xjwsforChrist

YPPUPLLEH SAID

We've been here before and as before I will still say that I do not agree with this fire and water thing
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...

TEC SAID

That's it.

To the moon with you!



Love you,
tammy

ZOE SAID


Where do you get this information about cremation destroying the spirit?
To me that doesn't make sense.
God could take your spirit/soul/personality and reproduce it in a new body or form couldn't he?
What about people burned accidently or in a disaster, is it an oops sorry you are out of luck thing?

I don't agree with this one at all for now at least

ZOE SAID

I reread what was said again, this is all news to me. Very startling actually, but still wondering how we can be sure of this. I don't intend to be cremated but some people close to me have been. They didn't like the thought of rotting away in the ground.

I guess its still better than having no hope at all like being an atheist.
I hope there is something else after we die, but nothing we can do about it. It is nice to have hope and faith but there are so many different understandings it really is a personal thing I would think.

PSACRAMENTO SAID

I think that for the spirit to be killed, it requires the complete vaporization of matter and even cremation doesn't do that, all that is lift is ash/dust, which is befitting of "ashes to ashes dust to dust" and "dust you were and dust you will become".
Yes in a thermonuclear explosion or any thermo explosion, vaporization DOES happen.
But it is my understanding that the fire that kills the spirit is the fire sent by God to a condemned spirit.
Not, "regular fire".
The warning in Matthew is to fear WHO sends that fire, not the fire per say.
IMO.

AGUEST SAID

Good morning and peace to you all!

Well, what occurred with dear tec (loss of a long post) just occurred with me! And for some reason my "trick" didn't work - I went to post but the log-in request came up. So, I back-clicked (which usually takes me back to my post BEFORE clicking preview/submit) but this time the screen "glitched"... and took me back 2-3 steps. And so... my post was lost.

And I am "sick" about it... because it was a lot.

Sigh. I will try to repost it later, but I just don't have the energy to do so, right now, sorry. The first one took a lot out of me and I need to regenerate for a bit.

I would like to share with you how what I received ended, though, to perhaps help you have a... mmmmmm... well, the only word that comes to my mind is "proper", but I feel some might take issue with that word, so let's say... "better"... perspective:

The Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... IS merciful. If you are one who professes to belong to Christ know this more than any others... because of the mercy shown to YOU. Indeed, most of YOU are merciful, as your comments and inability to "accept" this truth just yet shows. If YOU are merciful, surely you can "see" that JAH is, if for no other reason than seeing Christ - that One was merciful... even to asking forgiveness for his enemies.

He, Christ, said that he did nothing of his own initiative, but just as he saw the Father doing/was taught by the Father... HE did. And we have His dealings with Israel. And so, on at least three grounds (ourselves, Christ, and the mercy shown Israel), we can be ASSURED that JAH... IS... merciful. And so we can have FAITH... ASSUREDLY expect... that what WE hope for... for ANY who have died... WILL occur. Because we have EVIDENCE to support our faith. Right?

What we DON'T want to do, however, at least those of us who belong to Christ (or wish to)... is attribute unrighteousness to the MOST Holy One of Israel. And to withhold mercy from those who deserve it would be unrighteouness, would it not?

Just because we don't understand HOW mercy might be shown so that these are resurrected, doesn't mean it WON'T. Nor does it mean we need to KNOW how. That need to know, though, that "worrying"... is tricky. Because it can cause US to attribute unrighteousness to the Most Holy One of Israel... IN OUR HEARTS... if not with our mouths. Yes? Yet, it is our hearts... which can be treacherous... that He examines. Yes?

So, rather than worrying about what we don't understand in full yet, perhaps we should let our love for... and faith IN... a God that IS merciful... "comfort" us for now.

The mercy shown US... and OUR faith in the One(s) who've shown it to us... should tell us that ALL those who DESERVE mercy will be SHOWN mercy.

I don't want to leave it at that contrite statement, though. So, let me leave you with this:

There are laws in both the spirit realm AND the physical realm. ALL can be broken, but some not so easily. What some of us may not quite understand (but many scientist do, but perhaps not to the full extent)... is that the energy used to CREATE... is the same energy used to DESTROY. Adham was only ONE man created at the time, his form from the dust, but his spirit directly from JAH.

