xjwsforChrist

To the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!

A bit ago we had a discussion wherein some may have felt that our dear Lord, in giving his life on behalf of the world, in order to save the world, will in fact save everyone. Sadly, that everyone will NOT be saved was hard for some to hear and so, perhaps wishing to hear a... mmmmmm... more "positive" outcome... perhaps have gone off to seek that. Of course, we wish such ones absolutely NO illwill... and we do know they will find such messages (of positivity), even if the substance of such aren't true. Each one must decide for himself/herself what it is... and WHO it is... they wish to listen to... and follow.

But I have been directed by my Lord to share a bit more on this matter with you, so that those who are not looking so much for "positivity" as for TRUTH... can make an INFORMED decision, should they feel they need to make one at all.

We all know (or should know) that when our dear Lord made the statement at John 3:16, he qualified as to who be saved by that love; not the entire world, but those IN the world who exercised/demonstrated active faith... in him. What, though, does it mean, at least in regard to this statement, to exercise/demonstrate active faith... in Christ? Over the years, you have read me sharing that it means listening to... and obeying... his voice. While I know you all get that, I am directed by our dear Lord to go back... to some of the "elementary things"... and share what this means.

For example, obeying what he said. NOT what you hear from/in the spirit, although that is absolutely important, but that which you heard even before you knew there WAS such a spirit. For instance, perhaps where you read him having said:

"Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood... YOU HAVE NO LIFE WITHIN YOURSELVES." John 6:51

Did you HEAR what he said here? If so, you will note that there is a very important word here: "UNLESS." While the rest of the statement is very important, yes, I am to leave you to ponder just what this particular word implies, in relation to the REST of the statement. Think on that word... and think in terms of EXERCISING... or DEMONSTRATING... ACTIVE... faith. Unless.

My Lord said that, in sharing that, there will be some who will say, "We get that verse and its meaning, and we do what it implies there, but we still don't agree with..." whatever else they don't agree with with. And so, I am to next share the following:

You will recall his words that "Many are called, few are chosen." What... is the CALL? And when does one hear it? The "call" is ALSO recorded, so that, again, even before one hears such from/in the SPIRIT... one can read of it, in at least two (2) places:

"[Jesus] stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty... come to ME... and drink." John 7:37

and...

"The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life." Revelation 22:17

But now, say you've read these... yet, you do not DO what they SAY to do... what CHRIST is SAYING to do? Then you cannot say, can you, that you are EXERCISING... or DEMONSTRATING... ACTIVE... faith (in him)... can you? You hear... but... do you DO?

It is from these, though, those who DO hear the CALL... and hence, are of the "many (who are) called"... that the "FEW"... are CHOSEN.

Why? Because, in addition to hearing... and OBEYING... these "elementary" calls... these hear subsequent calls. For example, the call to "GET OUT OF HER, MY people!" And... when they are called, NOT through written words, but by a VOICE... and BY NAME. John 10:1-5

It is when they learn to obey that Voice... NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS... and follow the One to Whom it belongs... NO MATTER WHERE HE GOES... even as to something they don't "want" (to do/hear)... and even if it is outside of the "pen" they may currently be in and through a vast, unknown wilderness (which they must traverse on their way to HIS pen)... that they step even closer (to him).

The only ones whose choosing cannot be undone are those who are sealed (Revelation 3:12; 7:4; 9:4; 14:1; 22:4). Which is why they ARE sealed - for them, it is done. Accomplished. As PETER wrote, however, everyone else must make the EFFORT... to CONFIRM... their calling... and choosing (Revelation 2:17). It is not a given. Falling away is not impossible.

I, SA, have shared this with you just as I received it from my Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). May those with ears to hear hear and get the sense of this truth, and may those who wish it be GIVEN ears so as to hear when the Spirit and the Bride say to THEM:

"Come! TAKE 'LIFE'S WATER'... the oil of exultation and holy spirit of God, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, which oil/water is His breath, blood, and seed... and is poured out from the innermost parts of His Lamb, King, and Son, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... and TREE OF LIFE (John 14:6, 15:1; Revelation 22:1)... FREE!"

Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and ALL those who go with, and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

So, questions:
- The words at John 6 were stated about a year before the passover where the Lord's Supper was inaugurated. There is no mention in the Gospel of John about that inauguration. Were the words of John 6 a precursor to the Lord's Supper? I ask some say no and some say yes. Most focus on the literal eating of the flesh and literal drinking of the blood, but my question is: was this a precursor to what the Lord commanded us to keep doing in remembrance of him? If so, why didn't the Gospel of John include that when he was talking about the passover meal?
- Some feel strongly that these words at John 6 are figurative... their reasoning goes much like this:
- The requirement for eternal life is eating the flesh and drinking the blood (John 6:51-53)
- The requirement for eternal life is believing, aka exercising faith (John 3:16)
- One can do one and not the other. One can eat the flesh and not drink the blood and not really believe. Or one can believe, but not eat the flesh or drink the blood.
- More reasoning: what of children who die prematurely before they realize the importance of eating the flesh or drinking the blood? Or what of people who are too sick to do so, or who are imprisoned and cannot do so?
- Others say that eating the flesh and drinking the blood is one and the same as exercising faith / believing since the Christ talked in figures of speech.

Noteworthy: WTBTS says that John 6:51-53 applies to both the 144,000 and great crowd. They believe, as do others, that eating/drinking is the same as exercising faith. They also do not believe John 6 is a precursor to the inauguration of the Lord's Supper since it was a year previously and the apostles had no inkling of what that was all about.

Personally, I think it was a precursor to the Lord's Supper. It seems to me that our Lord was giving a hint of things to come. Nowhere else is the Lord's flesh and blood alluded to with respect to eating and drinking them. I'm a little confused why there's no mention of the Lord's Supper in this Gospel, though. Seems strange since the other three Gospels do mention it, and only this Gospel has this particular saying of our Lord (in John 6).

Hello LQ,

I do not fully understand your first question on the Passover/ inauguration.
But as to some of the other questions, I realize many different people based on their own interpretations and or through religion have come to take these verses to mean them the way they want to hear and read them.

But as was shared in the opening subject, what do we read our Lord saying to do? Even if we don't hear a voice as was mentioned what do we hear by his own words written that we should obey and do?

He says, " UNLESS you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you have NO life within yourself."

He says, " He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood HAS everlasting life."

He says, " He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood REMAINS IN UNION with me."

He personally demonstrated with his first 12 disciples how this is to be done. And told them to continue this often proclaiming Christs death until he arrives.

So does it really matter how or what others teach as to what they feel it means? Shouldn't we listen to and obey the one that gave his life for this to even be offered to us? And do it the way HE SAYS to do it?


Noteworthy: WTBTS says that John 6:51-53 applies to both the 144,000 and great crowd. They believe, as do others, that eating/drinking is the same as exercising faith. They also do not believe John 6 is a precursor to the inauguration of the Lord's Supper since it was a year previously and the apostles had no inkling of what that was all about.

I'm not so sure the WTBS applies theses verses to both the 144,000 AND the great crowd?
The 144,000 yes? And now that has become quite debatable. But the great crowd they have not allowed into this covenant. They require them to live up to the same standards as the 144,000 and promise them that they will live forever in a paradise on earth and receive a resurrection without being in union with Chirst by obeying literally this command that he gave that tells us how to live forever.

This is how they " shut up the kingdom to them" in Matthew 23:13 They deny them union with CHRIST as described in John 6.
They take control as their mediator. They the WTBS put themselves as a CHRIST between the great crowd and Jah.

So this is why the invitation in Revelation 22:17 is so very very important for those of us that not only have read but do hear our lords voice and to keep saying, " Come" and for anyone that is thirsty to "Come" and take life's water free. It is for anyone who wishes this gift of the Holy Spirit.

The WTBS and religion has lied to us and misled us as to who and how and where it comes from.

As far as children and older ones and those in prison. I have seen them All partake in some way at some time.
And if not, Jah is a merciful loving God that desires none to be destroyed. He is the most merciful of all. So we don't need to worry as to them. We need to be obedient individually as to what we hear our Lord telling us personally.

