xjwsforChrist

I posted this on another board but thought you all might find it interesting as well. This is a conversation I had recently with a friend of mine:



by Hellpuppy » Sat May 04, 2013 11:50 pm
Had a chat with a friend that I haven't contacted in a couple years. I noticed that her Facebook posts were starting to take on a biblical tone that seemed very Watchtowerish. What follows is our conversation:

Puppy: Alo Sakura It's me Gammy. Have you been studying with the Watchtower Society?

Sakura: Yes, I am studying with JW

Puppy: For a long time now or is this new?

Sakura: For two years now. Why?

Puppy: I know many people that used to study with them.

Sakura: Oh, I am not baptized bit I respect JW people because they don't attend war.

Puppy: Many have bad experiences with "shunning"

Sakura: You mean JW people don't communicate with no JW?

Puppy: Yes, Or if a daughter is a Jehovah's Witness and her mom is not or left the Watchtower then the daughter does not talk to the mother. Many families have been broken apart by this. So I worry for you.

Sakura: Thank you for your advise. My mom is a witness. She is very nice person still even though I was not studying at all.

Puppy: Ah then I understand:) your dad as well?

Sakura: No, not my dad. But my dad is kind of opposing.

Puppy: The shunning only occurs if a person is baptized and then leaves the Society.

Sakura: I just love our Heavenly Father. I know what you mean.

Puppy: I understand:) I am Christian as well

Sakura: I am not going to get baptized until I understand the organization. I love studying the bible a lot. And they are the one to study bible so much. That is why I still with them.

Puppy: *nod nod nod*

Sakura: I u nderstand your worry a lot. JW people wants to communicate with only JW

Puppy: *nod nod nod*

Sakura: Because they believe that getting influence from non JW is sometimes hard for them.

Puppy: Yes. It's also a form of control

Sakura: Yes, I agree

Puppy: Are you familiar with Ray Franz?

Sakura: Yes I know

Puppy: He used to be on the Governing Board

Sakura: I talked to a Japanese brother who has his own blog. He is Japanese and JW but he wants to make it clear that we should not worship to the organization.

Puppy: Btw your English has improved a lot ;D

Sakura: Oh is it?

Puppy: Yes

Sakura: Thank you! I really agreed with him. There is something wrong with the organization

Puppy: *nod nod nod*

Sakura: They tried to control sisters and brothers

Puppy: If you don't follow the organization then they kick you out and no one speaks to you.

Sakura: But i know it is very difficult for the people who has brainwashed already. But I am standing still.

Puppy: You make me feel better now

Sakura: I pray to Jehovah to help me. I want to use his holy name and want to tell about his real purpose for the humans.

Puppy: What websites have you been to?

Sakura: But I won't be a witness until I understand or the organization changes their attitude. Oh it's a Japanese one.

Puppy: I have some friends at

Sakura: He talked his ideas

Puppy: Jwonline.org

Sakura: We just want to listen to Jehoval throughout Jesus Christ.

Puppy: Try going there to ask questions

Sakura: But organization let us think the discreet slave class and governing body is important. I don't like human organization.

Puppy: Yes and about "Babylon the Great"

Sakura: I told one of the sister yesterday everything in my heart. She also was discriminated from Caucasian sisters and brothers in the old congregation. It was very sad to hear. However, I started felt like the Jehovah is the one who is going to judge who was right and wrog. So I laid all my feeling onto Jehovah's hand.

Puppy: The Bible that you use... Is it the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures?

Sakura: Yes. I still don't understand some of their doctrine. 144000. Governing Body. Money collection.

Puppy: The Bible that JW studies is different from the other Bibles.

Sakura: Many things I wonder. Yeah it is different. Because it has a god name on the bible. I really like that point.

Puppy: No all bibles have the Name Jehovah, Adonai, etc in them. Yahweh

Sakura: But many bible deleted from their bible.

Puppy: The Watchtower version of the bible was not translated by scholars.

Sakura: There used to be 7000 times. Where did it go?

Puppy: The JW bible added God's name many times that were not in the original Greek texts.

Sakura: Bo, I want to make sure that I don't want to be in the side of JW. Oh. Let me see...

