xjwsforChrist

Remember the pointing hand. You point one finger at me and those churchgoers you deride but four fingers point back at yourself.

It's not the churchgoers at fault, it's the leaders who fail them.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

The "stumbling stone" that Christ was ( to the Jews mind you) is because of HOW He died ( Crucified/hung on a "tree") AND for the gentiles, His resurrection.

Peter was, however, the "rock" upon which the early church was formed.
He was such ( along with the two other "pillars", John and James) because of his faith AND his LACK of faith.
While John remained steadfast in being with Jesus through it all, he still believed it over when Jesus died.
James has never believed until the risen Christ came to him and then because of his faith ( and being Jesus' brother) he became a "pillar" in the early Church.
Peter was the "unofficial" head because, well, He was such during Jesus' life time and even though He denied Christ, Jesus forgave him and gave him gave him the responsibility to "care and feed" his sheep.

Thank you, Paul!

It is so good to have you back and to be a bit less of a lone voice crying in a very bleak and deprived wilderness.

I don't like snide remarks Char, so, please stop.

These passages always touch me....:

The Love Motivation

15 So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus *said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He *said to him, “Tend My lambs.” 16 He *said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He *said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.” 17 He *said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus *said to him, “Tend My sheep.

Our Times Are in His Hand

18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go.” 19 Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He *said to him, “Follow Me!”

What was the snide remark?

I meant it! I WAS glad you were back.....

Where is the snidity? What harm or hurt was I trying to inflict, because that is always there in a snide remark. This forum is full of them, but absolutely not from me, and I do not like snide remarks either! Very much not. And especially, I do not like being accused of being snide when I have just said, with completely open heart and in total sincerity that I am really and truly glad to see a person back.

Why so antagonistic all of a sudden?

Good grief. What a place! What a place!

Look at what you wrote:


Calling this forum a "very bleak and deprived wilderness" and saying that yours was the "lone voice", comes off as, IMO, a snide remark.

Now, don't get me wrong, you have been the victim of many a slide remark as well but that, however, doesn't mean you should throw any of those out yourself.

Yes, but I don't think this the only thing that stumbled them...




Jhn 6:53 Jesus, therefore, said to them, `Verily, verily, I say to you, If ye may not eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and may not drink his blood, ye have no life in yourselves;

Jhn 6:54 he who is eating my flesh, and is drinking my blood, hath life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day;

Jhn 6:55 for my flesh truly is food, and my blood truly is drink;

Jhn 6:56 he who is eating my flesh, and is drinking my blood, doth remain in me, and I in him.

Jhn 6:57 `According as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, he also who is eating me, even that one shall live because of me;

Jhn 6:58 this is the bread that came down out of the heaven; not as your fathers did eat the manna, and died; he who is eating this bread shall live -- to the age.'
Jhn 6:59 These things he said in a synagogue, teaching in Capernaum;

Jhn 6:60 many, therefore, of his disciples having heard, said, `This word is hard; who is able to hear it?'

Jhn 6:61 And Jesus having known in himself that his disciples are murmuring about this, said to them, `Doth this stumble you?


Jhn 6:62 if then ye may behold the Son of Man going up where he was before?
Jhn 6:63 the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;
Jhn 6:64 but there are certain of you who do not believe;' for Jesus had known from the beginning who they are who are not believing, and who is he who will deliver him up,
Jhn 6:65 and he said, `Because of this I have said to you -- No one is able to come unto me, if it may not have been given him from my Father.'


Jhn 6:6 From this [time] many of his disciples went away backward, and were no more walking with him,


Love Justmom

Char,

I, myself, do not know much about “British churchgoers” as you seem to know, nor do I care much for what “British churchgoers” know or not know. I know very few British people in my life. The few I have actually met, I liked. However, I know not whether those I did meet were “churchgoers” or not.

What I do care about is the thoughts and feelings of those with whom I do converse—such as you, Char, here on this board, their ethnicity, culture, country, nationality, all being irrelevant.

