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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:27 pm 
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CHARIKLO SAID

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:42 pm Post subject:
That's true, Shelby, I have seen it with bricks but I'm thinking now especially of dry stone walls...I'm not sure if you have anything like it...they're in various parts of Britan but especially in the north. The walls are built as they sound, just of dry stones, no earth, no mortar, nothing to hold them in place, jjst each one fitting, apparently irregularly very often, and the wall as firm as can be, lasting for over a thousand years in many places.

That analogy of the stones really resonates with me.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:27 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

Yes, yes, dear Char (peace!)... I know just what you mean! The same process, just no mud/cement - the pieces MUST fit and so the master layer knows just which ones! GREAT analogy, thanks!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:27 pm 
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LOZ SAID

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject:
Yes and as Peter describes "you yourselves also as LIVING stones are being built up a spiritual house " (caps mine) so living stones chosen or shaped to fit....linking nicely to "As the clay in the hand of the potter, so you are in my hand O Israel" Jeremiah 18:6... Wonderful stuff isn't it?

Lots more to ponder re 'marriage' in every sense . Thank you Shelby for your findings....leave them with me if you will...

Loz x


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:28 pm 
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CHARIKLO SAID

And Christ as the corner stone.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:28 pm 
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JUSTMOM SAID

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Who is that "father" and "mother"? You all know I did not know... and so had to ask. And what I received is it is NOT our fleshly parents at all! Rather, the "father" was the OLD Law... and the "mother" was "Babylon the Great" (well, her "daughters" - those "women"... religions)... that we once belonged to! There were/are surrogates for a time... until the time our heavenly Father appointed for us... for our ADOPTION... by Him and by our TRUE "mother"... Jerusalem Above.









Great point about "Us" leaving our Father (the old law) and Mother (a harlot) The surrogate part comes in in Galatians 4:1-7
"As long as the heir is a babe he does not differ at all from a slave, lord of all things though he is, but he is under men in charge (father/mother/ law/religion)and under stewards until the day HIS Father appointed beforehand. Likeswise, when we were babes, continued enslaved by the elementary things belonging to the world. But when the full time arrived, God sent forth his Son, who came to be out a woman and who came to be under law, that he might release by purchase those under law, that we might in turn receive the adoption as sons. Therefore we are no longer slaves but Sons."

Galatians 3:23-25 "Before THE FAITH arrived we were being guarded under law, that was a tutor leading to Christ. Now that THE FAITH has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor."

Love justmom


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:28 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

Yes, to both (peace!). So many try to replicate God's temple via handmade structures and edifices. They don't understand that the handmade (the tabernacle in Sinai and the temple at Jerusalem) is GONE... and that even so, there were only replicas of something SPIRITUAL, a city/temple built of PEOPLE! JAH had to have the temple built because Israel showed themselves to be a people who walked by SIGHT, not by FAITH (well, apparently not by sight, either... as they soon forgot what they saw with their eyes - the plagues, etc. - before and just after leaving Egypt!)... and so they needed something to LOOK at.

The NEW "Jerusalem"... the City of DOUBLE peace and Bride of Christ... is made of people... and so something Solomon could not have constructed.

I am overjoyed, truly, that you dear ones not only have "ears" to hear... but "eyes" to SEE... these truths... although they are not "beheld" (i.e., we cannot literally see the temple [of people] with the eyes of our FLESH - cannot "behold" it! We WILL see it, though, when it is complete... when "New Jerusalem"... 'comes down out of heaven'... when, after having been joined to our Lord in spiritual marriage... his kingdom co-rule begins!

My goodness... what a SIGHT! If you want a CLUE as to how that will look, picture, if you can... the "assembly" mentioned at Job 1:6 and 2:1. In that vision, only the angels were present. In the TRUE temple... both they AND full Bride will be present!

You might only be able to see a "shadow" of that event, true, but a shadow is better than nothing, is it not... for the "blind"? Because it gives HOPE... to such ones! (Revelation 3:17, 18)

Again, peace to you all!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:29 pm 
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LOZ SAID

Yes Char, he is and "chosen, precious with God"
Excellent references there Just Mom. It also made me think of Ps 27 "In case my own father and my own mother did leave me, even Jah himself would take me up" v10.

I really must find a better bible app my eyes are struggling with small print in my paper bibles!

Loz x


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:29 pm 
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TEC SAID

You ladies have been busy with the Spirit today

I feel this as well. I have not asked yet, but I hear the truth in it. It's kind of 'itching' to get out, and I'm sitting here putting it off... (does that make sense?)

I loved the brick laying analogy (both of them).

just want to add that i am so glad that some are able to feel safe enough to let the spirit within them 'bubble up' and overflow.

Peace to you all,
tammy


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:30 pm 
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LOZ SAID

Perfect sense Tammy.

Loz x


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:30 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

Hola, dear tec... and peace to you... and you, too, dear 'Mom! and THANK you for that!