Puppy: In the bible the apostles partook holy communion. In the Watchtwoer only the special chosen among the 144000 can partake in Holy Communion. According to the Watchtower all 144000 have been born already. So no more can be made.

Had a chat with a friend that I haven't contacted in a couple years. I noticed that her Facebook posts were starting to take on a biblical tone that seemed very Watchtowerish. What follows is our conversation:

Puppy: Alo Sakura It's me Gammy. Have you been studying with the Watchtower Society?

Sakura: Yes, I am studying with JW

Puppy: For a long time now or is this new?

Sakura: For two years now. Why?

Puppy: I know many people that used to study with them.

Sakura: Oh, I am not baptized bit I respect JW people because they don't attend war.

Puppy: Many have bad experiences with "shunning"

Sakura: You mean JW people don't communicate with no JW?

Puppy: Yes, Or if a daughter is a Jehovah's Witness and her mom is not or left the Watchtower then the daughter does not talk to the mother. Many families have been broken apart by this. So I worry for you.

Sakura: Thank you for your advise. My mom is a witness. She is very nice person still even though I was not studying at all.

Puppy: Ah then I understand:) your dad as well?

Sakura: No, not my dad. But my dad is kind of opposing.

Puppy: The shunning only occurs if a person is baptized and then leaves the Society.

Sakura: I just love our Heavenly Father. I know what you mean.

Puppy: I understand:) I am Christian as well

Sakura: I am not going to get baptized until I understand the organization. I love studying the bible a lot. And they are the one to study bible so much. That is why I still with them.

Puppy: *nod nod nod*

Sakura: I u nderstand your worry a lot. JW people wants to communicate with only JW

Puppy: *nod nod nod*

Sakura: Because they believe that getting influence from non JW is sometimes hard for them.

Puppy: Yes. It's also a form of control

Sakura: Yes, I agree

Puppy: Are you familiar with Ray Franz?

Sakura: Yes I know

Puppy: He used to be on the Governing Board

Sakura: I talked to a Japanese brother who has his own blog. He is Japanese and JW but he wants to make it clear that we should not worship to the organization.

Puppy: Btw your English has improved a lot ;D

Sakura: Oh is it?

Puppy: Yes

Sakura: Thank you! I really agreed with him. There is something wrong with the organization

Puppy: *nod nod nod*

Sakura: They tried to control sisters and brothers

Puppy: If you don't follow the organization then they kick you out and no one speaks to you.

Sakura: But i know it is very difficult for the people who has brainwashed already. But I am standing still.

Puppy: You make me feel better now

Sakura: I pray to Jehovah to help me. I want to use his holy name and want to tell about his real purpose for the humans.

Puppy: What websites have you been to?

Sakura: But I won't be a witness until I understand or the organization changes their attitude. Oh it's a Japanese one.

Puppy: I have some friends at

Sakura: He talked his ideas

Puppy: Jwonline.org

Sakura: We just want to listen to Jehoval throughout Jesus Christ.

Puppy: Try going there to ask questions

Sakura: But organization let us think the discreet slave class and governing body is important. I don't like human organization.

Puppy: Yes and about "Babylon the Great"

Sakura: I told one of the sister yesterday everything in my heart. She also was discriminated from Caucasian sisters and brothers in the old congregation. It was very sad to hear. However, I started felt like the Jehovah is the one who is going to judge who was right and wrog. So I laid all my feeling onto Jehovah's hand.

Puppy: The Bible that you use... Is it the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures?

Sakura: Yes. I still don't understand some of their doctrine. 144000. Governing Body. Money collection.

Puppy: The Bible that JW studies is different from the other Bibles.

Sakura: Many things I wonder. Yeah it is different. Because it has a god name on the bible. I really like that point.

Puppy: No all bibles have the Name Jehovah, Adonai, etc in them. Yahweh

Sakura: But many bible deleted from their bible.

Puppy: The Watchtower version of the bible was not translated by scholars.

Sakura: There used to be 7000 times. Where did it go?

Puppy: The JW bible added God's name many times that were not in the original Greek texts.

