xjwsforChrist

The only issue that comes from that is when two people ( or more) say they both heard from Christ and have separate messages/understandings.
That is why tradition played such a powerful role in the early church.
That there were differences even then is clear BUT the fact is that the early church "fathers" were direct students of the Apostles and what they passed on was direct teaching from them.
Now, some will argue that they should have passed on what the HS told them BUT we get back to the same issue:
What to do with two ( or more) contradicting views if Both claim inspiration?
The answer went back to tradition.

Tradition is not the answer though. WE know our Lord's words and warnings regarding tradition. Relying on tradition goes directly against His words, lol... and so for that to have been the 'answer'... well, that should tell us something.


What to do is this:

Test what is shared against what Christ tells us... and follow Him.
Test against love.
Test against what is written, including and especially what Christ is written to have said.


John (I believe it was John, I could be mistaken)... to TEST the inspired expressions. He did not say to follow tradition. Testing, changed, to following tradition.

Because of a LACK of faith in the Spirit.


Peace,
tammy

Test, yes, of course always.
BUT look what you wrote here:

That is tradition because, what was written was the traditions passed on by the eyewitnesses to Christ.
Matthew aside ( perhaps), Mark wrote what Peter told him, Luke wrote the traditions and sources He knew and John's gospel was complied by his disciples on Ephesus.
Even Paul, in his letter to the Corintihians states what is probably the oldest tradition that we have that was passed down to him:

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

Yes, but it was the last thing in my 'tests'. Is something that someone heard and shared supported by what is written... or not? That is for those who cannot (yet) put faith in what they HEAR, but also need to SEE something, to help them put faith in what they hear. (like a learning/training process)

But testing against Christ comes first... and love... and then if another needs help to see the truth in it (and perhaps the person receiving as well, though this is a lacking in faith)... also against what is written.


I'm also not sure that we are understanding the word tradition the same. Those were teachings passed on and witness accounts... but I'm not sure how those can be called traditions?


Peace,
tammy

The moment a teaching is passed on from one generation to another, in ANY form, it becomes a tradition.
A tradition is a belief or behavior passed down within a group or society with symbolic meaning or special significance with origins in the past.

Unfortunately, pass a tradition (even a teaching as you have described) down too many generations (or even just one generation often enough)... and it gets changed, added to or taken away from.

Think of how much has been added to proclaiming Christ, and the good news. We can SEE and even track the changes. Little by little, until the tradition no longer resembles the original teaching/message, etc. So that the 'tradition' now 'nullifies the Word of God'. Christ being the Word of God... and some/many people listening to tradition, over Him.



Peace,
tammy

Very true, it is up to the individual believer to find the balance they need.

Very few people do study the bible, truly.
It isn't easy and I can understand why many find it such a daunting task.

I am just finishing reading this book:
Resurrection of Jesus, The: A New Historiographical Approach by Michael R. Licona (Oct 2010)

It has taken me two months but has given me lost of insight into the NT writings.

Not many people are such gluttons for punishment, LOL !

It is mistake to generalize

Some "traditions" become better with age as the changes might be beneficial. If a tradition is the passing down of any knowledge/teachings from one generation to another in any form then we must be thankful for the traditions of academia

I don't believe that many people listen to tradition over God or Jesus. It may seem that way from the outside because we can't view a person's heart from outward appearances. But for the most part being Christian or Catholic means being a follower of the teachings of Jesus. Some worship by means of ritual and some free style

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Pretty much correct.
The vast majority of believers are moderates that are very happy letting God decide "who is right and in what way".

Shelby, can you go into more detail about death being IN Jah? I apologize if I've missed it; I've not been able to focus very well on the thread.

I guess I'm not knowing how death could be there in Jah, and yet still be His enemy?

Well, no, dear HP (peace!): if I shared with you what HE said... then it's HIS version, no? I mean, if a man has his secretary write down what HE says... whose words are they? The secretary's? Or his?



