xjwsforChrist

its been a great stay in this forum. thanks to you all and God bless.

Actually, Kassad, the way to get out of one's sins is to face them, admit to them, feel sorry, say to God that you are sorry, mean it, and, as Jesus said, "Go and sin no more".

That's it.

It is important to understand what our Faith is about, WHO it is based on and why and what that means about us.
Christianity is an inclusive religion, it means that ALL are welcomed and all those that profess Christ are sealed by the HS.
We do that out of faith and IN faith with Christ.
We are children of God by virtue of our proclamation of faith in Christ.
We are children of God in the creative sense, as was Adam and we are all children of Adam in that regard also.
Being a child of God because all is from God and our spirit is from God is one thing, it is what gives us the chance for salvation BUT not what saves Us.
We are saved by faith, not by works nor by virtue of birth, by faith only.

I'm not sure why this raises the feelings in you it does, dear Kassad (peace to you!)... but I will explain why it's important to ME:

For many years now I have been sharing with you and others what I receive from my Lord. And so long as what I share is... mmmmmmm... "acceptable"... to some's ears, they continue to receive such things. When such things aren't acceptable, they are either challenged (which is totally acceptable!)... or folks move on (which is also acceptable). You might note that this is also what occurred with my Lord. The thing is:

While it's apparently perfectly okay for someone to challenge what I share, it seems NOT to be so for ME to challenge what THEY share... EVEN if I provide support, backup, substantiation, corroboration. That seems a bit hypocritical to me. More importantly, though, if I start agreeing with others... simply for the sake OF agreement (and so psuedo form of "peace")... then how can you trust ANYTHING I share? If I pick and choose which truths to share... and when... so as to please others... what is the POINT?

Would you TRULY prefer me to share with you only what you WANT to hear... than what is TRUE? But why look to ME for that? Why expect such from ME? There are PLENTY of folks... and particularly religious leaders... out there who are MORE than willing to do that. But I have NEVER been about that.

I am TRULY sorry if what I shared here causes you... mmmmmmmm... pain. Or discomfort. Or discouragement. Let me ask you, though, and perhaps you can tell us... what do you WANT to hear? What would make YOU feel "good"? Make YOU rejoice? Encourage YOU? And would it matter... if it weren't TRUE, so long as it DID make you feel good, rejoice, be encouraged?

Christ didn't come to tickle our ears, dear one; he came... to bear witness... to the TRUTH. Can one TRULY be his followers, disciple, Body member... and truth NOT be important to them?

We, ALL of us, have the freedom to decide in not just with WHOM we wish to walk, but in WHAT: dark or light... truth... or lies. That the truth might "rock" us to our very core does not make it NOT truth. I don't know if you were a JW or not, but coming to know the truth about THAT organization can not only cause some great despair, but has even moved some to take their own lives! AND that of others!

Truth isn't always EASY to receive, then, dear one. BUT... if one pushes past the DISCOMFORT... of having what one THOUGHT was true... challenged... even overturned... there IS joy! Joy... in KNOWING... the TRUTH.

It's not easy, dear one, no. But it's only the world... and those who CLAIM to belong to Christ... who "sell" it as so. They DO... in order to MISLEAD... as MANY as possible! EVEN the chosen ones (which is what the term "christian" MEANS: chosen, by means of an anointing... persons).

Christ, though, made it CLEAR that it would NOT be easy when he said:

“Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me." Matthew 16:24

Now, while most ENGLISH Bible versions state "cross"... that is not TRULY accurate. Because the Greek word is "stauros"... which is ACCURATELY translated "stake". And, more importantly, an execution stake, as stated by the Complete Jewish Bible:

"Then Y'eshua told his talmidim, “If anyone wants to come after me, let him say ‘No’ to himself, take up his execution-stake, and keep following me."

So what? So... while the apparatus may indeed have formed a cross (actually, more often it was a "t")... the second accurately sets forth what we are to DO: DENY ourselves... meaning BECOME DEAD... as to OUR will... and follow Christ. Meaning, do HIS will (which is the will of the Father). That is part of the "FAST" of JAH (God):

“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and JaHVeH's holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
then you will find your joy in JaHVeH,
and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.”
For the mouth of JaHVeH has spoken."