Sakura: Bo, I want to make sure that I don't want to be in the side of JW. Oh. Let me see...

Puppy: In the bible the apostles partook holy communion. In the Watchtwoer only the special chosen among the 144000 can partake in Holy Communion. According to the Watchtower all 144000 have been born already. So no more can be made.

Sakura: http//wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_Bibles_have_Jehovah_as_God%27s_name

Sakura: Have you seen this?

Puppy: Let me go look

Sakura: sure, take your time. It is very nice you care about me. I appreciate it. I just want to make sure not only new world translation used god name many times.

Puppy: I read it

Sakura: I dunno because I have ever seen the Greek or Hebrew scripture with my eyes. But I prefer using god name if he has any.

Puppy: In the other bibles... They use "LORD" in all capitals when the original translation used Yahweh, Jehovah, etc because they beieve that God's name was too holy to be written or spoken.

Sakura: Yes it is holy. We should not use it if we will use it in a bad way. And when the JW decided to use this name. it was weird. I felt that name makes people afraid of JW people. and Jehovah's name is used badly now. even though his name is holy and very precious for us. I want to call his name if he has name. He is closer to me

Puppy: He has many names

Sakura: because there is many god in many religions I love the god who created this world.

Puppy: Jesus, or Yashua, or Joshua

Sakura: I don't believe in the god of shinto, or thousands of god created this world.

Puppy: *nod nod nod*

Sakura: There is only one for me. I love him and believe he is my father now.

Puppy: In the New Testament is the name Jehovah used.?

Sakura: But it is a bit different to get baptized as a JW. I want to tell about God name and want to tell that he loves all of us. It is the most important thing. So I share the scripture on facebook. we should not think with our heart and our eyes..

Puppy: Right but in the Original New Testament scripture the name Jehovah is not used. But the Watchtower put the name Jehovah in their translation.

Sakura: want to put everything on him.

Puppy: I respect some people that believe in the JW religion but there are also a lot of mistakes made.

Sakura: yes. I want to check up about his name was in the original one or not more carefully.

Puppy: They have tried to predict Armageddon many times now and they have been wrong each time.

Sakura: some people says there were. some say there werent

Puppy: What they write in Awake! and The Watchtower changes a lot

Sakura: haha. I agree. If the governing body is getting holy spirit, why they make mistakes again and again, right? I totally agree with you!

Puppy: See They won't let you get baptized until you believe in the governing body

Sakura: haha. maybe I will never get baptized.

Puppy: That may be safer for you

Sakura: I just need a relationship with Jehovah. but I appreciate JW people taught me about the bible.

Puppy: If you do get pabtized and then change your mind then you might lose your relationship with your mother. That is what I'm afraid of.

Sakura: and now I don't believe in hell and heavens any more. that is easy for me. I know what you mean. thank you! this is why I am also being very careful

Puppy: What about other Christian religions like Protestant, 7th Day Adventists, or Catholicism? ;P

Sakura: If they use cross for their worshipping I don't agree. because god said do not do idolotry

Puppy: I know the scripture you refer to. I brought that up in my Bible class when I was in High School. The cross is symbolic of Jesus. Not an idol of a false God or golden calf. People do not worship the wood. They worship God and Jesus. The cross helps them remember the great sacrifice. So I understand what you mean by worshipping idols. In the Bible Jesus is the way to jehovah.

Sakura: I felt like if your friend or anybody dies on the cross

Puppy: In the Watchtower the Governing Board is the way to Jesus is the way to God.

Sakura: do you wear it as a fassion? I can't understand. I don't need cross for worshipping God and Jesus. I don't need anything.

Puppy: It's not fashion for believers. It's a way to remember. Right you only need your love for Jehovah and Jesus.

Sakura: I still remember Jesus died for us even I don't see cross. I talk to god every day. because cross is used in the other religion. I don't like that point so much

Puppy: *nod nod nod*

Sakura: Have you learned a crusadethe crusaders? cross reminds me of war. I th ink that is why JW people don't use cross

Puppy: I know about the Crusades where men killed in the name of God.

Sakura: that sounds horrible...

Puppy: It was horrible.