I realize I didn't answer all your questions, but I hope I can help in some way.

Peace and love to you
Justmom ( who also is a servant and slave of our lord and to one another and forgets this and needs to be reminded)
Love to you all,

Thank you, Justmom.

If you have any desire to know why I said WTBTS believes both that the words at John 6:51-53 are NOT related to the Lord's Supper when our Lord said the bread meant his body and the wine meant his blood, and why I said WTBTS believes the words at John 6:51-53 apply to both the 144,000 and the great crowd, it's because they said so in their most recent teaching on this matter in the 9/15/03 wt pg. 31.

I was comparing what WTBTS teaches to what others teach to what was shared here. I was very surprised that WT teaches that it applies to both the 144,000 and the great crowd. They teach the 144,000 get 'life in themselves' when they are resurrected, but the great crowd has to wait until the end of the thousand years, but still, then they do get 'life in themselves' because they've presumably passed the final test and have been found righteous.

They teach the eating the flesh and drinking the blood in John 6:51-53, though, is NOT referring to the Lord's Supper or the New Covenant because when our Lord spoke these words, it was a year before instituting that arrangement, therefore it couldn't be referring to that. WTBTS is not alone in feeling this way. I found a sermon that dated back to 1876 by a Pastor unrelated to WTBTS who felt similarly, and I found other online resources that reasoned in the same manner.

I personally do NOT feel this way. I feel exactly as you and Shelby shared, that what we read, whether we hear it or not, is what it is.

Nope, they haven't
1951: spiritual Israelites, related to the New Covenent
1956: exclusively the "little flock" or "bride class", seeming to be related to the New Covenent
1962: not specified as to whom, but related to the New Covenant
1978: those with a heavenly hope, related to the New Covenant
1986: both 144,000 and great crowd, not related to the New Covenant <-- the change was here

They are so confused and lost!

Thanks for this, but it doesn't sound too too crazy or so many wouldn't be gulping down the koolaid aid.

Love Justmom

Since dear 'Mom didn't specifically address the following, dear LQ (peace to you, both!), perhaps I can? Thank you!



It was, dear one... because although he said the words then, he did not show them how they were to be FULFILLED... until after that meal. For those who focus on the literal eating/drinking... how can such be? How could Christ have meant eat his literal flesh and drink his literal blood, when (1) such was forbidden under the Law and he would NEVER have directed them to transgress the Law (although, he WOULD have exhorted them to SURPASS the Law, with love!); (2) the Jews would never have allowed it; and (3) his body was taken down, prepared, entombed, then resurrected? Literally eat it and drink the blood... WHEN??



I would offer that we shouldn't be so sure that it didn't. That such is not included in the Bible canon doesn't mean Lazarus didn't include it when he wrote the gospel. What if, say, a page was missing when the gospel was canonized more than 200 hundred years later? Or what if Lazarus (who was actually the writer of that gospel, NOT John) didn't feel it was necessary to include, as he believed all would recall it later? He also didn't include the accounts occurring before our dear Lord was born to Mary. or what Gabriel said to her, or what Herod did... or pretty much anything... before our dear Lord presented himself to John (the Baptizer). Doesn't mean such things didn't occur. What he DID write was what he was given to remember LATER. So perhaps our dear LORD didn't think he needed to include it... as the others included it in THEIR accounts. (Revelation 1:19



Yes, but such reasoning is erroneous, is it not? There is no ONE thing that we must do; there are several things... ALL of which ADD UP... to a DEMONSTRATION... of the faith we profess, yes?

For instance, if we do NOT eat and drink... partake of his flesh and blood, how can we say we have faith IN him? He that is faithful in what is LEAST is faithful... in MUCH... yes? And so, if HE says that "UNLESS" you eat his flesh and drink his blood... well, the question is... do you BELIEVE him when he SAYS that... have FAITH... IN him... that what he said... is TRUE? If ones DOES believe him in that... have faith that what he said is true... how can one NOT partake... and yet, say they LOVE him?