For those who ask, "Why can't JAH just recreate them?"... meaning those whose spirits may have perished (and there aren't a lot, dear ones, because for most... SOME bone/teeth... remained)... the amount of energy it would take to recreate THEM (meaning more than the one)... could be detrimental to all others.

It is okay to try and understand the whys and hows of these things; however, in doing so, one should really endeavor to guard one's heart. One can do that by accepting that just because WE don't know the DETAILS doesn't mean JAH is unrighteousness. Truly, it doesn't. It just means we don't understand... yet.

I will try to repost what I did initially at some later point. Really... it was a LOT. And I am very frustrated, right now.

Dear tec (peace to you, luv!)... is there a way to extend the timing-out? I know that if there is you will find it. I looked but it didn't seem like a function that could be changed. I hope I'm wrong... because it was quite irritating this time - LOLOLOL! Okay, I'm [almost] over it - LOLOLOL!

Peace, dear ones... and please, guard your hearts!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

ZOE SAID

PaulS, your explanation is what I think too and what many Christians I know of have said. That is why I asked where this totally new idea came from.

I also must have missed the meaning of baby teeth? Does that mean your baby teeth are somewhere out there and your spirit could be retrieved from them? That seems very far out but I am open to new ideas.
I watched the first Stargate movie last week with my husband and thought it to be a really cool concept. A lot of ideas and objects from star trek shows we thought were fantasy have become reality.

So never say never

AGUEST SAID



I would think it would, dear Zoe (peace to you!), in the same way that bones are "somewhere out there." If the life is in the blood... and the blood speaks... and marrow makes blood... and so it is the blood (life) in the marrow (in the bones) that "call" to JAH for these... and the pulp of baby teeth are of the same/similar substance... why wouldn't the "life" in these also "call" to Him?

If, as the David said, he could not even hide from JAH in Sheol (the World of the Dead), for JAH is there also... where COULD one hide from Him? I don't think anyone can. He WILL find them. So what if it's only by means of a small, tiny even, tooth?

We have to stop trying to "see" JAH... as we "see" ourselves. WE are limited. Both in our abilities... and our understanding. HE... is not.

Dear ones, those who participate in the second resurrection are NOT resurrected to spirits. They are resurrected to FLESH... THEN, for SOME (those who are resurrected to life, vs. judgment)... to spirit. It is those who benefit from the FIRST resurrection are resurrected straight to spirit bodies (which is one of the FEATURES of the first resurrection - those who die in union with Christ are not SUBJECT to the Judgment).

For those resurrected in the second, though, JAH does not recreate them from scratch. If you need something to help you "see" this... look to Ezekiel's vision of the resurrection: no new bodies made there. Just bones that already existed having life breathed back into them.

Or... ask the One who has been granted to know... and reveal... all of these things, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH. In the meantime, though, try to guard your heart regarding this matter. It could be really important that you do.

Again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

SA

CHARIKLO SAID

I've only just come to this thread, and have read through everything that is here.

As others have said, this is a completely new concept to me, but it's interesting as I have always had an instinctive dislike of cremation. However, my parents, at their wish were each cremated, and I do not like to think of them being totally destroyed.

I do find it hard to think that the spirit is tied to any small part of the body. I thought that would be so whole there is life in the body, but when that. Body dies, the spirit would go into the spiritual world, spiritual realm which I kind of understand/understood as something akin to a different. Dimension. I don't mean dimension, in a physical sense, but I can't find the word I want.

I am not disputing, just wondering.

Nor can I find the original thread on or mention of this. Please can someone post a link?

I'm puzzled about the log-in problems mentioned. I haven't experienced any problems at all. I never get timed out. I use Firefox on my PC, and both Safari and Chrome on my iPad and iPhone. All seem to work for me.

Just in case it helps.

