xjwsforChrist

Yes, Shelby.

You've said that before. Just one reason why the likelihood of your Lord being Jesus Christ the Son of God becomes ever more minimal.

Yes, Tammy. That too is familiar false teaching. That's what the Jehovah's Witnesses say, and believe me, (oh, that's right, you won't, but hey, never mind, eh?) I know their teachings very, very well.

What difference does it make to me who else teaches it? I did not learn it from the wts. It was not taught to me by them.

I learned it from Christ, the Holy Spirit... HE opened my eyes as to what that verse truly meant... over what some men 'traditionally' state that it means, over what anyone else states and/or teaches.

So odd to me, that Christ was no 'fan' of tradition... and yet the RCC touts tradition as a basis to remain in her, that she is true. And those in her don't even see this... same as those in the wts who don't see how they do the very opposite of what Christ taught, and instead follow what He taught against.

But you are correct... I won't believe you... not over my Lord.

You almost sound as though you are "rebuking" me for NOT believing you, instead.

Peace,
tammy

The person you should believe is our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Well, apparently, Peter said it, too, dear Char (peace!):

"As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through [Jesus] Christ. For in Scripture it says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”

Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,

“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”[c]

and,

“A stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”

They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for."

1 Peter 2:4-8


Somehow, I don't think Peter meant that "rock" was him.

My wish for peace remains.

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Well, my Lord and Savior... Jaheshua (known by some by that name, in various spellings/versions like Yeshua, Y'shua, Yaheshua, etc... and some also by Jesus or the Christ, as long as we are not speaking about the 'golden calf' that some have created around that name), the Messiah, the Holy Spirit and Truth... HE is the One who taught me that His Church is built upon the faith that Peter showed.

But I am glad for you that you have not said that I should listen to anyone else, not even you... over Him.


Peace to you,

tammy

Tammy, you just have no idea. You are all so at sea.

S'okay, dear Char (peace!): our Lord is the calmer of the sea, as both Peter and Jonah saw.

He also led Israel through the wilderness for 40 years. They had to not only pick up camp... but the tabernacle... literally... and carry it around while they followed HIM. The grand edifices that became the permanent temple(s) did not save them, though, did they? Rather, they came to represent nothing more than a false symbol of strength... which symbol did nothing to keep Israel from being ravished by her enemies, at least three major times.

We can look to "visible representations of the Lord on earth," in the form of religious institutions... and their grand complexes, cities, and amassed membership... or we can look to and at Christ, alone.

Each one must choose for himself/herself... and his/her household. As for me and MY household... we shall follow the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... and THAT One has sent a Light ahead of us: His Son and Christ, the HOLY ONE of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). HIS Lamb... who we will follow wherever HE goes.

YOU... must follow whomsoever YOU will... and I bid you no illwill in doing so. Indeed, I bid you the same peace as I always have... regardless of your path.

My wish for peace to you remains.

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Dear Shelby, you are in a muddle. That word again, Loz, your cue to come in, I think!

You think that some believe Jesus works through the Catholic Church.

Char, refer to your statement in the last sentence.


Shelby, you should read your Bible more. You know, Jesus said wherever two or three are gathered together in his name he would grant their request. How can you think that Jesus needs someone or some thing to work through? Jesus is the Son of God, remember!


Char, refer to your statement in the last sentence.


That's why people are Catholics. That's why they continue to follow Peter, and that is one reason why they remain loyal to the One Holy and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus himself on Peter.

First mistake that goes *GONG* with me! They CONTINUE to follow Peter?...why not Christ?...

And that's all quite apart from the sheer beauty and love within the Church, found there because of the Real Presence of God, the forgiveness of God, in his mercy and by his good grace, constantly poured out by him on each and every humble penitent, together and individually. Peace and joy and hope and love envelope all there, and Jesus comes to us spiritually and physically in every Mass, the Lamb of God sacrificed for us upon the Cross.


Peace and joy and hope and love ENVELOPE ALL THERE! History proves that is a LIE!
Acts 17:24. Refers to your FIRST statement. I though he doesn't use handmade temples.