Knowing chapter and verse, while nice, is really not necessary. However, remembering a biblical text, and knowing that you once read it somewhere in the Bible, makes it relatively easy to look up chapter and verse. The point here being, “I know this verse and I know it’s in the Bible. I just have to find it,” regardless of whether it comes up in your mind or someone else states it—you remember and know the particular verse spoken of, that it is in the Bible, and you CAN find it. And, no, not everyone remembers everything they once read in the Bible, but one can at least respect someone stating or alluding to a biblical phrase and ASK where it is, such as you did. However, one doesn’t have to ask such a question with obvious sarcasm. Which, in fact, you did, Char.

Why you consider the textual Biblical phrase “Stone of Stumbling” as a “new appellation” is most interesting.

Question to you: Regardless of who on this board uttered it, do you NOW see that the biblical phrase “Stone of Stumbling” is not a “new appellation”? That it is, in fact, almost two thousand years old?

--Armand

Yes, I almost never know chapter/verse myself. I do remember... or my Lord reminds me... of what is written though (and sometimes who wrote/said it, and what book it is in).

But then I can simply google the phrase, and get the chapter/verse to show others and/or support something that He has taught. Though once He told me what book to look for a verse that I was trying to find (without google), and I did not listen to him, but looked in Matthew, Mark and Luke, relying on my own 'smarts'... before finally going to John as He first directed me, and finding the thing I searched for.

*rolls eyes at self*


Peace to you,
tammy

We learn by reading
We master by doing

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

I can't tell you how many times I've too done this. Sometimes he tells me exactly where it is? Sometimes as well just the thought and I have to reference it. But the sound of truth which is CHRIST telling you is there, and the second witness as where it is written. I love when this happens!

Love Justmom

I would say....

We learn by listening ( to Holy Spirit )
And master by obeying ( or doing )

Justmom

P.s. although we do learn by reading HP. I agree. Just can't believe everything you read. LoL!

Please explain this, dear P (peace to you!)... as I am pretty certain the Jews stumbled over my Lord BEFORE he died. It was their STUMBLING... that caused them to call for his death, luv. As to the Gentiles, as well... because I am not sure THEY stumbled over him... but in fact FOLLOWED him... when the JEWS stumbled. Indeed, it was the Jews STUMBLING... that opened the way FOR the Gentiles... was it not? Please, share what you mean?



Goodness, not THAT again... Seriously, people? Please... PLEASE... show us where Peter was named the "rock" on which my Lord was to build his Body/church. Please. And if you're going to refer to where Peter's FAITH... IN the Rock... was why he was renamed "Petra"... please know that MY name ALSO means "rock" (yep, it does!)... but that doesn't mean my Lord is building his church on me.



Dear one, you do realize that that was merely Paul's OPINION... HIS perception... perhaps based on the OPINION of others, yes? And that he had it only because the others weren't as vocal as these? AND that he ultimately came to think perhaps not? A review of the account regarding Paul's introduction to the Apostles... as set down by Luke... will explain this, along with an understanding of the verse at Galatians 2:9 (which is what led you to believe this to be a FACT, which it is not). In that verse, Paul is giving his opinion as to what it APPEARED these were, what some reputed them to be... but that doesn't make it so. That someone is more vocal or takes the lead... doesn't mean they ARE the lead.



Yes. As did the others, particularly Thomas. Yet, that original faith... and subsequent lack of it... didn't make these any LESS pillars than the other... or the others MORE pillars than them. Christ did not and does not work that way.

Indeed, IF he was going to raise up one Apostle over the others... it would have been one who not only had such GREAT faith that, unlike the others, HE did not run and hide... but stood with my Lord's mother, Mary, when my Lord was impaled... faith SO great that my Lord trusted the care of his own mother TO that one. The one for whom my Lord had the most AFFECTION. And that was not Peter, James, OR John... but Simon, the Kanaen (Zealot) aka Simon the Leper... aka Lazarus... the brother of Martha and Mary of Magdala (thus, the Magdalene)... with whom he resided in Bethany whenever he visited Jerusalem.



