xjwsforChrist

AGUEST SAID

The physical/spiritual construct of the arks isn't really all that hard to understand, dear HP (peace to you, dear one!). We need only look to our own vessels (i.e., cup, container, "ark")... our bodies: physical on the outside... spirit on the inside. Hence, Christ's words to the scribes and Pharisees:

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but [color=#0000FF]inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence! Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside[/color] of the cup and dish, and [color=#0040FF]then the outside also will be clean. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. On the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness[/color]." "Matthew 23:25-28

Our bodies are vessels, dear one... "cups and dishes"... that [can] carry IN them the spirit of God (holy spirit - His blood, breath, etc.); however, that spirit cannot dwell/reside IN us if we are unclean on the INSIDE. We have to "prepare [our] bodies"... by means of preparing our HEARTS... in order to RECEIVE that spirit. We do this by cleansing the "inside" (removing the "fruit" of the flesh - hatred, hypocrisy, adulteries, murders, etc.) and "softening" the heart... so that God and Christ, by spirit, can come IN... and then write the NEW "Law" (of love) ON our softened hearts. That law cannot be written on a "hardened" heart.

In the same way, the arks: physical vessels on the outside, but spirit on the inside. Also with the garden in Eden/outside that place: the garden ("inside"), spiritual; the physical realm, "outside". As it is with New Jerusalem, the spiritual "city" made up of the people of God:

Re "Inside" -

"The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life." Revelation 21:24-27

Re "Outside" -

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Revelation 22:14-15

The LEGAL ability to "go and out" between the two realms, spirit and physical, is something granted ONLY by Christ, the Door/Narrow Gate:

“Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. John 10:7-9

So, no, dear one, the ark(s) were not "stargates" - they were merely vessels the COVER (propitiatory) of which is the [star[gate. That "cover"... is Christ, the TRUE propitiatory*:

"... we have an advocate with the Father, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah/Anointed/Christ)** the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the whole world." 1 John 2:1, 2

*1) mercy-seat, place of atonement
a) the golden plate of propitiation on which the High Priest sprinkled the seat 7 times on the Day of Atonement symbolically reconciling JaHVeH and His chosen people
1) the slab of gold on top of the ark of the covenant which measured 2.5 by 1.5 cubits; on it and part of it were the two golden cherubim facing each other whose outstretched wings came together above and constituted the throne of God

**[Jesus] Christ



I hope this helps and that this explanation, which I received from my Lord, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah), is clear enough to understand. I can expound more, if necessary.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

JUSTMOM SAID


[

Thank you my sister
I appreciate that greater understanding.
Something that was given to me this morning about our vessels remaining chaste as virgins on the inside is the great responsibility that comes with it.
Since there has been a lot of conversation lately on Babylon The Great as a harlot and mother of harlots, Jah has strongly warned those that belong to Him at Isaiah 52:11 : "Turn away, turn away, get out of there (HER), touch nothing unclean, get out of the midst of HER, KEEP YOURSELVES CLEAN (inside/spirit), you who are carrying the utensils of Jah." Sounds exactly like Revelation 18:4

You CANNOT profess to be in union with JAHeshua(Christ) eating of his flesh and drinking his blood/holy spirit and be part of that harlot. (organized religion) You make yourself part of her flesh, therefore a daughter of hers, therefore sharing in her sins and receiving her plagues.
Notice Babylon the great sits with a BIG cup/vessel proclaiming to carry that utensil.....but INSIDE her cup is "THE BLOOD OF THE HOLY ONES"

just thought I'd share that
Love justmom

YPPUPLLEH SAID

Thank you AGuest and Justmom for continuing to share your thoughts on the matter . I can understand the concept of physical vessels containing spiritual cargo. And as AGuest mentioned that Noah's Ark is not the "Stargate" but contains it within. What sticks to me like a burr on a pair of socks is the idea that those who enter these vessels lose their physical form and become purely spirit.

So the physical bodily ark which contains the Spirit enters the physical nautical Ark. Then the physical bodily ark loses its physicality and goes away until the person steps outside of the nautical Ark? This is why I ask if the topic at hand is about literal transfiguration or figurative.

It's important to be specific about what we are really trying to say so we can stay the course and not take tangential offshoots.

