xjwsforChrist

Sadly, dear Char professed the same thing at one time, dear tec (peace to you, both!). I wonder what "spirit" SHE was "listening" to THEN? If it was a WRONG spirit... then how does she know she's listening to the RIGHT one, now? The "one" that "told" her to leave the RCC... for the WTBTS? Or to leave the WTBTS for the RCC? Or to go to JWN? Or to some here... and say:



Things that make you go "hmmmmmm...". Well, make ME...

Now, ONLY two here, in the short time we've known/associated with them... have changed their position(s)... and a number of times. Yet, both wish us to believe that they are SOLID in their thinking, faith, and beliefs.

Perhaps we should all just hold off and let them believe whatever it is they wish to believe NOW... and just see where these (two) are in, say, another year from now. I personally doubt it will be the same "place" either is now. I TRULY hope not.

Peace... and KEEP THE FAITH, dear ones!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

You are right, dear P (mornin' and peace to you!) in that the REAL issue is that a man, who didn't KNOW Christ, but at the last moment put FAITH in him was promised by Christ to be with him in "Paradise." Just so you dear ones can know, "Paradise" is NOT heaven, as dear P shared. It is the Garden of Eden... which garden IS spiritual (versus physical) and within the Holy City, New Jerusalem. When she "comes down OUT of heaven" that garden comes with "her." How do we know? Because we know what's in the MIDDLE of the garden: the Tree of Life. And we know who the Tree of Life is: Christ, the TRUE Vine, Root of Jesse, Sprout!, and Life... whose "leaves"... flesh... we MUST eat to live... and from which the nations will eat so as to be cured. John 6:51-53; 14:6; 15:1; Revelation 22:1, 2

It is not a physical place, but is a spiritual place that will once again be a PART of the physical realm... as it was when Adam was placed IN it, from OUTSIDE of it. Genesis 2:8

I digress.



I am not sure how that matters, dear Char (peace to you, as well!). I mean, truth is truth, regardless of who believes it and who doesn't. That a large number of people DON'T believe something doesn't make it false... anymore than if that same number believed something makes it true. I know you are a bright enough lady to understand that.



You forget: this is a RECORDING of what he said, dear one... and that there were no commas in the language at the time. Now, that it doesn't make sense to YOU as I have shared it here is... what? I included the LOGICAL support, as my dear Lord TOLD me to. And, as you can see... you seem to be the only one who DIDN'T get it. So using YOUR example as to majority consensus... HERE, it seems to make sense.



Yet, no one had better say similar as to the RCC... Your hypocrisy is showing again, dear, dear sister. Even so, I didn't share it because I received it from the WTBTS - I stated at the first why I shared it. That same One gave it to me. See, when I left the WTBTS I learned from HIM that I needed to let go of EVERYTHING I believed and thought I knew about God. EVERYTHING. No matter WHERE I received/learned it from. ALL things... except him. The rest... out. All of it. He said I was to "tear it down to the foundation" and then let HIM "build". He helped me understand that he MEANT... tear it all down to HIM, the Foundation Cornerstone... and let HIM teach me as to what is true and what is not. And I obeyed and did just that.

The result? MUCH of what I had learned/believed/thought I knew... in relation to the WTBTS... as well as my Lutheran/Baptist/RCC/secular knowledge... was absolutely wrong. MOST. But not ALL. A FEW things he reestablished. VERY few mind you. For instance, the eating his flesh and drinking his blood. The WTBTS does NOT teach that that should be done by all... but my Lord corrected me on that.

And so, I let HIM build my "house," dear one... which "house" I myself had formerly built on the "sand." NOW, because of HIM... it is built... "on the ROCK-MASS". On him, that rock-mass, dear one.



Well, that was kinda of very snarky, was it not... and intended to insult, both me AND the other dear folks here? But very unnecessary, luv. All you needed to do was INTELLIGENTLY rebut/dispute what I shared. Not take personal offense and certainly not start attacking folks personally. But then again, that's how you roll, dear Char. You might have started off small... with just dear Loz (peace to you, luv!)... but it was only a matter of time before your TRUE "colors" would emerge. What is truly "in" YOU. I must ask again, then, please... examine your heart, girl. Before it condemns you by the abundance of words that keep coming OUT of it.