There are two VERY important truths contained in this statement from the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, Himself:

1. "Speaking IDLE words" means... LYING (truth is NEVER "idle"); and

2. Since Christ IS the Truth (John 14:6)... when we LIE... in order to deceive... OR "just because"... we are:

a. Showing that the truth is not IN us; and

b. PROFANING the Sabbath of JAH. Why? Because Christ is Lord... OF THE SABBATH. Matthew 12:8; Luke 6:5


As OUR dear Lord, AND as Lord of the Sabbath... which, unlike under the Law where it was only one day a week... is EVERY day... Christ's will it for us to speak the TRUTH... as HE did and left us a pattern to FOLLOW. We can't always do that, of course, as lives could be in peril if we did ("Yes, Commandant, I AM hiding Jews in my attic!"). However. whenever we CAN... and particularly when it's with regard to God and Christ... we MUST.

Else, how can we say, in TRUTH... that the TRUTH... is IN... US?

So, again, I am sorry if this discussion... mmmmmmm... discouraged you. It truly was not intended to do so but only to set forth the truth. I am a little surprised as what you seem to consider as "provoking judgment towards another" and can only surmise that perhaps you haven't read the entire thread... or perhaps the other two threads where the issue was initially raised... and so where the "provocation" TRULY originated. Or maybe you did and are seeing things as/how you see them. Which is also okay.

But there was no judgment here (and I marvel that folks often tend to think that when they see several saying something in opposition to what one is saying; yet, that contrast doesn't necessarily equate to judging... OR that the ONE is right. I digress). No one judged any one but several TRIED to kindly warn another against hypocrisy.

Because I ASSURE you, that if the topic was one we ALL agreed the WTBTS was wrong about, and that IT'S members were/are believing a (particular) lie... say, the whole 1914 debacle... NO ONE here would even CONSIDER that to be judging those people. Indeed, the words "judging" and "judgment" wouldn't even come up. Because virtually ALL here believe... well, KNOW... that what THOSE poor folks believe are lies... NONE of us have a problem SAYING so... and NONE of us consider it be judging TO say so.

It's only when the same error (believing a lie) is pointed out to ONE... that we are accused of "judging." Even though that one consistently makes the same accusation (the it is WE who are believing lies, indeed, that we DON'T have holy spirit or HEAR the Holy Spirit, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). That that continually seems to ESCAPE such one's notice... and perhaps yours... is curious, if not baffling.

I can't... and won't... lie to you, dear Kassad. If you were a JW, then the time has come for lies... about God and Christ... to end. Even if you weren't, as a fellow HUMAN, you DESERVE better. As (potentially) a son of God... I, as your brother... OWE you more.

I hope this helps and, as always, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Not to nitpick but Saturos can be stake or beam or post.
It doesn't mean "torture-stake" anymore than it means "cross".
That Romans crucified on "T/t" shaped stakes ( cross) is historically accurate, that they used that shape more than others is also correct.
That they also used a single pole is also correct.
That the single poled was used to impale rather than to be nailed to is also correct.

My point is that in a forum that is supposedly for "ex Jw's", the least we "support" unproven JW doctrine, the better.
In this case I mean the JW doctrine that Christ was nailed to a vertical pole rather than a cross of some sort.

Well, that's a matter of opinion and interpretation, Paul, as you must surely know. Justification by faith and justification by works both have their proponents and their supporting Biblical texts. You know that.

The argument has gone on for centuries and justification by faith was the stance that the Protestant Reformists following Luther and Calvin took.

Jesus didn't go down that road.

The discussion on which is right could go on till the cows come home, but the truth is that both are part of the whole picture. It makes a change from the game of bashing Char but just affirming one prejudiced stance over another is always going to be fruitless unless those taking part are all of the same mind. And in that case, why would one bother?

I have not looked up the meaning of the word, so my comment is not about that.

But I think this point... is the point that speaks to the thread, itself. The least we support anything false... that anyone states... the better, because we are supposed to be listening to and so witnessing to the truth.

Else truth becomes compromised and hidden.

Peace,
tammy

One thing I DO honestly like about you, Shelby, is your insistence on truth and accuracy. I don't much like the indirectness that you employ, but I do like your refusal to compromise your beliefs, even though I can often see that you're wrong, (naturally according to my understanding) because leaving aside the Watchtower influence and leaving aside the very natural literalist and fundamentalist bias, which is entirely understandable given your background and Lutheran upbringing, at the end of the day you are focused on sticking to what is right according to your understanding.