But I have told you many times that the Roman Catholic Church is the Body of Christ, Shelby, along with all Christian believers. It's not the first time you've heard it, and why you should doubt it when you know perfectly well that Jesus told Peter he would build his church on him, and that he prayed that his followers would all be done, defeats me.

Contradicts your FIRST sentence Char


Just something I noticed Char
Love Justmom

Don't be silly, justmom! Or is it that in your part of the world no-one uses a figure of speech.

Of course they follow Jesus. It is only Jesus that I follow. They and I do so as part of the worldwide family of Christians, those who belong to Jesus Christ, with Peter and his successor (because Peter was mortal!) in the One Holy and Apostolic Church. You don't, apparently.

Shelby, you say "Jesus the Christ". Did you dabble in the New Age, I wonder? The only other people who don't (or can't) say Christ are New Age adherents, who call him "the Christ". They do so to indicate that to them he is what they call an Ascended Master, one of several. It's not Christianity.

Why do you call him "the Christ"? I think you have a son. Do you call him "the boy", or are you like most people and use his name? Why not for Jesus? He asked us to.

I just saw your attempt at this evening's spitefulness. Loz said I had no friends here. You, Shelby apparently have invented some fictional ones who are sniggering. If they are, I hope they're having fun, though I suspect that they live in your head. I meant real people whose names you know, but who daren't be openly in agreement with me for wariness of your reaction. I think you'll be more comfortable with your fictional, invented ones, of whom one or two may well be sniggering. Great!

What could be wrong with saying the Christ?

He IS the Christ. The Messiah. The Anointed One. Just as He is the Truth. The Life. The Word.


Just for a point of clarity though, please re-read Shelby's last post on this thread and see how often she also says simply 'Christ'... without a 'the' in front of it.

This is a non-issue, Char. There is nothing behind it. Nothing at all.

As for using the name of Christ... I'm not sure how you can ask question why she does not use His name. She does in almost every post: Jaheshua.


Peace,
tammy

Don't be silly, justmom! Or is it that in your part of the world no-one uses a figure of speech.

Char, I'm not being silly! I am very serious. These are misleading, contradictory to scripture and goes against what our Lord and His Father by means of Holy Spirit has told and warned us about.

Our Lord cannot and would not dwell in a building where its members follow a disciple of HIS own, Peter, and a Pope ( regardless of how nicer this one seems to be) that has become a leader and mediator and god to many, a visible golden calf who tens of millions give their loyal support, devotion, money and spiritual lives in the hand of!

These comments are not a figure of speech but a way to mislead people into believing that the RCC once again is a better, cleaner, more truthful alternative.

For this, I cannot keep silent.
Love to you as always Char
Justmom

Wait! I almost overlooked all of THIS and then my Lord said to go back and read "more thoroughly". So, THANK you (and peace to you!), dear Char... for giving me yet another opportunity to share the TRUTH... and set some SERIOUS errors on YOUR part straight! (And thank YOU, my Lord... for so directing me, as I did almost overlook this...):



Yet, the APOSTLES are the Foundation. ALL of them. NOT just Peter. As you next state:



Yep! ALL of them, not just Peter. But, oops... there you go: contradicting yourself again. Not only that, you apparently think Peter wasn't one OF the Apostles ("Peter... and the apostles"). The term "apostles" INCLUDES Peter, dear one.



Both Paul and John, who were apostles... and John one of the 12... disagree with you:

Paul - "For the Lord is the SPIRIT..." 2 Corinthians 3:17

John - "And we have an Advocate/Helper/Comforter/Paraclete with the Father... [Jesus] Christ..." - 1 John 2:1

I don't think you and dear Paul (peace, luv!) agreeing on this (and I'm not all that sure dear Paul DOES agree with you) overrides what Paul and John wrote. Maybe... but I don't think so. You'll have to show me some kind of backup to get ME to believe it.



Well, girl, no one said THAT. Of COURSE, they're not the only ones who believe it. Still doesn't make it truth.



See, though, no one from the EOC is here trying to get others to believe it. Even so... there WAS a divergence... regardless of when. The Christ is not divided, though.