Sakura: even trinity. it seems strange for me the statue which has three faces.. I can't understand the doctrine at all.

Puppy: Statue with three faces?

Sakura: have you seen this? hold on.((here she links me to an image of statue with three faces))

Puppy: LOL that's just artwork. Belief in the trinity or not does not have any bearing on a person's relationship with God or Jesus

Sakura: trinity http;//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

Puppy: I know what the trinity is. That God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all one

Sakura: But many christian people believe in this. I can't understand what is this. God is one.

Puppy: Jesus is God taking on human form

Sakura: and he created the earth. that sounds strange for me. Jesus is the son

Puppy: It's like this. Do you have any uncles or aunts in your family?

Sakura: Jehovah is the father. yes I do

Puppy: You have one father right?

Sakura: Yes

Puppy: Your father is also someone's son and someone's brother

Sakura: but Jehovah is the father of all things.

Puppy: Your father is Father/Brother/Son all at the same time.

Sakura: God created angels

Puppy: Yes Jehovah is the father of all things.

Sakura: and the first creation of god is jesus christ. so they love each other very much. it is more simple and easy to understand for me

Puppy: Do you believe Jesus to be the Arch angel Michael?

Sakura: Scriptural evidence indicates taht the name Michael applied to God's Son before he left heaven to become Jesus Christ and also after his return. Michael is the only one said to be "the archangel" meaning "chief angel". or "principal angel" I checked online library because I was not sure.

Puppy: So is Jesus and Michael the same person?

Sakura: yes

Puppy: How is that different thanthe concept of the trinity?

Sakura: hmmm we believe that the Jehovah made all t hings. Jehovah is the most high. Jesus was often called his son in the bible you know. even when Jesus got baptized, they heard the voice said this is my son from the heaven and we also believe in holy spirit. but it is the power from God. we get sunshien from sun every day right? we can't see it but we feel it is bright and warm. but sunshine is not the same with sun itself. we can get holy spirit from God. I just felt the idea of trinity is very compliocated and make me feel god is mysterious

Puppy: *nod nod nod*

Sakura: why father and son and something else is the one. of course the son will come out from the father. they look alike but son is son and father is father We appreciate Jesus died for us adn we also appreciate Jehovah send jesus to the earth to help us.

Puppy:

Sakura: but just too difficult to understand trinity. haha. nobody explained well so far.

Puppy: I understand you

Sakura: Thank you! but we ask for holy spirit to study bible. and we pray god throughout Jesus because we need all of them

Puppy: Do you miss celebrating Christmas and Brithdays?

Sakura: yeah kind of. but christmas, I didn't like it so much before. and brithday, I can send my friends a gift and card anytime. I love my friends, my family

Puppy:

Sakura: we can appreciate whenever we want. not because it is christmas or birthday. I think it is nice to have a good time with your friend or family all the time

Puppy:

Sakura: but kids assume they can get present from santa clause. that is very greedy idea.

Puppy: Lol kids are greedy

Sakura: haha. we don't need any reason to give a present. there is happiness in giving than recieving.

Puppy:

Sakura: Actually my mom called me on my birthday. She said happy birthday to me.

Puppy: That is surprising Happy Birthday Sakura

Sakura: because she said she is happy that I didn't get any diseases until I became this old. So I sasid to my mom, oh is it okay to say that? haha. she said to me. people drink and do party for them and become crazy. that is why JW people don't celebrate birthday. every day is precious for us. not only birthday

Puppy: I htought it was because celebrating birthdays is a form of worshipping

Sakura: hmm.. it also has that kind of ideas, too. There is no evidence that people celebrate their birthday in old days.

Puppy: No evidence people did not celebrate as well

Sakura: but I don't need any more birthday and I will be young!. The Bible makes no mention of a birthday celebration for Jesus. In fact, his exact birthdate is unknown. Do you know why people celebrate christmas now?

Puppy: it used to be a pagan celebration. That Christians took over

Sakura: Yes it is.

Puppy: Now it's a mix of Christianity and toy companies

Sakura: why do we have to take over pagan celebration? that sounds weird haha

Puppy: It was a way for christians to introduce christianity

Sakura: iti s more for commercial. JW people put more weight on the date Jesus died for us.