I can see that tec has just posted about falsehood and truth and the importance of the latter. What I think none of you realise is that that is the case with me too. I cannot betray Jesus again as I so nearly did when I so nearly submitted to the Watchtower, and I did in those six months when I was going out preaching and convincing myself what I was doing was right. But the one thing that reassures me is that Peter too, Peter who knew Jesus so well and loved him, still betrayed him when the crisis came. And Jesus forgave him. That's why Peter is such a reassuring and very human example to us. Once he realised what he had done, there was no way he was going to do that again. Not will I. Not again.

I can't agree with some of your beliefs because I know they're not right. I can't do that again. But I do absolutely recognise your honesty and sincerity. Your love for Jesus even though you won't use his name, and even though I've read Tammy's post on that other forum when she declares that God is the Father and Jesus is the Spirit.

Er...no, Tammy! That's about as mixed up as anything could be and so not right, but your saving grace is that you mean well and you're sincere. You just don't understand.

Absolutely agreed, dear P (mornin' and peace to you!).



Not so sure, dear one, but good thing I didn't say it did, here, right? LOLOL! Not that you're saying I did - LOLOL!



Whew! Glad I "nailed" that one (pun absolutely intended - LOLOL!



Yep, a "stake", by virtue of the pointed end to make it easy to drive into the ground...



Could be, luv. BUT... folks WERE also nailed to a single stake, in the manner the WTBTS claims our dear Lord was.



But, no, our dear Lord was not nailed as JWs teach. He was impaled (had nails driven through him) on a "T" (more so than a cross - there was a cross limb but it was almost at the very the top, not some feet down)... with JUST enough room above his head (once it drooped from fatigue... or death) to nail his epitaph.

Can I PROVE this? Prolly, with enough convincing research. But this one isn't difficult to find and the info is out there so those who need to can look it up for themselves. For now, I'm only sharing what I saw: my Lord, hung... with large "nails" (VERY large, by today's standard) on a thin tree trunk, stripped of its bark, with a smaller, stripped limb at the top. Like the poles/limbs we saw in Ethiopia (those lying on the ground in this pic):




I saw him and SEVERAL others, NOT just two. The two had been hung WITH him (i.e., at the same time he was)... but the bodies of others hung previously were still there but long dead, rotting and/or being picked at by large black birds (shudder).

I couldn't see anyone but our Lord (a "light" emanated from him!), but his face was down, his chin on his chest. He wasn't dead; he was breathing VERY heavily. His body was small... and emaciated. And he spoke. And for a brief moment I felt his fear. It was for only a moment, though, and then it was like part of him took over that fear and told it to "be quiet." I didn't HEAR him say that; I FELT him say it. I then realized that his words, "Eli, Eli, lama sabach thani!" was because of the fear of his FLESH, which fear he CONQUERED with his SPIRIT.

"Golgotha" was a VERY scary place for ME to see, dear ones. Because I saw it from the viewpoint of someone who grew up fearing "strange fruit" (often a plight of people of MY culture). Seeing Golgotha struck that SAME (kind of) terror in me - seeing dead, deformed, humans... hanging. In ANY form. It's why I could not see Mel Gibson's "Passion (of the Christ)." As I told dear hubby and daughter, who DID see it and tried to get ME to (they thought I might like it!)... I have seen the REAL thing; I don't need a movie to make it real FOR me.

(Shudder)

It really was a "T", which was MORE like a "cross" than a single pole... but not a cross, as WE know such.

I hope this helps... and that you never have to SEE it to believe it... but can just put faith in what it was all about (more so that HOW it was).

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

You "nailed" it, dear, dear Tec (peace... and pun intended, yes, luv!). Thank you... truly!



Clear as [living] "water," as illuminating as "light," and as accurate as "truth" CAN be to ME, dear Char (peace to you, as well... and absolutely NO puns intended here)...



Shaking head... ah, well...

BUT... I DO appreciate YOUR kind words and understand your attempts to... well, flatter me... at this point. Please know that neither are needed, dear one - my love for you has not failed. I can absolutely agree to disagree. I just can't compromise truth. Not even for kind and flattering words. But again, I appreciate the sincerity behind the attempt.