And yet, even IF one eats and drinks, but does NOT:

1. DISCERN THE BODY... that what one is partaking of IS the flesh and blood of Christ, the "leaves" of the Tree [of Life] - John 14:6; 15:1 - which CURES us (of corruption)... and the "water of Life"... which CLEANSES us (of sin)... so that even if our FLESH dies... our SPIRITS are preserved... ALIVE);

2. BELIEVE (have FAITH) that one WILL be cured/cleansed by means of those "leaves" and that "water";

3. So that one KNOWS that it is by means OF this eating/drinking that those who do LIVE;

4. Or BELIEVE that by means of that SAME blood, the blood of the FATHER... HOLY SPIRIT... which was/is in Christ... is HOW he was able to escape Death's hold and come BACK... FROM death... so as to be ALIVE;

5. BELIEVE that he IS alive... and alive such that he SPEAKS (because it is DEAD men who do not speak!)... and not just "in theory"; so that one

6. LISTENS to him WHEN he speaks to one, because they KNOW he IS alive... AND SPEAKS... by means of that SAME blood, that speaks in a BETTER way than Abel's... and will render US alive, just as it did HIM;

7. And so SCRUTINIZES oneself when one eats and drinks... by means of what he tells/shows that one ABOUT oneself... so as to be able to eat and drink WITHOUT doing so in JUDGMENT against oneself... because one uses what one HEARS... by MEANS of that blood... to know how to cleanse the INSIDE of his/her "cup"... CURE the "ills" and COVER the "sins" in there... so that one is a PREPARED "vessel" for God's spirit, that blood;

... then what is the POINT? Such one is eating and drinking... WITHOUT faith... and possibly doing in judgment against oneself! It is not a "magic pill" for life... UNLESS it is accompanied... by FAITH!

If one eats and drinks, but not in FAITH, then one isn't doing so for the right reason... and so may not be in UNION... as a result. If one does NOT eat and drink, but says they have faith... one is fooling oneself because one is not being OBEDIENT. And to OBEY... is BETTER... than sacrifice. Yes? ("Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' but do not do the things I say?!")



Peter answered that one, dear one, when he said:

"The blessing is for you... AND YOUR CHILDREN." Acts 2:38, 39

All who have children... who claim a union with Christ... have an obligation to act as "priests" of their own households. Indeed, it is what such are being TRAINED to ultimately be: kings... AND priests! Why act as such NOW? LOVE, dear one. Because what is the ROLE of a priest? Is it not to seek atonement on behalf of another?

So one must act as one's childrens' PRIEST. One can even act as priest for one's unbelieving mate, yes? ("But wife, how do you but know that you will save your husband?"). And aren't our children "sanctified" in relation to US? Else, THEY would be "illegitimate" children (as to God)? One CANNOT act for a mate who ALSO claims a union, however, as their "vow" is THEIRS... between JAH/Christ and THEM... not between WE and them and JAH/Christ. So, we cannot act as a "mediator" or priest in such a case: Christ is their mediator and priest and so they, too, must go to and through him. That's NOT to say we wouldn't HELP such one fulfill THEIR vow... even PRAY for (mercy for) such ones - love would prompt that from us, yes? Even still, such one will have to answer for himself/herself... because THEY make the claim of a union.

Where that is not the case, however, where there ISN'T a [claim of] union by a loved one... would not LOVE prompt us to act as a priest for such one? How would WE do that, though? Through making burnt offerings, sin offerings, and such? Slaughter a goat? Sacrifice a dove? No, dear one. We would do it... through pleading for MERCY from JAH for such ones, pleading to and THROUGH Christ... as Christ, the HIGH Priest... and our PERSONAL priest... pleads for mercy to the Father for US!

Noah knew this. Abraham knew this. Isaac, Jacob, David... Job... even our dear Lord... knew this... and all acted accordingly. For their households. Even Rahab bargained for the salvation of her entire HOUSEHOLD... and had FAITH in the promise made as to her ENTIRE household... such that she risked HER life... AND theirs... AND HID THOSE SPIES! She BELIEVED... and so put FAITH in what she was told... that HER act would save the others! And she wasn't even an Israelite!