Puppy: Same for Easter

Sakura: but many churches used rabbit and eggs. why is that?

Puppy: Easter is pagan as well

Sakura: right

Puppy: Rabbit and eggs is for children

Sakura: that is why we don't do. I do't agree still that only 144000 people would have bread and wine. that is strange. but the bible said we have to remember when jesus died for us. that is why we do memorial. JW organizaition used to be bible study group.

Puppy: that nisin thing?

Sakura: yes. nisin.

Puppy: The founder of JW is Russell right?

Sakura: yes, but Russell didn't give a name. which bible do you use bo?

Puppy: Why is there a pyramid on his grave?

Sakura: I duuno. so the organization went wrong.

Puppy: I like to use Revised Standard now

Sakura: so i it unbelieveable still

Puppy: In the past I've used NIV, also the Catholic Bible... I have a Bible application with over 20 bible versions in my iPhone For research I aslo have the JW Bible app. Also used King James

Sakura: 1 cor 11;23-25... For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread. and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "this is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me"

Puppy: yes

Sakura: we do it. but we don't celebrate christmas

Puppy: only the 144000

Sakura: I don't agree to that point yet. I think we all have to do.

Puppy: That is one of the main concepts of JW

Sakura: yes, very hard to understand right? it is almost hard for me as trinity haha.

Puppy: Some Kingdom Hall members look down on people who practice communion.

Sakura: Communion? what dosea that mean?

Puppy: Body of Christ and Blood of Christ. JW call them emblems

Sakura: oh, I have never heard of the communion. I assume the bread and wine means Jesus's body and his blood.

Puppy: Bread and Wine

Sakura: it says so in the scripture. yes. I made it in Japan this year for the Memorial. we make bread without any yeast.

Puppy: *nod nod nod* Lots of JW in Japan?

Sakura: yes, all over the world. we study the same article every weekend. In Japan and in Canada haha. that is interesting but when the governing body put information about themselves., I don't like that. I always pray to jehovah that we just wnat to know about you and jesus. not about humans organization but you know, in the bible. even you do the same thing, only one will be chosen. so god knows in our heart

Puppy: I do suggest that you use a different Bible

Sakura: so he will help us. we do use different bible too. some of the trqanslation, it is so hard to understand. so it is a pretty good idea. and I talk with the brother in Japan a lot. he is trying to encourage us to think by ourselves not by the JW organization. he is a baptized brother. he was not raised up with JW.

Puppy: He is very strange:)

Sakura: but he studies bible by himself a lot. so I like his ideas

Puppy: Ah so he is Christian and now JW

Sakura: but he dosen't go to meeting. he told me he stopped going

Puppy: *nod nod nod* he is a "fader"

Sakura: He said he will come back. he will pray god that many people notice the fact. that the organization is trying to do something strange. they gather lots of money. and don't show what they are using for. that is like the government.

Puppy: Pay for court cases:)

Sakura: but I still need to study bible and i need help. but there is not any church studies bible this much other than JW

Puppy: like that brother in Japan

Sakura: why otehr christian don't study? it is a love letter from god!

Puppy: they do

Sakura: I wanna study more deeply. and talk about it a lot

Puppy: You just have to find the right church

Sakura: so we do it online right now. I can't find any church which won't join the war. I have so many firnes who is JW and now JW on my facebook. no JW is mainly Japanese. and I want to share the scripture withmy Japanese friend who even don't know about god yet.

Puppy: Half of my Facebook friensd are ex JWs

Sakura: haha. IC

Puppy: "Apostates"

Sakura: interesting. but i still will go to the meeting. I love sisters there and enjoy studying. I won't get baptized so easily haha. I want to believe in god, I hate satan!

Puppy: when a person lives most of their lives as a JW

Sakura: yes

Puppy: then all of a sudden sees the differences, or speaks against and are shunned, then they start to question god

Sakura: I know waht you mean. it is really difficult. because we don't know what is the right answer

Puppy: That's why we study

Sakura: but I just pray to god to help us understand. yes right.



that's it

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Very, very interesting, Pup.