Note, this is a very interesting comment, dear ones... as "UNdeserved kindness" and "grace"... aka MERCY... are all the same thing. Just stated differently but all mean the same thing. The first, though, actually DESCRIBES what it is: kindness from God that cannot be earned... but is granted due to GOD's love for US, not ours for him... and so is not "deserved." Ummmmm... that's what mercy is. The one who receives it does NOT deserve to receive it, but does so out of the love and kindness of the one GIVING it. A "pass." Grace. Funny, though, how stating what a word actually MEANS is so... offensive. But, again, truth sometimes is (offensive). Particularly to one who cannot receive truth.

Israel repeatedly benefitted from JAH's grace/mercy... yet, never deserving of such. To the contrary, they were DESERVING of destruction. For their hard-headedness, hard-heartedness, and stiff necks... which caused them to CONTINUALLY disobey, rebel, bitch, whine, moan, complain, transgress the Law, oppress their fellow man, deny His fast, profane His Sabbath... and ultimately reject Him... by rejecting HIS King. Same thing today.



It was a pole, stake, AND cross. To make the "cross", a tree trunk was stripped of its bark and pointed at one end (so as to make it easy to drive into the ground); hence, a stake (stauros). However, to hold up the BODY impaled on it, another pole was nailed very close to the top. So that the result was EITHER a "T" or a "cross." The thing about the cross, though, is not what some believe it to be. It was NOT an emblem to be revered; indeed, to the Jews, it as an abomination ("Cursed is anyone hanged on a stake/pole/cross"). But there is a bit of history about such "crosses" that I find MOST interesting:



Imagine, if you will, dear ones... the Appian Way... lined... FOR 120 MILES... with the corpses of 6,000 people who had been impaled... on crosses! Anyone living TODAY seeing this THEN would have surely though, "OMG! Look at all of the CHRISTIANS the ROMANS have killed!" But... none of these killed people, although impaled on crosses... and although many... were christians, per se. Why? Because this occurred almost 100 years BEFORE Christ was impaled himself. So, THEN, the cross had absolutely NO bearing on or relation to Christ. It was, in TRUTH... merely the way the ROMANS DEALT WITH THOSE THEY CONSIDERED TO BE CRIMINALS. Hence, the two men on the crosses NEXT to my Lord.

Becauce the cross WAS a symbol that the one on it WAS a criminal, then, to REVERE them... even one with an image of "Christ" ON it... is a slap in the face of the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, the Son of God, JAHESHUA, the Chosel One of JAH (MischaJah).. who was NOT a criminal!

THINK, dear ones! Look it UP! ASK! But please... don't listen to men or lean on your own understanding as to these things. Seek TRUTH!



They are the same thing. His blood, breath, seed/semen, life force, essence... as well as His Son, the glorified HOLY One of Israel... and SPIRIT of the TRUTH (John 14:6... JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah).



To tell someone today that they would be with them today... is redundant. But anyone who wishes to dispute what I shared should do so, dispute what I shared. If they CAN'T... well, I guess these are the only kinds of comments they can come up with. So be it. Just don't think folks who act like immature children should take offense when they're responded to as if.

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellama

The Holy Ejaculation, eh? That's about as insulting to the Spirit as you can get. I am really glad I'm not you.

-Sab

RE: The Cross.

One of the first things I asked Our Lord was about the cross and I hadn't even finished asking when I heard:
I took a symbol of shame, death, torture and the power of others and made it a symbol for victory over death In Me and through Me.
You need no symbol other than your Faith in my my child, but fear not for those that feel they needed it, for as Paul boost in the cross, so do they.
Galatians 6:14
But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world

Do we need the symbol? No.
But lets us realize that for those that it is a symbol, it is a symbol of God's victory over death through His Son Our Lord.

In your opinion what symbols do we need? And if the answer is 0, then why does God use symbols?

-Sab

Dear LQ,

I think Char had reference to me in this post on these statements LOL.

I responded to her already

Justmom

Yes, I know,Shelby.

At least I can admit when I've made a mistake. I was wrong. Evidence proved otherwise, and I am not inflexible and am always willing to recognise my mistakes.

I see you accuse me of being a hypocrite, not, I think, for the first time. I am not a hypocrite. I don't deliberately pretend to be one thing while actually another. I make mistakes. I admit them when I do. Thinking you were other than you are,Shelby, was a big mistake. I thought you understood Jesus to be as I understood him to be, and I could even accommodate the idea of you hearing a voice, thinking it was as I and all Christians hear his voice in prayer, in his Word, and in the people we meet every day.

How wrong I was. You denied my interpretation, disliked the term "prayer". You hear a voice as a medium does, much as a New Age spiritualist, but not as honestly. And perhaps most tellingly of all, you deny the name Jesus.

But I don't need to defend myself. There's no pretence here. Yes, I made a mistake, not for the first time and it won't be the last. I am not perfect, far from it. But when I recognise my mistakes I repent, pick myself up and carry on carrying on.

However, you made one mistake which you know to be a mistake. I did not leave theCatholic Church. I stopped attending Mass, yes, and I did so out of anger at a local situation, and anger is one of the seven deadly sins, and curiosity to see what a JW meeting could possibly be like. Curiosity is something Satan can make use of. And he did. He had a way in through my anger, though there were extenuating circumstances. Still, I did a very wrong thing by going to a KH, even though I was unaware of the reality of the thing I was curious about. I am very ashamed of it.

But I didn't leave the church. I didn't actually abandon my beliefs, those things I know to be good and true. I held fast to the Trinity for instance, and kept St Patrick's Breastplate firmly running through my mins.

"I bind unto myself today
The strong name of the Trinity,
By invocation of the same,
The Three in One and One in Three.
By whom all nature was created,
Eternal Father, Spirit Lord, praise to the God of our salvation,
Salvation is of Christ The Lord."

And also

"Christ be with me
Christ within me
Christ behind me
Christ before me
Christ beside me, Christ to win me,
Christ to comfort and restore me.
Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ in quiet, Christ in danger
Christ in hearts of all that love me,
Christ in mouth of friend and stranger."

In the sure strength of the Trinity I kept my faith alive, but not, in a JW environment, well exercised or nourished. I was in spiritual peril.

I believe that on the path you are on, there is also spiritual peril, and I am sad for those following you, and actually, also for you.

Quite right. But the Cross is so much more than a symbol. It is a fact, a harsh, stark fact. Jesus Christ was crucified. He gave his life for us willingly, and as a bishop said in a homily, spreading his arms wide in love for us on the Cross.

Char you said that you were a jw in all but baptism. You said that you left your church (the rcc). We, including Shelby, have gone on what you have said.

I'm sure I can find those posts if you would like to see what we have had to go by... your own words.


Peace,
tammy

I think some people DO need them yes, sorry if I wan't clear.

I recall the first time I took my eldest to a church, we went to see hi to the priest that married us.
Sofia's first time in a church and she was, oh...6 months or so, maybe more...
Anyways, she looks up at the cross and she smiles and laughs.
...
Sorry, even as I write this I get emotional...

Warmed my heart beyond words and this was BEFORE I found Christ....

Yes, you can look back and find where I said that and when you've got over your happy little triumph you could see where we've had this same interchange later on where I pointed out...I think on more than one occasion...that actually one CANNOT leave theChurch, one can merely stop attending.

And the great thing is, one just repents from such a damaging mistake, and God forgives us, and we press on in spite of what we've done. And God DOES forgive us each time.

Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Char .... The cross is the image made into an idol. And we are told " to flee from idolatry "

The only symbol or image we need to look at is Christ.

And he is ALIVE, he is a SPIRIT, and dwells IN US!
He wants us to always remember what he did and how he died for us YES, but not to wear in around our necks, nail it to every wall inside our homes, hold it with our beads and pray with it, ( beads? )
hang it in our cars, etc etc etc. It was only inevitable it would become an idol this way.

But if you still want to....I have no problems. It is your choice. I still love you anyways.
But Christ as a spirit is enough for me. I have enough distractions that I deal with everyday already.


Love Justmom

RE: Grace as undeserved kindness.
I was never a fan of this the first time I heard it.
It MAY define what grace may be, but it sounds so harsh and cold and impersonal.
Like what a person would have on a stray dog, maybe even less than that.

I recall Unmerited Favour and I liked it better but it still seemed, well...distant.

To me, the notion of grace is summed up so well here:

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis Grace that brought me safe thus far
and Grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me.
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

When we've been here ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun.
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we've first begun.

Yes, CHAR, I know what you LATER said. But you have said that you left the rcc, and that your understanding changed, does not change what you said to us... and what we went by.

You do continue to throw out little digs and snark though, Char... and it is uncalled for. I am not doing a happy little triumph. Just stating what has happened, so that perhaps you can stop and think before accusing others. So that you also cannot falsely accuse others.

The mistake that you say others have made, then, is based on your mistaken words. How is it fair, just, or even honest... to make an accusation against others for your mistake?

Peace,
tammy