xjwsforChrist

CRIMINY SAID

The argument has been made that the destruction of families by the WT policy of shunning is fulfillment of bible prophesy.


Do YOU imagine I came to give peace on the earth? No, indeed, I tell YOU, but rather division. For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against [her] mother, mother-in-law against [her] daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against [her] mother-in-law.” - Luke 12:51-53

My nephew has contacted me in connection with a letter I recently sent to the family and this is one of the points he made in his response. I had always understood this scripture to mean a division between those who accepted the teaching of Christ vs. those who would not. A clear divide between righteous and unrighteous. How can this scripture be reasoned between two groups who do accept Christs teachings, just in different ways.

One of the complaints we all have against the WTS is that they can't handle the different opinions of others within their ranks, while the apostle Paul made it clear that Christians should not cordon themselves off according to those differences, lest the Christ be divided. (1 Corinthians 1:10-17) How can I ever so delicately smash, destroy, and mutilate the WT shunning policy while still respecting the opinions of others?

How would you respond to my nephew?
_________________
I could'a been a bug.

TEC SAID

Hi Criminy.

Christ did not mean that his followers were to DO the shunning or the casting out. It was a warning of what was to come. Not an instruction for His followers. Because some would reject Him... as well as reject those who follow Him.

But Christians are to love, even our enemies, as Christ taught... and to forgive and to show mercy; also as He taught.

Peace to you!

tammy

PSACRAMENTO SAID

They only way to reconcile that verse with the rest of Christ's teachings about love and forgiveness is to, like Tammy said, understand that Jesus was warning of things that would happen TO His followers.
Did Christ shun ANY of those that abandoned Him? Did He shun Peter that denied Him not once but 3 times?
No.

AGUEST SAID

What dear tec stated, dear Crim (peace to you, both!). You may have to reconcile that your dear nephew doesn't... and perhaps won't (for some time, at least) get it... because of his own hypocrisy. Hypocrites rarely see themselves and how it is THEY who are doing the very thing they believe/accuse others of doing.

If you truly must respond, as him when... and whom... Christ ever shunned/disfellowshipped. Perhaps even show him the account where, after the Pharisees DID disfellowship a man for professing that Christ HAD OPENED HIS EYES... Christ actually went and found that man and invited him to follow after him. John, Chapter 9

Before doing so, you might consider going to the Father, THROUGH Christ, and asking HIM to grant your nephew ears so as to hear and get the SENSE of this account (which, because of his current state of blindness, he can't do without such permission and assistance). In this way, you are praying for YOUR enemy... which might end up in some good for HIM... rather than just leaving him to his own devices... and perhaps spiritual demise. If he TRULY wants to know the TRUTH... he will hear... and see... it in this account.

Of course, he will most probably try to take you to Paul's account about removing the "wicked" man from among them. To that, you might respond with two thoughts:

1. We are to look to, listen to, and follow Christ... not Paul. Which is something the Apostles knew and why there was a 14-year rift between Paul and them (Paul taught things they had not been taught by Christ and so they often protested him AND his teachings, for which he called some of them "superfine" apostles because he was hurt that they did not readily accept him as one of them);

But they were RIGHT, because...

2. Paul, seeing HIS error in that teaching (about removing someone), turned around and corrected that error because of its threat to the congregation in Corinth, which was seriously divided, almost to the point of complete devastation BECAUSE of that teaching. Thus, in his THIRD letter to them (which we know as "second" Corinthians, but the first letter from him to them in the Bible canon states that he had written them previously - 1 Corinthians 5:9[b] - and the second letter states that he was now coming a "third" time - [b]2 Corinthians 13:1. He sent a letter before him each time he visited a congregation to apprise them of his pending arrival). That correction is stated at 2Corinthians 2:1-10 and his letter approximately one year later to the congregation in Rome (see Romans 14:10-13).

I hope this helps, dear one, and that your dear nephew IS given ears to hear... if he truly wants them.

Again, peace to you!
_________________
Paz a todos!

Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA

JUSTMOM SAID




As already mentioned Crim What perfect example did Christ set? Who did he ever shun or judge? And then.. If we are to pray even for our enemies /forgive/show mercy/compassion/ LOVE...... then how can we honestly say our families (even your nephew) accept "Christs teachings?"

Love your sister in Christ
justmom ( who understands the whole family thing)

CRIMINY SAID

Forgive my delay in responding back to thank you guys for your input. I have really gained a lot, not only from this thread, but so many others.

For the most part I have recieved a cold shoulder from the family after I sent that letter - one sister writing back a short message in all caps, "DON'T CONTACT ME AGAIN!"

Well, alrighty then.

But this nephew has responded well. He has thrown up many of the typical arguments like the one I posted here, along with others; JW the only unified religion, no independent thinking, etc... But he has been asking questions, confiding doubts, raising very valid concerns. I have been so busy hunting down references from here and JWN and the Franz books and getting these emails written back to him that I have not had time to participate in this forum.

And he is responding! I am so excited.

I just needed to pop in here to say thanks. I really appreciate all your help and suggestions. I will likely use you guys often as a sounding board on many points yet to come.

Jason
_________________
I could'a been a bug.

TEC SAID

I'm so glad he is responding, and glad you are getting some feedback that is helping you to help him.

Peace Criminy, and to your loved ones,
tammy

AGUEST SAID



Just one of the reasons we're here, dear Crim (the greatest of love and peace to you!): iron sharpens iron!

Keep us posted, may JAH bless, and again, peace to you and your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

JUSTMOM SAID

Crim

"ditto" We are here for you if you need to vent.

Thanks for sharing
justmom