All I can say is... wow... where two or more ARE gathered in his name... WOW!

Peace to you all!

Your servant and fellow slave of Christ,

SA


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:30 pm 
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LOZ SAID

My goodness... what a SIGHT! If you want a CLUE as to how that will look
I've had a taste of how that will feel Shelby. It truly will be something extraordinary.

Loz x


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:31 pm 
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LARSINGER SAID

Good comments. I think this crowd is a little more reflective than most. I don't expect everyone to grasp this, but the foundation of linking Satan with the "woman and her seed" has a strong foundation in Satan's pre-Satanic angelic identity in heaven. The root of that is the image of the two "covering cherubs" on the Ark of the Covenant. So first, perhaps we would note that there are only two covering cherubs, and then note that Satan is called one of them:

Ezk 28:14 says of Satan: "You are the anointed cherub that is covering, and I have set you. On the holy mountain of god you proved to be."

The Ark of the Covenant represents holy Mount Zion, on top of which Satan was put in a special capacity with one other angel, of course, the chief angel, Michael. Thus these two angels have a special, temple relationship of holiness with Jehovah. We could thus say that Satan was the #2 angel in all the universe and certainly the most beautiful.

Now we look closer and note the two angels that are "covering", that is, whose wings meet each other to cover the ark, are represented on the temple curtains. These are two different images that alternate, one being of a palm tree, which is considered a feminine image. Had the two angelic cherubs been generalized images, there would have been only one general image of the cherbs. But these are two specific angels, Michael and for a lack of a proper name, I'll call him/her "Lucifer", the angel of light.

Now note at this point, that the "church" who become Christ's bride, become God's temple and serve him on Mount Zion in his place of holiness. A place made vacant when Satan was kicked out. But also note the very close relationship between the church and Christ is called a marriage. He is said to be one with the church and to be married to the church. So the CONTEXT is well established, as unpallatable at first is the idea that Christ was married before and certainly to an angel who became Satan. But remember, Satan was the most beautiful angel in all of heaven before his rebellion, so what more appropriate bride type would have been more appropriate? Why wouldn't God makes Christ companion and bride.

the next verse of significance would be verse 11 where it says of Satan: "You are sealing up a pattern..." What does that mean? A "pattern"? Then it also mentions "In Eden, the garden of God, you proved to be."

This angel of who became a pattern, appeared in Eden. Thus the pattern of this angel could be said to be in Eden. What pattern? Christ and his bride, "Luciferia" (still sounds evil, huh?) were a pattern for things in creation. Christ was the Sun. His wife, the moon, reflecting Christ's glory, but also beautiful. In Eden, the tree of life was the pattern after Christ, who gives life. The tree of knowledge was the pattern for Lucifer. But also, Adam, from whom comes life, was the pattern of Christ/Michael. And Eve, the pattern for his wife, his woman, who was Satan. So the "pattern" of Satan in the garden of Eden was that of Eve, the most beautiful woman on earth to match the beauty of Satan in heaven. But again, a very consistent pattern here is that Eve was the wife of Adam. They were very close. Also keeping in mind that the pattern representing Satan on the temple curtains was the palm tree, which is a feminine figure, again suggesting the two angels are male and female.

Then, we get to the point of creation. Maybe Satan was the second angel created! Why not? As in the case of Adam, where God found it was not good for him to be alone and created a helper, perhaps Satan was first created as well to be the companion and mate to Christ. The two of them, therefore, along with Jehovah, witnessed the creation of all other angels and the universe.

This sheds light, as well on what God said at the time of man's creation, which was: "Let us make man in our image....male and FEMALE he created them." Since we established that Satan was a "pattern" for what was in Eden, we can understand, again, that God must have been speaking with Christ and Satan present. Thus Adam and Eve, male and female, were based on the pattern of the two covering cherubs, who at one point were male and female, husband and wife.

But now, getting to Genesis 3:15. We find everybody failing in Eden from the Serpent to Eve and Adam and Satan, but Christ is the one who remained faithful. But he was there! He had a vested interest in all of this. So when Satan took the opportunity, out of hate and jealousy to kill mankind, someone whom Jesus clearly had fallen in love with and thus the reason why his next wife would be from those of mankind, Chirst would have been quite upset. God looked at the situation and made pronouncements for all the principals, as I noted above: The three visible principals, the snake, Eve and Adam, and two invisible ones. To Christ God merely said he would cause enmity between he and his followers and Satan and his rebels. Only he calls Satan and his followers the "woman and her seed." This only reflects that, particularly in the case of Eden, the role and pattern of Satan was that of Christ's woman or wife, once on Holy Mount Zion, now cast out.

So this is where the generic "divorce" comes in. When God said he would put enmity between Satan and Christ and between each's perspective followers, that was a pronouncement of divorce. In the meantime, Christ, who had fallen in love with mankind, would marry the "church", the 1,440,000 chosen to become his bride. They would serve with him on Mount Zion where Satan had been, essentially replacing Satan in this place of holiness, but also replacing Satan as Christ's closest companion and bride.