Yes, I totally agree.



It means the first, although there is the second, as well.



But that's you, though, right, dear one? And I wouldn't use it, either... except there are yet unbelievers, those who need to see it in writing. Rather than ask. But I DO ask... and while I understand that some may not wish to put faith in what I share (and who I say I receive it from)... OR ask for themselves... that has no bearing on what I should do. I have to share the TRUTH with you, dear one... regardless of whether YOU believe it IS the truth. For MY sake and that of MY household. Not you and yours. My work is not like that of, say, others who go "mak(ing) disciples." Such ones will say whatever they think they NEED to in order to "add" to their religion/church... perhaps even (in their minds and hearts) Christ.

That is not the case with me: I simply listen to him and obey what HE says... and share that. IF, by my doing so, such that resonates with ANOTHER... such that that one wants to come to Christ... then that's COOL! But that's on him and THEM... NOT me. I cannot draw anyone to Christ (only JAH can and does)... and I cannot bring anyone to JAH (only Christ can do that). ALL I can do... is obey HIS voice... and share that (feed whomever is "thirsting").

Now, that some don't GET that... or AGREE with that... is of no concern to ME: to his/her own master each one will stand or fall. I have to obey MY master... regardless of who likes/dislikes/agrees/disagrees with that. It's not about pleasing people, dear one - it's about pleasing Christ... and God THROUGH Christ. When the dust settles, no one's going to be able to say, "Well, no, the people didn't BELIEVE/WANT me (to) me, so I didn't say/do, Lord." That would be the response of the one given only ONE talent/mina. I've been given a couple/few more than one... and I intend to spend every one of them.

Now, my "money" I've been given to spend may not be good in ALL marketplaces, no... but I will "spend" it wherever I can. But understand this: it was GIVEN to me; it was/is not MINE. And so, WHEN I spend it, I'm not about to go around trying to get people to think it IS mine... and that I am "buying" for MYSELF. It is my Lord and master's money... entrusted to me... to spend on HIS behalf. And so, I acknowledge from Whom I received it. And if HIS money says that "money" others have spent/are spending is "counterfeit"... well, then, I believe that. And I will share that truth with others, just in CASE they want to know. If they don't... so be it. Sooner or later, though, they're gonna try to "buy" with those "counterfeit" bills they've received... and guess what? No oil/eyesalve for them. Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:13



It was, yes! Please know, though, that I don't NEED... you... or anyone... to believe me. Which understanding would go a great way, I think, toward you and some others understanding WHY I receive what I do: it isn't about being believed OR liked, etc. It just IS... because it's the TRUTH. I promise you (as I have promised many others): if it was occurring with YOU as it occurs with ME... you would do the same thing. You really couldn't do different. And you wouldn't care, either, who believed you or not. Because you wouldn't being doing it to "count bodies". If a million zillion people believed me... or if absolutely no one did... nothing would change. Because it is the TRUTH... and so I do it because I have received it FROM the Truth (John 14:6). Which is something I can't CHANGE... unless I WANT to delude myself. So, whether ANY other human person receives it... or refrains... it totally irrelevant to me.

Now, I realize that that is perhaps difficult for some others to grasp. Why? Because THEIR thinking is that we should WANT people to like/accept/think well of us. And so because THEY want that/think that way, they think EVERYONE should want that/think that way. When it comes to Christ, however, they are greatly mistaken. The ONLY One(s) that folks should care whether they are liked by/think like... is JAH and Christ. But try to convince mankind of that and... ah, well...



It depends on that, yes... OR... on who one is LISTENING to. Yes? Now, if one doesn't really care about TRUTH, then one is apt to accept whichever "interpretation" makes them "feel" best. Or "sounds good" to them. Or will keep them out of trouble with those they love... associate/identify/worship with... or those who "rule" over them in some manner and seek the MAKE them believe what THEY want them to believe.

