xjwsforChrist

Realisation that what?

That we all love God? But that our approach is very different?

That's how it seems to me.

Justmom, I wasn't cross.

I wish we were closer to understanding each other.

One thing: I was interested that you said "if it was taught on Sunday through the form of worship you use". A JW meeting, with which you're familiar, is basically just continuous teaching. It always struck me that they would call it worship, because I couldn't see any worship there, even though they would call it the @form of worship Jehovah approves" or "likes". They used to say that about their "family worship". There wasn't any worship.

Most of all, I never detected any holiness, no holy presence.

The Mass is not a vehicle for teaching, as opposed to the continual teaching to the point of indoctrination ongoing throughout all JW gatherings. It is so different there's no comparison.

At root, the Mass is prayer. It's a meeting of God and Man. I wrote then a paragraph describing the Mass but I've deleted it because when I tried to explain things before, people thought I was trying to indoctrinate you all. I don't want to create that kind of misunderstanding again. I know now that it is too different from all you've ever known, justmom, and that all your life you've been taught that the Church is evil. My words here on this forum aren't going to lift that prejudice. To my sorrow.

I wish we could meet and talk. I wish I could show you. But that can't happen, because you would never go to Mass.

I think you are trying to explain to me something deeply believed and held by you and likewise I am trying to show you how much we have in common and why my beliefs differ from yours. But at that level we are far apart and we are each feeling a similar frustration.

A bit like on Star Trek when two completely different civilisations meet and can't understand each other. That's how these kinds of conversations feel to me!

Justmom, when you wrote, above, "Would it be something you would accept then?" What was the "it" you had in mind? I've reread that post several times and still I'm not sure what that question means, but it feels important. Was it about teachings during Mass? Mass isn't a vehicle of teaching like a JW meeting. Mass is totally focused on God. On Christ. In the power of the Spirit.

Zoe, I'll tell you how the thread got changed into a discussion about differences of understanding.

I was daft enough to write, straight from my heart "We are all children of God". Six little words. Straight from the heart.

My brief statement didn't go down too well. We were told it was a lie. You can read the thread's progression from page 4 to page 5. You'll see my tiny statement, to me something that all good Christians know. It's basic. And you can see who posted what and how, as you say, "this whole thread turned into such a big discussion".

I follow Desmond Tutu on Twitter. You will be familiar with this good South African Anglican, and his stance all those years ago against apartheid. This afternoon he tweeted "@TutuLegacy: We are sisters and brothers in God’s family. All of us: Black, white, green, gay, straight, Jew, Muslim, American, Palestinian, Israeli… DT". That is what I was saying. We are all God's children, sisters and brothers in the family of God our Father. Exactly that.

That's what Jesus told us. When he taught us how to pray, he didn't say to call God Jah, or Jehovah. His message was to call Him Father, actually Abba, or Daddy. That makes it clear.

And actually, this is all relevant to the thread, and to the situation of poor little Maria, because she, too, is a child of God.

Lets form the question another way. How would you answer this one, Char:

Is God the father of everyone?



Peace,
tammy

Of course. Did He not create everything?

Just because something is created does not make that something (or someone) a child.

Christ specifically said that God is not the Father of everyone. His words. Black and white. I'm not going to repeat what has already been written, Char, because it is already there. But please, if you think that we are taking his words out of context... can you explain what the context of all of the passages that Shelby listed... truly are, instead?



Peace,
tammy

Justmom, when you wrote, above, "Would it be something you would accept then?" What was the "it" you had in mind? I've reread that post several times and still I'm not sure what that question means, but it feels important. Was it about teachings during Mass? Mass isn't a vehicle of teaching like a JW meeting. Mass is totally focused on God. On Christ. In the power of the Spirit.



Good Morning Char,

The " IT" I was referring to is the subject that was on hand.

All the scriptures, verses, words our Lord said and the teachings of his follows that taught the congregations and disciples that...

" Not ALL people prove they are children of god. That by their fruits, love, hearing, obedience to CHRIST or NOT would prove who their true father is, therefore who they were children of".

That was my question.


Mass is totally focused on God. On Christ. In the power of the Spirit


And the Jehovah's Witnesses claim their meetings are totally focused on God and CHRIST in the power of the spirit as well.

I realize we don't agree. That's okay Char. But even thought I have spent most of my life in the WTBS, I still have to listen and trust when my Lord tells and shows me truth. And when it is even backed up by what is written throughout, why would I dispute it?