That's the best I can do. Holy things and sacred and occult things are not always able to be grasped by everyone. So if some still cannot follow this, that's fine. Everyone doesn't need to know, as is called, "the deep things of Satan."

Satan being the ex-wife of Jesus is something for those who can pick that up and take it to the next level. If not, then just leave it there.

This is not a point I will dogmatize. I'm more than happy to suggest: "I wonder if the "woman and her seed" mentioned in Genesis 3:15 is a reference to Satan and his rebels? Any thoughts?"

thanks for sharing and reflecting.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:31 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

Interesting comments, dear Lar (peace to you!)... but you're overlooking some very important pieces:

The two cherubs represent BeliJah'El (known as Satan and Devil) and Mischa'El (Michael), yes. Both were (and one still is) angels of the Ark... or... arkangels. They were created as a pair... identifical twins. And breathtakingly beautiful (the only two seraphs who are, and so because of their position - upon the "cover").

What you miss, however, is that "cover" - and what... or rather who... that is, what it represents. You miss this because of your belief that Michael and Christ are one and same. But that is not true and by means of this belief, however, you are actually disregarding the "propitiatory"... and thus Christ. He is the "propitiatory" sacrifice, whose blood "covers" our sins.

The purpose of the "cherubs", dear one, was to protect the 'propitiatory'. Guard it. Hence, they were supposed to keep their faces TOWARD that Cover... "stand fast" ON it. Michael did and still does (hence, my Lord said of him, "I have no one to come to my aid EXCEPT Michael, the Prince of you people."); however, the other (BeliJah'El) did not, which is why my Lord said of HIM, "That one did not stand FAST in the truth." Christ is the Truth, dear one (John 14:6)... and it was in (union with) HIM that BeliJah'El did not "stand fast."

The Cover, Christ... is what protects what's IN the Ark: the seed (of the Woman)... which will one day become his Bride.

The Ark... is the womb of "Sarah"... Jerusalem Above... the spirit realm... from whence the seed CAME... and the "place" in which it is "fertilized" and "conceived." Her womb is represented by a COVENANT... the new covenant by means of which JAH grants LIFE to those "in" it.

And that is why the Ark [of the Covenant]... and the NEW Covenant... are so important. Way back when, the present of the Ark represented God's presence with Israel. It served as a PROTECTION for Abraham's seed, Israel. TODAY... the "Ark" [of the NEW] Covenant... is what allows Christ, the Cover, to protect US, the seed that will become his Bride... once we are born... AGAIN.

Until then, we must enter into and remain in that "Ark", the New Covenant, in order to avoid being devoured by our Adversary (who is seeking like a lion TO devour us). Outside of that Ark/Covenant, protection is not guaranteed. It only INSIDE that safety is CERTAIN.

It is like a City of Refuge, a "sanctuary"... a safe haven... INSIDE the Ark [of the NEW] Covenant, the contents of which (the seed of the Woman) are PROTECTED by the "propitiatory" (Cover, that is Christ)... who WAS guarded by two cherubs, only one of which now remains in that position.

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

SA

It really is that simple, dear one


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:32 pm 
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LARSINGERS SAID

AG: Thanks for that reflection. I can see you have given this a lot of detailed consideration, that's rare.
_________________
The Bible is true and God is alive!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:32 pm 
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CHARIKLO SAID

That is a deep and interesting reflection, AGuest.

Lars, I like your signature line, the Bible is true, and God is alive, and yet, you know, I can only respond, well of course God is alive, because he was and is and will be, he is the fundamental factor underlying everything, he was before anything and is throughout eveerything and always will be.

I also see the same as Shelby, that you miss the basic fact that Jesus and Michael are not the same person.

Shelby, I am also interested in your careful enunciation of archangel as ark-angel, because I realise and understand that you are well aware of the etymology of arch-angel, arch carrying the meaning of chief, and yet you have ark-angel and relate them to the ark.

This is indeed interesting. Profound. However, for me, important though these things may be, the basic underlying fundamental truth is of God's love for us expressed and actualised in the overwhelming, over-arch-ing, if you like, propitiatory sacrifice that Jesus Christ, God's Son, through whom everything was made that was made, fulfilled in giving his life for us, in dying and conquering death. This is so very very deep that people like the Watchtower miss it, and create explanations that reduce and almost trivialise what is, in fact, beyond the fulness of human comprehension, though we can and do get glimpses of understanding at various times.

It is precisely because we are human, and reaching towards divine truths, that these differences arise.

For myself, I believe all this complexity of rich and glorious truth is contained in the simple fact of God's great Love for us. A lifetime of contemplating that would not encompass it, and yet, by living our daily lives in the knowledge that it is so, we can indeed go about our daily lives, enjoying and sharing in all the little things as best we can, and it is enough.


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