I can argue that the Creation story and story of Jesus is an allegory for life. In the beginning there was nothing as before conception we do not exist. Then after conception we start to form in the womb. The womb, as some have suggested, is the Garden of Eden or Noah's Ark. Upon birth we are expelled from the womb(Garden of Eden) and enter the real world where we suffer the hardships of life. After a period of wandering through life(or the wilderness) we may find God again(Ten commandments) then we may wander through life again while we are tested to keep our faith(wandering for 40 years) then upon our Death, as believers. We once again enter heaven having been absolved of our sins(Sacrifice of Christ) and we are taken up into haven(Ascension of Christ)

Getting back to Noah's Ark. That can represent born again Christians. The Ark symbolizes the adult taking on Christ and being reborn by entering the Ark(Womb) and then exiting the Ark later(Rebirth). Those we do not accept Christ and enter the Ark are killed off in th flood and therefore do not have everlasting life.

The above two paragraphs are examples of how i can interpret those stories to fit a discovery I'm trying to validate.
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Love is a warm rubber puppy...

YPPUPLLEH SAID

I am not trying to convince anybody that anybody's interpretation isn't correct or that mine is the correct way. I am just sharing my thoughts up to the discussion to how i view and understand what I know thus far.

Taking out figurative illustrations and analogous thought, my stance is that i do do not think or believe that the physical animals or humans lost their earthly physical bodies upon entering the Ark of Noah or the mini baby Ark of Moses and became pure spiritual energy who then regained their physical bodies upon leaving thyroid respective arks

When I read about shedding of the flesh I do not read it as a literal shedding of our soft and hard tissues but of our physical desires. The flesh is our earthly bodies, their physical bodily needs, and their desires. It's akin to the saying that in order to find yourself you have to first lose yourself. One doesn't actually go drive into a forest and make themselves lost its figurative
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Love is a warm rubber puppy...

YPPUPLLEH SAID

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:12 pm Post subject:
I also accept the truths of Justmom and AGuest that they have for themselves

We are each on our personal journey and we each have different needs and methods to fulfill that journey
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Love is a warm rubber puppy...

AGUEST SAID


And you are most welcome to do that on this site, dear HP (peace to you, dear one!); indeed, that is the purpose of this site, to invite everyone's input and not ridicule or malign if it differs from one's own. So, please, don't ever feel like you need to hold back.



That's understandable. Perhaps that's because you don't quite understand the process, though - they didn't actually "lose" their earthly physical bodies upon entering - rather, such is changed: transformed, transfigured. The Greek term is "metamorphosoo", and depicts a literal change [of FORM], as shown in the first part of the following:



It is what occurred with my Lord as recorded at Matthew 17:2 and Paul was speaking of as recorded at 2 Corinthians 3:18 (see http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf ... KJV#conc/2 and http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf ... JV#conc/18).

It's what Paul meant when he stated:

"And as we have borne the image of the earthy [terrestrial/physical man], we shall also bear the image of the heavenly [celestial/spirit man]."

So, they didn't LOSE their physical bodies, per se - such bodies were literally changed... and then changed back (put off, then put on). That's why bodies, both physical and spirit, are called "robes" or "garments." The spirit body is the "white" robe - meaning, it is clean, undefiled, without sin and death IN it. Thus, it is "incorruptible." The physical body is termed a "befouled garment"... or "unclean" robe. Because it does have sin and death IN it. This is why, for example, the great crowd is depicted as "washing their robes" in the blood of Christ, the Lamb. By means of his blood, their PHYSICAL bodies are cleansed of sin and death. Washed. So as to BECOME "white"... or spirit. Clean and without defilement.

Had they LOST their physical bodies, then, they would not have been able to return to them once outside again.



Well, yes, there can be a figurative, symbolic interpretation. Can be in ALL of this; however, over the aeons, man has allowed the symbolic and figurative to OVERSHADOW the literal... and truth. That's because those who claim to KNOW... but do NOT... purport to teach about what these things are and/or refer to. They don't know... because they don't possess holy spirit, the blood/breath/semen of God... so as TO know. They are not "in union" with Him, so as to know what His purpose are.

And that's because they are in union with Christ, regardless of what they may claim. If they WERE, they would have the MIND of Christ, who is a spirit... and who, though his blood, which he received from God and so is God's blood... holy spirit... SPEAKS and TEACHES things "of the spirit." They are yet fleshly and earthly... and so their minds can only comprehend that which is fleshly... and earthly. Physical. That which is spiritual seems unbelievable, incomprehensible, even impossible. They forget, though, that with God... ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.

Christ could walk on water, for example, due to his ability to "change" his vessel... the "cup", "robe", "garment"... from one of solid mass to one of spirit. This allowed his vessel to be lighter and so able to be carried on the water's surface. He did this for Peter, changed his vessel... as he promises to do for ALL those who belong to him. Set such ones FREE... so that even the "laws" of this world, the physical world... such a gravity... are not BINDING.



Again, I can see where this might be your interpretation... somewhat accurate, even, as to the symbolic fulfillment. I would YOU, though, to consider that there is also a LITERAL fulfillment... and if so, how that might manifest. It really isn't that hard to "see", dear one... when once has "purchased" and received "eyesalve":

"You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see." Revelation 3:17, 18

We have no excuse to be blind as to these things, then, dear one... as although the statement was made to the congregation in Laodicea at the time, the invitation is to ALL... of those who are wishing and thirsting. Thus, the Spirit and the Bride are STILL saying, to such ones:

"Come! Take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of God, which is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... which water/spirit "gives sight to the blind!" (Luke 4:18)... FREE!"

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

JUSTMOM SAID

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject:
[ [/quote]

Thank you HP and Aguest for sharing

As far as this also my Lord showed me that "Enoch" and "Moses" were ones that transfigured or change. The reason their bodies were never discovered.

Just a thought
justmom

RED SAID

Galatians 5:16-18

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Those who are filled with Holy Spirit AND have an abundance of Faith are not held under the Laws of the Flesh. Which is how Noah, Moses, Enoch etc... all accomplished the things they did. They were living HERE on Earth more in Spirit than they were in flesh which brought them ABOVE the law. They were literally physically doing things that are IMPOSSIBLE for our fleshly bodies to do.

Holy Spirit is what made the boat an Ark. That's the simplest way I can personally explain it, although I'm not good at explaining my thoughts into words short enough for people to comprehend LOL

Example..
During communion...

Bread is just bread, and wine is JUST fermented grape juice.. UNTIL your flesh overcomes the fact that it's not just bread and it's not just wine you're consuming..
You're putting your faith into knowing the bread IS the body of Christ and the blood of Christ. Until you put your faith into the fact that it's more than just a piece of bread or some opaque purple liquid you are literally just eating bread and drinking wine.

But those who DO know what the breads outter appearance represents know that it represents LIFE. Those who are living "above the law" are consuming eternal life and participating in the covenant.

Those who are below the law are just consuming some bread and wine LOL.
And when I say "below the law" remember I'm talking about those who are not 'walking' in spirit or just aren't asking to remain in union.

Hope I didn't confuse more than I clarified.

Thanks for letting me add my share to the story

Peace and much Love to All!

JUSTMOM SAID

Thank you Red for that input.....

I would have to say that those with holy spirit have faith. Mayyyybee not an "abundance" as all one needs is faith the size of a mustard seed to move mountains lol..... Faith is one of the fruitages that we must pray for continually. Without it it is impossible to see and hear clearly spiritually.
But the examples you mentioned of faithful ones is good. They were obedient and excersized their faith in what they heard from Jah.

The example of communion is a good one. The "physical" representation of something that becomes "spiritual."

justathought
justmom

AGUEST SAID

YES, YES, YES!!! dear Red (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!). YES!!

Hope I didn't confuse more than I clarified

You didn't confuse ME, not at ALL! I totally understand... and my spirit bears witness to the TRUTH of what you shared, here! THANK YOU!!



This is true, too, dear 'Mom (peace to you, as well!). But I don't thing that's what dear Red was speaking of/meaning, based on his/her statement:



By that statement, it seems to me that dear Red is speaking of those who possess both holy spirit... AND abundance of faith... versus those who possesst that Spirit... but whose faith is, perhaps, only the size of a mustard seed (metaphorically speaking).

I could be wrong, so please, dear Red, correct me if I am misunderstanding you.

Again, peace to you, both!

Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

RED SAID

Thank You, mom, for that reply. and YES aGuest, that's exactly it, especially on the emphasis I worded it badly but I meant they accomplished the things they did because they were working above the laws of flesh as opposed to because they had an abundance of faith. There is only one that i know of who possessed an abundance and that was Christ.

It took faith the recieve the message from God but it took even more to start actually building a boat. Then it took even more knowing that this boat was to be an Ark.

Mom, I see where you are correct.
As it is said in Matthew 17:20

One only need the amount of faith like a grain of mustard seed to move mountains.. (IF its Holy Spirits will) nothing will be impossible..
As far as I know the only living being that had Holy Spirit AND an abundance of faith was Christ
but I do believe there were moments or occurrences where Noah obtained an abundance which allowed him to do what he did and the boat to become what it did. Unlike Christ, Noah was not perfect but he did possess much potential. And if what you're saying is accurate then this ark was a spiritual shelter. Spiritual places/shelters don't allow Flesh/Sin so they HAD to be in spirit. And once in spirit I'm sure it's MUCH easier to be abundantly faithful and absolutely positive in what they were doing was right. I even apply this to the very animals..

I'm sure Jah is fine with mountains being moved and seas being parted (at his will) but to have a spiritual place on Earth.. That's pretty profound.. that's Big..

Like I said I'm terrible getting thoughts into words but food for thought..
If we're all instruments to be used I believe there's a time and place where we are being used to our fullest. When that time comes its up to US to take what we're given and to use it to Holy Spirits advantage.

I believe if we all had the exact same amount of faith it would measure up differently varying spirit to spirit because where your heart stands depends on your capabilities your faith can accomplish.

*scratches head*
I think that's what I was getting at... LOL
I'd love to hear some input. The more you wonder the more you wander

GLADIATOR SAID

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject:
All religions and cultures have their mythology, legends, myths and folklore. They are rarely taken literally. They are often expressions of the sub-conscious mind or Jungian collective consciousness. They have value in as much as they provide a canvass to paint on.

They can help to make sense of the world in days gone by; when we still thought the earth was flat of that the sun moved around the earth. Thunder was caused by gods fighting and so on. They satisfy our emotional need to make sense of our human existence in a story like way.

Thanks to scientific advances we now have a much clearer understanding of our world and the universe. Many people who believe in a personal God no longer rely on ancient manuscripts, runes, or other people’s raptures. They expect to experience their connection with the infinite in a direct and personal way. ‘Times they are a changing.’

CHARIKLO SAID

I am just not sure. There are two things. First, the flood itself. Is there evidence of a widespread, if not worldwide flood a long time ago? I believe the answer to that is an emphatic yes.

Worldwide , there are myths and legends about a giigantic flood, whether from Plato and the whole mythology of Atlantis, or the legends of lands now under the sea, such as a magic island off the coast of Wales, or the lost land of Avalon submerged off the coast of Cornwall. These are quite distinct from the provable stories of villages that got submerged in historical times; these are not uncommon off the east coast of England, and they are clearly due to erosion and rising sea levels. These ancient flood stories are different.

I'll try and find some research I did on all of that a few years ago. Not now. Very busy day.

Then there's the story of Noah. I tend to think there was indeed a historical person called Noah. From that point, I think that something definitely happened, that the man called Noah did build a noteworthy vessel, historical details and proof uncertain. Again, I have a dig around when I can.

Ultimately, the pattern in history is that ancient history goes into myth through constant story-telling, and in ancient times this was more than likely through verbal telling of sagas, generation to g eneration. In this case, it will have been coloured by the prevailing, or at least the succeeding culture, with the very strong religiious view of the Jews.

Those are my thoughts for now.

I like what you wrote, Gladiator, and all the posts above. Most interesting. Great thread!

LOZ SAID

I've just finished going throughout his thread for the first time and I can't tell you how busy I am going to be pondering some of these posts. Oh the joys of spiritual connection!
Can someone please tell me more about the Bible apps referred to that I could download to my Ipad?

Loz x

PSACRAMENTO SAID

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject:
It is important to understand that, the floods have been happening since the dawn of time.
Recall the horrific tsunami in SE Asia?
In China, every years, 1000's die due to flooding.
The tales/stories of floods around the world all have different timelines than the OT flood, so we can't use that as an example of ONE Global flood.