If they are TRULY concerned with TRUTH, however, then it seems to ME that the best way to KNOW that... is to go to the One who SAID it... and ask HIM what He meant by it. Then... there can be NO mistaking. If that One says, "Anything you want from ME, even information, accurate knowledge, truth... you must go to THIS (another) One to get it...", then if one TRULY wants to know... one should go to the One s/he was so directed, yes? Yet, I can find NOWHERE where I am told to go to anyone except Christ. And so... I went to Christ.

That you and some others don't (yet) have the faith to DO that... cannot be blamed on ME, dear one. And I think I can say, with certainty, that you HAVEN'T... because I see nowhere where you state/admit/offer that you HAVE/DID. Rather, I see where you offer that your own understanding is what you consider best. And that's entirely okay: it's not MY choice, but totally okay as yours - I don't judge you. But I am also not going to deny what occurs with ME... and from/by WHOM... because YOU (and others) haven't reached that point in your faith... yet.

One shouldn't turn around and go back to those who are lingering behind just to linger behind WITH them. If/when one goes back... it should be to ASSIST those... in making up LOST TIME AND GROUND... so as to bring them UP... to the place further along the path where YOU are. Yes? And sometimes, it takes a little "running" to catch up TO that place. Yes?

You don't have to believe me, dear Pup, not at all. I promise you... and everyone: I won't lose sleep if you don't. I WILL lose sleep, however, if I don't listen to my Lord, the HOLY ONE of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... and share what HE gives me... just AS he gives it to me... with WHOM he wishes me to share it. THAT will keep me up. I promise you.

I hope that helps clarify and, again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

This is true, dear Zoe (peace to you!). But let me ask you: can you truly HAVE love... BE loving... if you're NOT speaking truth to the one you claim TO love... when you CAN speak truth to them? Or is it better to be more concerned with your flesh... and whether people "like" you... or believe you? Of course, not all conversations call for truth. For example, if you are a Jew and I am hiding you from oppressors... and such oppressors are questioning me as to your whereabouts. Since I KNOW they mean you no harm, I might not tell THEM the truth. But my not doing so is because of my love for YOU.

But when the conversations CALLS for truth... for instance, when one is discussing another with others... and one KNOWS that what is being said ABOUT such other one... is NOT true... would not love, if not loyalty... FOR that other one... COMPEL one to speak the truth... and, if possible, offer up support FOR that truth?

I promise you, if someone here or elsewhere posted something about YOU that was not true, I would be among those to try and set the record accurate. EVEN if I KNEW that doing so would cause such people to no longer "like" or wish to agree with ME. I don't care about that - they can hate me for all I care. I CARE... that they are speaking false... even if they don't know or intend it... as to YOU.

I'm the girl who will speak up, luv... when someone is being lied on (and ESPECIALLY when the lie is as to God and Christ... or things/people/events related to THEM)... and let the Adversary be damned. Not YOU... OR God/Christ. Because (1) that's the RIGHT thing to do; (2) it is the UNcowardly thing to do); and (3) I don't really CARE what folks of THIS life think of ME; I care about what those who can grant me a place in the NEXT life think of me.

I hope this helps!

Again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

I understand where you are coming from Shelby

As for certainties about myself... Lol you thought I was an atheist twice

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

I'm the girl who will speak up, luv... when someone is being lied on (and ESPECIALLY when the lie is as to God and Christ... or things/people/events related to THEM)... and let the Adversary be damned. Not YOU... OR God/Christ. Because (1) that's the RIGHT thing to do; (2) it is the UNcowardly thing to do); and (3) I don't really CARE what folks of THIS life think of ME; I care about what those who can grant me a place in the NEXT life think of me.


She is....I'll vouch for that!

I've SEEN It !! I've HEARD it!!!

Love ya Justmom

I did think that, dear Pup (peace!)... but that could've been because I was told that. Not sure. Can't remember. I am SO glad you've since corrected me, though! LOLOLOL!

Peace!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar