hardened hearts, Israel could not SEE that. It was merely a means for each to know what it meant to transgress... against ANOTHER, including God... rather than be concerned as one transgressions AGAINST them. And it's "fulfillment" was in SURPASSING it, not worrying about trespasses agains it. Surpassing it by means of love... which granted mercy and forgiveness. Israel missed this point... as do most who "use" the Bible, today.

If you don't have the Law written on your HEART... HOW do you know when YOU transgress it? Only by looking at it written on stone/paper. But the intent was for each one to look at it as to himself/herself... and not others. And so, for those who couldn't SEE that... Christ came to SHOW them. Which is the ONLY thing folks should be getting out of the NEW Testament. Unfortunately, due to their own blindness... some simply transferred their hardened hearts... which caused them to miss the point of the OT... to missing the point of the NT.

If, therefore, it is fomented simply because those who walk by sight need to hypocritically control their fellowman by putting them "under Law"... and simply wish to use that Law as a means to "lord it over," "point the finger" "bear false witness," "judge"... and ultimately "condemn" their fellow man... which is what the Bible has largely been used to do since it was first canonized (and I don't mean just the NT... going all the way back to Moses, which is why the MOST Holy One of Israel condemned Israel's misuse of the Law way back when - Isaiah 58-59)... then I don't think ANYONE would... or should... want that.

So, my response would be... it depends. Sorry, but my "lawyer" training says that that is the best answer for ME.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

NONI SAID

MedewtySenu wrote:

n


Do you believe in any form of govenrment at all or are you an anarchist?

PTERIST SAID

Definately not.
As Christians we don't need a religion to legislate laws to be " good" never mind a Government. Legalism has been proven to fail to change our Adamic nature within, it is the ministery of the Holy Spirit where we live NOW in the KOG as we await for the eternal and final state of "new heavens and new earth" . Wherever and whatever that maybe.
Pluralism seems to be the best conditions in a "carnal" world where there are laws and regulation to control the Sociey for the safety and good of all, and allow people to practice their religion.
There are some Christian groups that believe they must produce certian "conditions" in the political world to speed up the return of "Christ" based on a Post-Millennium view. This view lost much of its interest in the after math of two world wars where it showed moral conditions were not getting better. Even with the shift in America to mostly PRE-Millennium views, political involvement is sill seen as necessary. All one needs to do is look at Europe and the control of the RCC to see what a "carnal" theocracy is like. I have lived through such a church run society, and its not a pretty picture.
"My kingdom is NOT part of this world" Father, my prayer is not to take them out of the world, but to protect them from evil". We are compelled to be NO PART of WORLDLY WAYS .....which are works of the FLESH, "Adamic Nature"
My we be blessed by his indwelling presence "Divine Nature" to display his life in us to a dying world.
Shalom
_________________
Shalom

CHARIKLO SAID

When organisations etc call themselves Bible-based, in my totally subjective view, it's often a cover-all term for something very restrictive, discriminatory and really rather unrecognisable as anything to do with Christ's teachings.

Government shouldn't be involved with religion, though ideally it will include some of the most ethical principles.

In a multicultural, multi-faith society like Britain, equal regard and respect should be shown to all faiths and none. Here, large sections of the population are Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, pagan etc.

I'm happy with that mix and believe that everyone of all faiths and none should feel that the law and government affords them security and respect.

AGUEST SAID

Quote:
As Christians we don't need a religion to legislate laws to be " good" never mind a Government.


I don't think the Bible... or the laws of the OT... are FOR christians, though, dear PT (good day and peace to you!). Again, laws... are for the lawLESS. Those who are TRULY christians live by the TRUE Law of God... the law of LOVE... which is the OLD Law's fulfillment.

But... what of those who are NOT christians? By that I mean (1) those who may CALL themselves such, but by their "fruits" prove otherwise; and (2) those who do not call themselves such... and who do not do BY NATURE the "things OF the Law" (and so, I am not meaning all who are not christians, but those who live in opposition of love, whether they call themselves such or not).

Contray to the belief of many, indeed MOST... there really aren't that many christians in the world. Never has been. We are the minority - the "remnant." Because while many are CALLED to be christians, few are CHOSEN to be.

What then, of those who DO need religion to legislate laws in order to be "good"? Those who MUST be "under men in charge"? I know we'd all like to think that such folks don't exist, but many things suggest otherwise. Yes, it would be better if they could do it themselves... or do it simply by means of secular government. What, though, of those who CAN'T... without some "fear of God" melarkey to MAKE them?

Not saying that's the case. Just asking.

Again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

NONI SAID

pterist wrote:


What about those who don't believe in god, do they need religious laws to be "good"? What if I said I was an atheist? Do you think I must be made to believe in god in order to be "good"? What if I told you I was an atheist that gives to charity, gives my time to my community and obeys the law of the land as best as I could? Would I still need god in my life to be a "good" person/citizen?


TEC Said:


Do you believe that everyone should be allowed to choose if they believe in god or not? What if I said I was an atheist? Do you think I must be made to believe in god in order to be "good"?

PTERIST SAID

Greetings Aguest,
I don't understand what you are asking me, sorry.
If you are asking me, my opinion on a Bibical Theoracy for everyone else (other than "spirit led" Christian) in this country, my answer would be no.

Man made Theocracies are a tyranny in other countries by way of comparison as are cults like the WBTS. I believe the founding fathers here in USA, got it righ, no state religion, laws based on a Judeo Christian society and freedom to practice your religion and NO religion within these laws and guide lines for the "good of all"
if the Father wants to call people out of symbolic, Egypt, Babylon, fleshly Israel, they are transferred into the Kingdom of his dear son, now. Not my position to judge those who do not respond and live under the "beastly powers" of man made governments.

_________________
Shalom

PTERIST SAID

***What about those who don't believe in god, do they need religious laws to be "good"?***

I'm not saying society does not need laws to control them for the good of all, what I am saying they will NOT and CAN NOT conform to RELIGIOUS LAWS ie Christain Spiritual Laws because of their Adamic nature, that belongs to the New Birth in Christ.
_________________
Shalom

AGUEST SAID

Do you believe that everyone should be allowed to choose if they believe in god or not?

I realize that you've addressed dear tec, dear Noni (peace to you, both!), but I would like to respond to that from MY POV and say that I absolutely DO believe that... else where IS freedom... TRULY... if your freedom of CHOICE is removed?



I don't. I believe that some people "do by nature the things of God." I would like to ask YOU, though... and any other atheists here, because based on a few certain atheists I have come to know I don't think this is the case:

Do YOU think I must be made NOT to believe in God... in order to be "good"?

Because I AM a believer. And, apparently, that isn't a "good" thing to some folks... and so, by connection, neither am I. I look forward to your response.

Again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

PTERIST SAID

***Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:16 pm Post subject: Would you like your country to be a bible base theocracy?
What if your country suddenly decided to go fully bible based with its laws and way of life? Not just the peace and love of new testament, but the old testament as well. Would you like it and why?****

Will you be the first one out there to throw the first stone ?
Will we stone people to death ?
_________________
Shalom

PTERIST SAID

****What if I told you I was an atheist that gives to charity, gives my time to my community and obeys the law of the land as best as I could? Would I still need god in my life to be a "good" person/citizen? ***

You would be probably be a better person than me, however, thats not what Christianity is all about, I don't have a "goodness" righteousness of my own and definately don't have the one that's needed to be in the presence of a Holy God ........I have accepted a "goodness" "righteousness" from someone else as a free gift !!!
_________________
Shalom