Now, why in the WORLD would Andrew, a FOUNDATION stone himself... take a church built on PETER to Russia? Why wouldn't he take a church built on HIMSELF? Peter wasn't greater than him! I mean, if ANDREW... one of the TWELVE... took Peter to Russia... why didn't PAUL take Peter to... Corinth? Galatia? Thessolonica? Philippi? Colossae? Rome? Lystra? Iconium? Ephesus? Antioch?

If PETER was the "head" of the Church... why did PAUL, who wasn't even one of the TWELVE... have to PUBLICLY... CALL him on his hypocrisy... even saying he was to blame/accused/condemned?? Galatians 2:11-14



I have no argument with this, dear Char. I am in TOTAL agreement with you that many took "that same faith and hope and trust IN [JESUS]... NOT Peter, as you assert... which Christ passed on to ALL of the Apostles, INCLUDING but not limited TO Peter... and spread it across the world. Christ SAID they would be witnesses... of HIM "in all Judea, and Samaria, AND to the distant parts of the earth." So, we are in agreement here. I also agree that those who did take that message knew my Lord. And no, I don't think they would have gone against what my Lord DID... which was built his church upon faith in HIM... NOT faith in PETER... as YOU assert.



Well, if THAT's the reason, well, then...



Wait... WHY would the Body of Christ... which is led BY Christ... need REFORMATION??? Would not Christ have full control over HIS Body/Church?



Do you not SEE the contradictions, dear Char? Do you not SEE.. no, I guess you don't. So let me point out to you what you want US to believe is bound to Christ:



If the Catholic Church was Christ's BODY, though, how could that BE? What, the hands no longer needed the eyes? The feet wanted to be ears?? And where/what are those "DIFFERENT churches" and groups? Is there not ONE Body? How can there be DIFFERENT churches and groups in Christ's ONE Body???

AND... the split FROM the "Catholic Church". Which means THAT "church" became fragmented... yes? But how can THAT be??? HOW... can the BODY of Christ... fragment??

Then you say:



ALMOST without exception??? Girl, you are REALLY clutching at 'em, aren't you? ALMOST without exception? Doesn't that mean there WAS exception?? But... how can THAT be... when we're talking about the BODY OF CHRIST?? If everyone in that Body has received the SAME Spirit... on what BASIS can there BE splits and "different" churches and groups... and exceptions??

THEN you state:



Yet another split... west from east. But... the Body is "united" according to you. HOW... Char??? HOW can their be "different" churches and groups and splits and divergences... yet... unity???



NOW, perhaps... and even that's not totally accurate, IS it? Sure, they outwardly support one another, but if there was TRUE communion... there would BE "the Catholic and Orthodox churches. There would be ANY "churchES"... but there is only ONE Body. ONE hope, ONE faith... ONE Lord. So, while these may have a sharing of some sort... it CANNOT be a sharing in CHRIST... because CHRIST... ONLY HAS ONE CHURCH... and it is NOT divided, dear Char.



Dear one... you just pointed OUT... how Christianity is NOT united... but how it is DIVIDED. Do you not SEE that? No, I don't suppose you don't. I am most grateful, though, for giving ME the opportunity... and support... to show it!



You're kidding, right? You truly believe he prayed that his followers should have different churches... with one of them built on Peter... and the others built on... well, per you, Peter, too... and not HIM? You TRULY believe that, dear Char?



I'm sorry but... LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Char... dear, DEAR Char... "since the REFORMATION"... and "split... after split"... and "little tiny groups"... and "splintering off"... and "choosing their OWN way"... ISN'T UNITY, girl! It's DIVISION! You know: REFORM. SPLIT. SPLINTERING. CHOOSING their OWN way (versus Christ, the Way).

To make it even more hilarious, I marvel that you don't seem to have problem with this... OR "little tiny groups"... yet cannot seem to refrain from repeatedly condemning US... for being... well, little and tiny! Or OUR choosing CHRIST as our Way! LOLOLOLOLOL! Dear one, you seriously cannot seem to stop contradicting yourself!!



Dear Char... dear, dear, DEAR Char... split after split... and splintering... isn't "together," luv. It really isn't. It is DIVISION... and SEPARATION. Please... look up the words!



Holy spirit is the only thing that ensure the spreading of the good news, dear one. Christ... through holy spirit. Because it is only those who HAVE holy spirit who can SHARE the good news... and its TRUTH. The rest is nothing more than rhetoric, falsehoods, and propaganda.