Reminds me of the process I went through. We probably all know that statue with three faces image the WT uses to turn people against a Trinity. They have no understanding. Later today when I have time I'll post something that might help you in talking with her and anyone else who doesn't understand. Then people can think on it at least with more understanding and correct information.

Many of the things Sakura said to you could have been straight out of study sessions I had with JW's, almost exactly word for word, the spiel that goes along with "What the Bible Really Teaches", the illustrated simple book that hooks people in, in the hands of skilled JW's at the door.

It may be simple, but it is a very effective brainwashing tool if it comes at the right moment of vulnerability in a person's life. There's been a young woman in JWN who reminds me very much of Sakura, but the JWN girl had actually got baptised and so was under a lot of pressure. Even unbaptised, I was put under heavy pressure.

Thanks for sharing that, dear Pup (peace to you!). Interesting to hear where your dear friend's head... and heart... are. She mentioned being interested in the Bible. We discuss what's in the Bible quite often here. Perhaps your friend would be interested in visiting here, as well? Consider this an invitation to her from me... through you - LOLOL!

Peace and thanks, again!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

Puppy, your friend has a good heart, lets just hope and pray she doesn't get sucked into the JW religon, it will ruin her. Good on you to warn her and in such a kind way. Please cpntinue to keep in touch with her and gently show her the pitfalls before she is brainwashed.

Interesting that the attraction is NO WAR, now I know why Japan is the hot spot for the WT.

Very interesting 'study conductor' she has, eh? Sounds like he is trying to carefully help keep others out.


You were very gentle with her, Pup, and you got some good thinking points in! By all means, invite her here as well, if she would like. Oh, you know where she was saying that she did not need anything to be able to love and have a relationship with God and His Son (you know, when she was saying no need for the cross?)... she does not need the jws or their organization either ; ) That was the part that my Lord pointed out to me as I was reading that.


Peace to you, and thanks for showing us that.

tammy

Great conversation puppy....

Good point TAMMY brought up. Maybe the love and desire to have a " personal relationship" with Jah and CHRIST can be a focus. Because history shows how much the society continues to change " truth"

Maybe seeing this your friend can help be led to the real "TRUTH" with is CHRIST and then it WILL be personal without a man-made entity.

Thanks again for sharing
Love Justmom

Good work Pup, you sound like a really caring friend. I'm sure your words will stay in her mind and help her to avoid fully committing to the WTBS.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Yes. I thought you did a wonderful job with her, Pup!

That statue of the three-faced god, together with its accompanying scornful text, is a gross misrepresentation of the Father and the Son, distinct persons united in love in the Holy Spirit, the Breath of God.

It's not the only wicked misrepresentation in that book, but it is one of the worst.

The truth about many of the Church's traditons is not a simple one.
Many were strictly Christian that became "paganized" and not the reverse and many were Christianized pagan traditions.
The reality is that a lot of what we follow in everyday traditions is from pagan origins and that matters very little.
Even baptism has pagan origins in the water purification rites that were performed before the Jewish Mikveh (sp?) was adapted ( from where Baptism originated).
Silly to focus on what something WAS as opposed to HOW it brings one closer to Christ NOW.
That said, we can do without MANY silly traditions that have associated themselves with Christian traditions.

I forgot to update this. Didnt want to leave any lose ends


She has since stopped going to the meetings..

She got tired of thinking about them


SUCCESS!!!! *cuts a notch into my puppy utility belt*

*flies back off into the night*

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Good job, puppy! Have you invited her over here?

Ah! Not just a puppy from the hot place, but...

A Flying Puppy with Wings!!!!!!



I'm very very relieved to learn she hasn't proceeded with the JW's so far.

Anyone with an actively JW parent, though, will always be vulnerable to them.

VERY good "reasoning," with her, dear Pup (peace and GREAT to see you!). Hopefully, you planted enough of a seed to help her KEEP reasoning... and thinking... so as to not be (mis)led BACK. They're pretty convincing if one is unsure or subject to wanting please others (family, etc.). Keep us posted/let us know how things turn out? Thanks!

Again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

Yes, so true!

Thanks for the update....

Love Justmom