Why, though, would my Lord raise JAMES... his brother who only came to have faith in him LATER... over one of the TWELVE... to whom he said, "YOU have stayed with me THROUGH MY TRIALS"?? He didn't even acknowledge James as his BROTHER... while he was ALIVE. James didn't even RECOGNIZE him as Christ while he was alive. At what TIME, then... did Christ "name" JAMES... as a "pillar"? He didn't, dear one. When Paul made that statement to Timothy, Paul himself was newly acquainted with the Apostles and disciples... and so, again, was only expressing his OPINION. Please... not only read the verse... but look up the Greek words. Please.

Peter was the "unofficial" head because, well, He was such during Jesus' life time and even though He denied Christ, Jesus forgave him and gave him gave him the responsibility to "care and feed" his sheep.

Wait... where did you get THAT? Peter was the most PRESUMPTOUS... and so had to be continually CORRECTED. When my Lord said to him, "Feed my sheep"... he wasn't bestowing a privilege on Peter - he was telling Peter to... ONCE AND FOR ALL... WALK THE TALK! Do you not remember that although our Lord TOLD Peter that he would deny him... PETER denied what our Lord TOLD him? As if HE knew BETTER? Yet, he was proved wrong, wasn't he? Do you not remember, when demanding to be allowed to walk on water... Peter SUNK? Why? Because HE LACKED FAITH. Do you not remember that when it came time to have their feet wash, Peter first tried to stop our Lord... then wanted more than his feet washed? Do you not remember that it was PETER who tried to talk our Lord OUT of giving his life? Do you not remember how it was Peter to lashed out and cut off the soldier's ear... only to have our Lord tell him that if he lived by the sword he would DIE by it? I ask you: how did Peter DIE?

The "lesson" of Peter is NOT that Peter was raised UP. The LESSON is so that we can SEE Peter... and see how his presumptuous caused him to have to be corrected... again... and again... and again... even by Paul... and possible to the detriment of his own life! Peter asserted that he would NOT deny Christ... that he LOVED Christ. Well, on several occasions his CONDUCT "proved" otherwise. And so our dear Lord gave dear Peter one last way to "prove" his love: NOT be the head of his (Christ's) church... but to NOT BEG OFF... and go do what he would be sent to do! NOT run away... NOT deny! SHOW his love!

I am SO sad that some of you have placed Peter where you have... because it is not what Christ did... or wanted. He SAID "He that is greatest among must be LEAST." Yet, as you can see by the record, dear presumptuous Peter NEVER learned that lesson! But... our Lord KNEW he wouldn't... just as he KNEW Peter would (1) sink in the water, (2) cut off the man's ear, and (3) deny him. So... in order to SAVE Peter... FROM HIMSELF... from his OWN presumptuousness and lack of HUMILITY... he gave Peter something he COULD do: share with others of Christ's sheep what had been given HIM.

That's it and that's all... dear, dear P. Truly. Yet, you dear folks are now raising up yet another for folks to look at. I ask you: if folks are looking at PETER... how in the WORLD are they to see CHRIST?? Peter is not the image of Christ, dear one, at least, no more than any of the others.

Finally, if Peter was as you dear ones believe him to be... why... oh, why... wasn't HE given the revelation... instead of John?? Why was JOHN the one so privileged? And please do not tell me because John was the disciple our dear Lord loved. Because that was Lazarus.

I will share with you why John was chosen (of course, I asked... especially when I found out the one folks THINK was John was actually Lazarus!)... but I would like to read your understanding, first. Please, I need you to explain these things further... because they are all quite disturbing. Quite. But also revealing. Because I now think I can understand why some can't hear... or see... Christ: Peter is standing "in the Way."

Oh, dear...

Ah, well. Off to finish re holy spirit...

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

I was typing to a wider audience than just Christians
Mastery is also about choosing what to read and what to ignore

_________________
To fear me is to love me....