TEC SAID




Zoe, I was bothered very much by the same thing that bothered you in your earlier post. But when I was asking how this could be... surely, God would not allow people to be lost like that... I heard two things. The first I shared a long time ago:

- None who belong to God will be lost. Not a one of them. The spirit of those who belong to Christ are under the altar; nothing can touch or harm them.


- To those whose spirit might not be under the altar, I had asked how it might be that they are not lost in the case of cremation or explosion or whatever, and I was reminded of baby teeth. It would not matter how scattered or small (perhaps even microscopic) these might be.

Now as I understand it, these above are the only ones who receive a resurrection to life:

- those who belong to Christ at the first resurrection (those who are dead and those who are alive at His return)

-those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life, at the second resurrection. (who are those who did not belong to him as His Body... who might not have known him... but who are known BY Him. The sheep.)

The first cannot be harmed, as stated. Their spirits are underneath the altar. And if one's name is written in the lamb's book of life, then I see no way for someone or something to be able to blot that name out and overrule Christ - since He has been given all authority. God also sees and hears deeper than we do, when it comes to blood, bones, marrow, stem cells, whathaveyou. ("the blood of your brother Abel is crying out to me") So while something might look dry/dead/gone... He can see more than we can, even with all of our tools... to the spirit and life 'beneath'.


Beyond these two above, one thing to always remember:

God also has mercy upon whomever He chooses to have mercy, as is His providence. And we do not have a higher concept of mercy than Him - as Shelby explained in her last post.

Much peace and love to you (and to you all)

tammy

ZOE SAID

Thank you for the responses. I hear and know that JAH is all powerful, just and not to question him. I was taught that same thing for everything I didn't understand about things when I was growing up as a JW child.

I wasn't challenging JAH, I was asking how we know for sure that this cremation information is what he has told us and where did he say this to us.

TEC SAID

Zoe, you absolutely CAN question God. And Christ. Abraham did, and Abraham was called a friend of God. No one had the right to ever tell you that you could not do this. Christ is there to answer and to teach... questions tend to be encouraged by teachers; not slapped down.

So please do not think that anyone here meant to tell you not to question, or that you were challenging God by asking questions.

Peace to you,
tammy

AGUEST SAID


Please, dear Zoe (peace to you!), do NOT think I mean to imply that JAH can't be questioned, not at all! My sincere apologies if that's what you took from what I posted. I was only saying that we have to be careful in our hearts what we attribute to Him! For instance, JWs believe that anyone who is not a JW will be destroyed at Armageddon - where, though, is the righteousness in that... for, say, little children?

My point was that sometimes we don't understand something and fall to thinking that if it's TRUE, then there's something wrong with JAH, that He IS unrighteous. When that can never be.

I did offer that any who were having trouble should ask (I THINK I did!)... and so that should help any see that I absolutely believe one can question JAH. One can question Christ AND JAH. I have/do. And as dear tec (peace to you, too!) brought out... so did Moses, Abraham, and surely others.

I hope this clarifies and, again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

SA

ZOE SAID

Thank you so much for clarifying things with me BUT
I wasn't questioning God or Christ, I was questioning where you got your understanding about the Fire destroying the spirit from. LOL, thats all I wanted to know.
Siincere question.

AGUEST SAID


Quote:
I wasn't questioning God or Christ, I was questioning where you got your understanding about the Fire destroying the spirit from


Yes, I understand, dear Zoe (peace to you, dear one!). I wanted to try and repost what my Lord gave me yesterday... and unfortunately I can't just yet... if ever (I will explain below). What I can share is a bit of a summary of what it was all related to (not necessarily in this order but as I remember it), as follows:

- The Flood (why water and not fire)

- The fire of Sodom/Gomorrah (why fire and not, say, conquering by
some warring faction, as often occurred with Israel/others)

- Where the Adversary came from (and will be returned to)

- Why Nebuchanezzar tried to burn Daniel and boys with such a HOT fire

- HOW Daniel and his companions were able to survive that fire, which
was SO hot the men OUTSIDE were burned to death

- Why fire will be used to "cleanse" the heavens and the earth

- Why fire will be used to destroy Gog and Magog

- Why Satan, the false prophet, the wild beast, and those judged are
hurled into the Lake of Fire (versus just being rid of them by some
other means)

- Why the Holocaust - why Hitler used fire to try and completely wipe out
the Jews (it wasn't simply his idea; it was put in his mind and heart and
for a VERY good reason! See http://www.chabad.org/library/article_c ... mation.htm)

- Why Jehovah's Witnesses were caught up in that

- Why Joseph's bones were returned to Canaan (versus left in Egypt)

- Why, when mentioning the second resurrection, John saw the sea,
death, and Hades give up the dead in them (which would all be bones),
but did not see spirits given up

- Why Legion was sent into swine, then the swine into water (vs. just
dying then and there)

- Why, when seeing the second resurrection, Ezekiel saw dry bones

- Why the "whole burnt offering"

- Why Elijah had the Baal priests utterly drench their piles before
fire consummed both the piles AND the men who built them

- What the "four winds" that will be unleashed are

- That the enery used to create... is the SAME energy used to destroy...
and both are subject to laws that, if not recognized/adhered
to/properly utilized... can have a devastating effect... on the physical
AND spirit realms

- How those "in" New Jerusalem are protected from the fire that "comes
down out of heaven" and destroys Gog and Magog


And more.

The truth, though, is that fire is much more than we think it is... and has purposes beyond what WE use them for. It is a form of energy that feeds on other forms of energy. WE are forms of energy, our bodies... and MUCH more so, our SPIRITS. OUR fire (what we normally experience on earth) is very low on the scale of fire in the physical universe and certainly in the spirit realm (although our atomic/nuclear "fire" is much more! Even so, NO fire HERE, not even from our sun or a larger star... compares to the energy that exists in the spirit realm, not even close).

As you can see... it was a lot. So I have to ask your patience, please. I was really BUMMED when I lost the post. And I am also not sure why (was I supposed to share it all openly?) because that had never happened before (here) and I had JUST shared with dear tec (peace to you, luv!) how NOT to lose a post... and then lost one although using the very steps I had shared.

AND... for some reason it's not flowing right back to me (as it usually does). So I am trying to hear whether I was/am SUPPOSED to post it, at all. And there is one more thing that is driving that:

When I posted, I included a statement that said I could not post scriptures/verses this time because those who truly wanted to know needed to go to my Lord and ask him... and HE would show them where it is written. He said that that was because those who did would find answers to other questions they had. I then included a piece of wisdom I learned from a children's book when I was young:

"Often times the search proves more profitable than the goal."

I learned from my Lord that this meant, although I might have finding a very large diamond as the goal of my search, it could be that all of the LITTLE gems I found and gathered along the way would add up to MUCH more in value than that ultimate diamond.

BUT... I did not stick to that. I started including scriptures and verses... because I thought folks wouldn't believe me and say I was making it all up and then leaving them hanging. And so I put my fear... before my Lord's voice.

And THAT was why I was SO bummed-out about this particular thread (and I apologize to dear tec for trying to make it sound like I was bummed out about the forum features. I mean, I was... but I was also mad at myself; I just didn't understand that at the time). I was mad... well... greatly disappointed in myself... because... I didn't do "just so".

For probably the first time since I have been allowed to share in this way... I put myself first. And I did that... because I let some recent "challenges"... regarding what I hear and from Whom... dictate to me, instead of letting my Lord do that. I was... well, afraid, is the only accurate word... that if I didn't include the verses folks HERE would think I was making it up... and so not put faith in my Lord and go to HIM. Even perhaps begin new "challenges."

I should have known better, of course, but, well... that's what fear does, doesn't it? Cause our love to... lessen. For our fellowman AND for Christ (so that we don't listen and do just so!). I think I understand more now, how Moses (after his error at Meribah) and Peter (after his denial of our Lord) might have felt.

I should have listened to him... TRUSTED him... put FAITH in him... and posted it as he told me to. Sigh.

If he allows me to, I will repost it. Until then, this is all I can share. I hope it helps.

Again, peace to you ALL!

YOUR servant, as I AM servant to the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... and a slave of Christ... who will try to NEVER forget that again, no matter what man puts upon me...

SA