JAH is merciful, dear one! He would never call for someone to do something they COULDN'T do! Where would the love and mercy be in THAT? But one who is imprisoned does receive bread... and water... yes? So long as they DISCERN that the bread/water REPRESENTS the flesh and blood of Christ... is it not the FAITH... and INTENT... that matter? So, it's not unleavened bread. And it's not "wine." JAH and Christ are not that "exacting", dear one. Of course, if one HAD unleavened bread/wine, but were too lazy... or for some other reason... refused/CHOSE... not to partake... but if one didn't... one uses what one has! And if one has NOTHING... cannot one STILL go through the motions... and give THANKS... as IF one had? So that they are TRYING to be "faithful... in what is least?"

David and his men weren't SUPPOSED to eat the showbread, yes? As it was SUPPOSED to be solely for the priests, right? Yet, when they were suffering from hunger, what did they do? And what was JAH's reaction?

JAH is NOT the monstrous, unmerciful, exacting, quick to anger, LACKING in loving kindness Person that many "christian" religions... and particularly the WTBTS... have made Him out to be, dear one! Which they have done... in order to instill FEAR... so as to PUT UNDER COMPULSION those who they can bend to THEIR will!

He is merciful, SLOW to anger, ABUNDANT in loving kindness... ready to FORGIVE... and RELEASE! How do we KNOW? By reading the OT? No, dear one. We know... by looking at His IMAGE: Christ! The One who said he came to bear witness TO THE TRUTH... about the MOST HOLY One of Israel, his Father and God... JAH... of Armies!



Which is WHY... the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies SAID:

Do NOT put your trust in earthling man..."

Because He KNEW... others would "say" all MANNER of things, dear one. They always have! What each of US must decide is WHO... WE, individually... will listen to. In whom will WE put our trust: in Him and His Christ? Or... in earthling man and nobles? We were even told:

"Do NOT lean upon your OWN understanding."

So, if we can't trust other men... or even ourselves... who CAN we trust? We were told that, as well:

"Trust in JAH with ALL your heart..."

And how do we show that we trust JAH? By LISTENING to Him, yes? And Whom did HE say we WERE to listen to?

"This is my Son, the beloved - listen to HIM!"

Yet, if we don't listen to Christ... can we TRULY say we're listening to GOD?? How can we listen, though, to someone we don't believe SPEAKS?

That, dear one... is where faith STARTS:

By LISTENING... to the VOICE... that speaks to us from the SPIRIT realm (Hebrews 12:15), which is the voice of the Fine Shepherd, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the CHOSEN One of JAH. He, the MischaJAH. And HE said:

"The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."

And, very importantly, as to those who do NOT listen, who do NOT believe him to be MischaJah and so ask to be told "plainly" if he was:

"I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me."

Those who don't GET this, don't get it because (1) they're not LISTENING; and/or (2) they're not HIS sheep.

LISTEN, dear one. Quiet yourself... YOUR thoughts... YOUR words... YOUR "thinking"... and listen. To him. HIS thoughts and HIS words. His thinking.

I hope this helps, dear LQ, truly!

As always, I wish you peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Beautiful! <smile>

And Amen to all of that Shelby!



Peace and love to you all, as Christ gives peace!

Your sisters, servant, and fellow slave of Christ,

tammy

You know, I had sheep once....

It kinda tasted like duck for some reason..

..maybe it was duck....

ack! .....chinese people.....who knows whats in their meat!

Me
p.s. eat and drink! not putting that down. Just saw a moment for a joke.

The sheep in our logo are pondering your words, Voices. (except for the one in the lead... he doesn't look capable of pondering much at all, lol) The others are beginning to realize what you just said... "-- wait... did he just... say.... um... oh."

O_O



Peace,
tammy

After that they look rather...too friendly...with that grin. like speaking through his teeth..."i'll distract this mofo...jump his brown ass'

No sudden moves, Voices. I think that is your best bet at this point ; )


Peace,
tammy

Hi-LARI-ous, you two (dear Voices and tec)!!!

Peace to you, both!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar, who, given our mascots, will... out of the kindness of her heart... keep her "thoughts" re lamb... whether roasted, broasted, baked, barbecued, braised, grilled, stewed... or as part of (the best) tacos (ever made)... to herself...