Well, we can agree on that, too. And that they are in error. But they don't do it make disciples of Christ, though. Not by any stretch. The corporation does it to make money - the people do it make disciples of the corporation.



Yeah, they really made a stretch there, didn't they? But did you know that the Vatican officials who pass down theological law, who write catechisms and such... ARE a "governing" body? With the Pope as CEO? Well, figuratively. I am sure that just as with the WTBTS GB, there are those pulling the strings behind him, too. Else, I don't think the previous one would be in seclusion. SOMEONE (besides himself) made THAT decision FOR him.



MOST are Catholic because that's the religion they were born into/raised up in. Or one that is close. Like Anglican.



Well, then, THAT explains it! But at least be consistent and SAY that, dear Char, that they follow PETER... and STOP trying to say they follow CHRIST. Because they can't being doing both, can they? I follow Christ. Not Peter, not Paul, not James, not Jude, not Andrew, not Benedict, not Henschel, not Robertson, not Ghandi, not the Dali Lama, not Buddha, not Timothy, not Mary, not anyone else... but Christ.



So... no need for Christ... because he put PETER in his seat, right? That's what we're supposed to believe? Sorry, dear one... but no. I can't buy THAT particular bit of melarkey. Peter can't save me. He couldn't even save himself. Couldn't even walk on water... couldn't stop himself from denying my Lord... couldn't help his own hypocrisy... and cannot save me. So, I'm gonna stick with the One PETER looked to: the HOLY ONE of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). For ME... there is no other. Not even Peter.



That does sound nice, dear Char, it really does. I don't think some of the "Churches" victims would share your view... but it does sound nice, girl. You keep on putting your faith in Peter, then...



Except the victims, though, right? And not just the sexually abused, but... say, the hung, racked, burned (at the stake AND in ovens), tortured, drowned, dunked/waterboarded, impaled, torn apart, sawn asunder, disembowled, aborted, poisoned, stabbed, shot, put in iron maidens, blinded, detongued, castrated, crushed, buried alive, boiled, flagelated, whipped, beaten, tarred and feathered, fed alive to all manner of beasts, had burning oil poured in their ears, left naked and exposed so as to have their flesh picked from the bone by carrion and/or scavengers, starved, decimated, hornswaggled... and whatever other way one could be hurt, harmed, maimed, blinded, and/or [ultimately] put to death... or wish they were...

Yeahhhh, I'm thinkin' THOSE folks didn't really experience all that peace, have all that joy, look toward all that hope... or feel all that love... enveloping THEM. More like wanting death to envelope them, just to end the torture and pain.



Really, Char? REALLY? Hmmm... well, he musta' missed Mass last week, 'cause he was somewhere in Fresno, California... making a tree cry "real" tears:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3ysotAOjLQ

(I hate to burst your bubble, luv... well, that of your faithful brethren... but expert arborists state that those "tears"... believed by your faithful brethen to be GOD's tears... is really just aphid poop. Not sure how that equates to tears from God... but, well, I mean, if one MUST have their faith in something... other than Christ... why NOT aphid poo?)



Was in Fresno this past weekend crying aphid poo on the "faithful"? I don't think so, dear Char. Truly. I truly think he has MUCH better things to do. Like lead those who are TRULY faithful... such as they HEAR his voice when he speaks to them... into ALL truth.

My wish for peace for you remains... along with my wish that you would really consider what you post. Really.

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Yes. That's why we need God's grace and stop judging anyone. We have our own burden to bear. But Christ even carried it into Himself.

This argument has been going on since the birth of the Church. I really think its not helping anyone. Just as a reminder, I'm pasting what apostle Paul has written before (I hope I'm not adding fuel to the fire ) :

For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Ultimately, we are all of Christ apart and above the divisions and denominations and differences that surrounds us in this old world.

WOW!! and WOW!!!!!

That's all I can say as to your response from the spirit Shelby.

But it does truly sadden my heart as to how many are blinded to this. Add this number to the JWs around the world. It's a lot of people looking to the wrong source of TRUTH!

Thank you for sharing what you hear once again
Love to you my sister Justmom