That's all,
But enjoy your day.

Love to you always,
Justmom.

Also, no... God did not create everything. God did not create evil, or lies, etc. I'm guessing you know that... but just needed to state it for the sake of truth and clarity.


Peace,
tammy

Surely Chariklo in such a short space of time you couldn't have forgotten our very recent in depth discussion of your "six little words" on this thread here?
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1011&start=15. (See page 2)

On that basis I would suggest that your insertion of those "six little words" here was somewhat provocative, no?


Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Just moms actually, the reason we're not agreeing is because you all just don't know, and don't understand. I don't mean that in a patronising way. It's simple fact. When, for instance, you write of the Catholic Church you make statements that would be impossible for anyone who knew even the least thing about Catholic beliefs or practice.

In the snippets that different people have quoted from the Bible as an apparent refutation of my words, they are just that, snippets. Out of context they are removed from the circumstances where they were uttered. Look back at those passages. What was Jesus' purpose? Was he intending to define fatherhood or was he emphasising the need not to sin? Look for his intention.

Thatx's the problem with out of context quotation. It's all too easy to make it seem to mean what a modern day speaker intends, not what was originally intended. Sorry to say it, but the JW's are past masters at it.

However, personally, I think this thread was Anonomos'. Thread about the little girl Maria. My six words were focused on that. "we are all children of God" is a phrase designed to remind us that each of us is worthy of respect and compassion and should be treated as our sister or brother. I was not making a doctrinal statement. It was written from the heart.

If you insist on pursuing differences in belief...and I think we've been here before and frankly I see little point, and it makes me sad that you feel this need to do so, but if you insist, then don't you think you ought to begin a new thread, out of fairness and courtesy to Anomos and anyone else who is interested in Maria and other Roma children...even other facts about the Roma? I'd have thought that pleasure in cross-questioning the only vocal Catholic in this board would have burned itself out by now, but if you really have to, why not do it somewhere else?

No, Loz, actually not.

I have already said that. It was just written from the heart, because I find what has happened to Maria and the little Irish girl so terribly wrong.

What's the matter, Loz? What's behind your question? Do you read my words and mentally slot them into a file labelled " liar"?

If you do, you are wrong.

In fact, you people call yourselves Christians, and I come to this forum on that assumption, in an ecumenical spirit of fellowship and desire to understand, and an acknowledgement of your sincerity, but when this sort of thing happens absolutely out of the blue in a thread nothing to do with, for instance, Catholics, then suddenly someone, in this case justmom with her mention of Mass, brings it in and then suddenly it's like an anti-Char free for all, out of the blue in the middle of a friendly discussion, and the disruption did NOT come from me.

Not very Christian, is it?

There is no anti-Char, Chariklo, not at all... you are called sister here.

It is nothing against you, Char. But against the falsehood (the lie) that you have been taught, and believe, and repeat.

Perhaps you are getting to it... but again, what IS the context then, of those passages? Specifically. When Christ said that some were doing what THEIR father taught them... and their father was not even Abraham, though they had descended from him?

I don't think that Catholics teach specifics like this based on what is written; and i think the religion is based loosely upon the bible, and greatly upon traditions. I do not state that as anti-catholic rhetoric at all; it is just an observation. So that the details and truths that some might take from Christ's words... are not heard.


No one here is stating that Maria... or anyone... should not be treated in love, from love. Regardless of whether that person is a friend or enemy. We can do that (and are TOLD to do that... be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect; loving ALL, and not just our friends, but also those who set themselves up as our enemies)... AND... without pretending that God IS the Father of everyone. Some choose another father; some choose NO father. Yet, anyone CAN come to Christ and BECOME a child of God. He has opened that way for them.


Peace to you,
tammy

Oh, for goodness sake, they are not "lies that I have been taught and believe and repeat".

Tammy! I am shocked! You were not even a Jehovah's Witness but you are talking in their blinkered manipulative fashion like a lifelong pro!

It's necessary to engage the brain sometimes. Use your intelligence!

I repeat. God is our Father. We are all his children. Disagree if you want but know that those are your own opinions (whether invented by each of you on your own or taught to you by others) and that whatever your opinions, they will have no effect on God nor on His position as Creator and Father of all.

There's only one God. (I really hope that someone here won't come up again with the old JW chestnut related door to door in answer to that statement. Been there, heard that. It's rubbish.)

This dogma is in opposition to scripture, and worse than that, Christ's own words. How can you possibly reconcile that?

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"