Peace to you both!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Agreed. lets not even get into Calvinisim

One of the earliest writings that describes the cross of Our Lord is the Epistle of Barnabs, a letter that was part of the codex Sinaiticus by the way.
It states that Our Lord was nailed to a cross in the shape of the letter "Tau", or capital T as Shelby states.

Shelby, I never flatter anyone. No attempt to flatter you was made. I would think that to be insulting. I view you with more respect than that.

I say what I mean and I mean what I say.

Rereading that, my comments above were actually directed to the board as a whole as well, and that bit where I said you don't understand was actually to everyone, but, as I said, was directly prompted by Tammy's remarks about God being just the Father and Christ being the Spirit. So wrong, but we won't go there.

And, further, you say you can't compromise truth. But, you see, neither can I. We are alike in more ways than you may realise, though very different in others.

Calvinism, Paul? *shudder*

I understand what you are saying here, and I understand your feeling. Fear. You are afraid to betray Christ as you think you did when you left the RCC. I also hear your deep remorse and guilt, at the thought of having betrayed that one that you do love.

But in your fear... have you 'dug in your heels' and allowed yourself to become blind to the falsehood in the RCC and in some it her teachings... to the point that you won't examine them against Christ's own words?

If you were looking at Him first and foremost, at the least you could use His words to show us where we are false in the things that we share, even though we profess that we share them from Him. Because you must know by now that most here do not recognize any authority other than Christ.




Char you also cannot show that they are not right... according to Christ. If you could, we would have to listen. Because Christ is the one we listen TO.

Know that it is not that I would want you to compromise truth... for me or for anyone... but truth is what Christ teaches. Truth comes from HIM. Listening to something/someone other than HIM is what got us all into the mess of the jws (or any other false thing) to begin with, right? Even if that was out of ignorance.




God IS the Father, and Christ IS the Spirit. Can you show where that is in error?

Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 2nd Corinthians 3:17
Because you are His Sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out 'Abba, Father'. Galatians 4:6


I do not mean to push you where you cannot or do not want to go, yet. But perhaps you could just consider some of these things... and ask Christ to help you hear Him and what HE has to say on these matters.

Peace and love to you,
tammy

Your situation make me think of Israel, dear Char (again, peace to you!):

It SEEMED to some of them, after leaving Egypt, that they had made the wrong decision. While being in Egypt was bad, it wasn't nearly as bad (in some's opinion) as where they were... and what they were experiencing... in the wilderness. They were besought by all manner of danger: wild animals, enemies attacking, hunger, thirst. At one point they even though the man who'd led them OUT, Moses, had abandoned them! And what did they do? Keep moving FORWARD? Or... go BACK... to worshipping a god they had worshipped while in Egypt (in the form of a golden calf)?

Those who turned back, tried to turn back, refused to go forward, refused to follow Moses, refused to obey JAH, murmured, whined, complained... and exhibited FEAR... never made it TO the promised land, dear one. They were ALL laid low, one way or another... JUST OUTSIDE the promised land.

This is NO different, luv. At one point our dear Lord called you OUT of the "pen" that held YOU. Rather than follow HIM... you were misled into following yet ANOTHER "hired man"... who, like the very one you LEFT... allowed the sheep to be snatched and scattered. From one pen of unloving sheep (and if that's not TRUE, then it's you who told that... mmmmm... "tale")... to another. Had you simply TRUSTED... LISTENED to HIS voice... and followed HIM... you would have found HIM... and completely avoided that other shepherd. You didn't, though. Like some of us others, including me, you listened to the voice of strangers.

Once you realized this, however, rather than running FORWARD... to the FINE Shepherd... you ran BACK. Just as Israel and some of those who went with them wanted to do. Difference is, you were allowed to go back... and LIVE... AND you are being given yet ANOTHER chance to WAKE UP... and go OUT... to "meet THE BRIDEGROOM." If the accounts are to be believed, THEY... were not so fortunate.

But no one here is telling or even ASKING you to give up your form of worship, dear Char. We are only sharing with you the TRUTH... so that YOU can, at least, make an INFORMED decision... whatEVER decision you make.

I hope this helps, truly. Seriously.

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar