xjwsforChrist

Shelby, I very deliberately and explicitly used the words "Our Lord" when speaking of myself, and "your Lord" when referring to you. In a sense, that was a courtesy to you, because you very, very often use "my" rather than "our". It has been remarked on within this forum before, on more than one occasion. It's one of the very noticeable differences in the way we write.

And bless you! You STILL don't get where I'm going! Wonderful! If it makes you happy, again, carry on!

My use of "my Lord" has been explained beyond ad nauseum, dear Char (peace to you!). It is nothing personal AGAINST anyone but only a personal thing to ME... so that my Lord knows that I am acknowledging him AS my Lord. So that I am not speaking as to him IMPERSONALLY. That does NOT mean he isn't anyone else's Lord... or that I think that.

Indeed, was he not Mary's Lord as much as he was Elizabeth's Lord, if not more (because he was also Mary's son)? Yet, Elizabeth said... TO Mary:

"... why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" Luke 1:43

Why didn't Elizabeth say to Mary, of ALL people... "that the mother of OUR Lord should come to me?"

And when the angels asked Mary what she was crying about, why didn't she respond, "They have taken OUR Lord away..." rather than as she did:

“They have taken my Lord away” John 20:13

Was he not Lord of those "men", as well? Revelation 19:10; 22:9

David, why didn't HE call that One "our Lord"... rather than "my Lord"? Psalm 110:1

And wasn't he the Lord of ALL of the Body, INCLUDING those in Philippi? Yet, Paul wrote to those there:

"What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ [Jesus] my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things." Philippians 3:8

You surely know that I identify with several here as fellow servants of Christ. How you and some others continue to take my usage as meaning I don't think he is their Lord, either, is curious. Especially when such ones don't take it as such. I am truly sorry that YOU (still) don't get it, though. I would venture to say that when he truly BECOMES your Lord you, too, might refer to him as such. YOUR doing so, however, would not raise any concerns in ME; rather, it would raise joy.

Thank you, though, for clarifying why you stated what you did. Now, if you would be so kind as to answer the question I asked, we can get back to what you asked ME. Because I really can't respond TRUTHFULLY... unless I know what page you're on. Right now, I'm not thinking we're on the SAME page. I could be wrong, though, so I wait to hear from you.

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

CHAR SAID.... (A few months ago)

As posters here know, I've been pondering for some time on this question of hearing the voice of God.

Unsurprisingly, perhaps, most people over on JWN decry any thought of this being other than an unwell condition, or else vanity or delusion. I've come to realise it's anything but. As soon as I started to study Shelby's posts I realised...recognised!...that some of this was straight from our Lord, through Shelby, yes, but the source was clear to me. I've seen nothing to change my mind.

It is a well-accepted and established tradition in many branches of Christianity that one can listen in prayer and also receive an answer in prayer. Such an answer may come in many forms,anything from an apparent absence of response to getting a strong feeling, even just a sense of disquiet on a matter, or a flood of peace, and sometimes a clear vision
or a direct voice. All those things are well-attested.


CHAR SAYS...( currently)

Just to clarify, even though I've repeatedly told you openly on the forum that I've been talking with Christ, to use your phraseology, since young childhood, you are still urging me to try listening and talking to Him.

A little odd, don't you think?


Dear Char.....

Based on the thread you started months ago here on " hearing the voice of God"... And now admitting you say you do talk with Chirst, I am not sure why a few weeks ago there was a continued debate and attack on those that claimed to " hear a voice". You insisted that he does not communicate/ converse, back and forth except by Pray. If I remember correctly you even accused those that hear our Lords voice as being delusional themselves. ( something to that effect if not that) and it is the same thing that you did not like JWN accusing YOU of!

So I am going to conclude that you do hear his voice and therefore we can agree on this thus far.???
Am I correct??
Because you have stated many differing comments on this matter. Accusing individuals of following Shelby and the voice she follows.

Just wanted to mention these things. Do not want to offend you in any way, just want to be clear on the matter.

Love to you always
Justmom

OMG, dear, dear 'Mom... the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one... and thank you for that. Matter of fact, I think I need to go offline and take a moment, that TRUTH that you just posted has SO overwhelmed me. I thought, "SURELY, I am not making all of this up! SURELY, I recall dear Char (peace to you, as well!) once sharing HER chagrin, pain, and confusion over being treated in the VERY same way she is now treating others! What is UP with that??!!" And then for it to get where it is now, as if I am falsely accusing or picking on her... when all I asked, at the start, was why she was treating ANOTHER so!

Dear Char... I am NOT picking on you, my dear, dear sister. I have only been trying to get you to see what YOU have been doing... in light of what you PUBLICLY implied you did NOT want to have done to YOU! And I have been doing it out of my love for you, truly... because I REALLY didn't think you saw. Now, I am not so sure... but my love remains. As does my TRUE wish for peace for you.

Goodness... I really need a minute.

Peace... to you ALL!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Char... we can only go off what you are saying or have said to us, and these things are often in conflict. No one is trying to trick or trap you by asking you questions... but rather to gain clarification. But often you ignore the specific questions that are asked of you.

So you are now saying that Christ does talk to you? May I ask then what the issue was with those who said that Christ spoke to them?

Because my understanding of what you mean by talking with... was prayer... and not necessarily being talked back TO.

None of this is an accusation. Just confused, and would love clarification.



Peace,
tammy

What a wonderful, wonderful promise!!!
And so simple when Holy Spirit explains it! EVERYTHING that BREATHES... will finally praise Jah!


Praise Jah!
Justmom

I too love that!

There is also the accounting that God will demand even from animals, such as what is written in that Genesis account to Noah:

And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. (Gen 9:4,5)

(Granted, there are those who torment animals into a frenzy, and/or teach them to kill, and in so doing damage them... just as man does the same to his fellow man. So that is another matter, and often of self-defense.)


Peace,
tammy

Exactly that, Shelby. Thank you for acknowledging that you and I both talk with Our Lord.

How peculiar, then, that you seem so sensitive, some might even say, touchy, as to which personal possessive pronoun is used. The big difference between us is that I, in common with so very many others over auch a long period of time, call it prayer, which term you have in the past balked at.

Thank you for acknowledging that truth.

By the way, though, I'm not on a page, whether the same as yours or not. Other than on page whatever it is...11?....of this thread.

Well, well, well.

Quite clearly, Sir Winston Churchill was, as so often, absolutely right when he said Britain and America were two nations divided by a single language.

Thank you so much, justmom, for finding that earlier post of mine, and for your sheer diligence and dogged tenacity in ferreting it out with such focus. I am most grateful to you for finding my post confirming and verifying my comments reminding Shelby...and of course the forum as a whole, that I had already pointed out to her,  and all of you,  that conversing with Our Lord was something within the historical Christian tradition, not unique at all to Shelby and all of you.

However, although my words seemed perfectly clear to me then, as they do now, unless I have failed to understand your own words, to you they seem to provide merely an opportunity for glee. Extraordinary! You write as though you are quoting my own words against me, whereas in fact you have confirmed my point beautifully!

Justmom, I think you need to read again my third paragraph in that old post of mine. And Shelby. And Tammy. Done it? Good. This time round noting exactly what I said and what I didn't say. 

Did I say anything about hearing an actual voice in such a way that one could use it as a kind of talking dictionary, an encyclopaedia for clarifying matters of Biblical interpretation and more? No? Good. I thought not. 



Dear justmom, Thank you so much for confirming what I thought I had said. I also remember saying somewhere that a long time ago, I can tell you it will have been about 28 years ago, once it was as if I heard a voice asking me something very particular and personal, and containing within the question an implicit personal prophecy, which indeed came true. I have absolutely no intention of ever sharing that very special and life-changing and testing moment with this forum nor with anyone else at all. However, prayer always, always receives an answer even though it may not seem so.

I begin to think that we are indeed divided by language. For some of you, prayer seems to be something of a lesser quality than the voice-hearing that some of you speak of. To me, prayer can take very very many forms, including the living of a life always conscious of being in the presence of God. I'm making allowances for the understanding of the word by those whose only experience of prayer was within the strait-jacketed constraints of the Watchtower, though that doesn't include everyone here. However, I know only too well how even brief exposure to the Watchtower's culture can at least for a while subvert the true mind, and I make allowances accordingly.

One thing, though, Justmom. Unless my memory serves me totally false, (maybe you can ferret out a post to prove me wrong in your view) I don't believe anyone on JWN has ever treated me as delusional. A small few, all as far as I know now banned from that site, objected to some posts in a series of verbal spats, but it wasn't anything of account. I have always been very comfortable on JWN per se.

One more point, Shelby....and of course anyone else who cares to respond....

Given that justmom has now so very helpfully confirmed that I have consistently written of listening to and talking with Our Lord, and that you, Shelby, in your own post, appear to give full assent to that fact, please can you explain just why you repeatedly urge me to try listening to Christ and talking with him almost as if you are urging me and others to try very hard and see if we can hear?

I mean, bearing in mind that not only have I said it consistently but billions of others throughout the world and for over two thousand years have spent lives steeped in prayer. Are you able to explain?

It escapes me, just why you would do that. Seems a bit like teaching your granny to suck eggs. Or do our words just not mean the same thing even now?

I'm confused too, Tammy. Please can you tell me where I ever said that Christ wasn't speaking to you?

I do apologise if sometimes I miss answering specific questions asked of me. There's the time factor...and sheer human failing to notice, I suppose. Mea culpa.

I don't think it's anything to do with Churchill's opinion of misunderstanding language, with all due respect Char I think it's as Paul described in 1 Corinthians 2:



It is as if references to scripture become invisible, overturned reasoning is ignored, and logical questioning in response to contrary thinking continues to remain unanswered.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

That's just one way of looking at it, Loz. I think it bears out my point.

Because your hypocritical conduct, your ever-changing words, your repeated (but feeble) attempts to "explain away" what you "meant", your snarky attacks... and your hypocritical need to take shots at one harlotous religion (the WTBTS) while lying in bed with another (the RCC) utterly DENIES that you hear, dear Char (peace to you!). Because if you DID hear... at least, heard Christ, the Holy Spirit, you would NOT:

1. Have taken issue with dear Loz (peace!) for hearing on the MANY occasions that YOU did, with absolutely NO reason or provocation to do so;

2. Have taken issue with dear Tams (peace!) in the occasions you have with HER;

3. Have taken issue with ANYONE here... for ANYTHING in relation to our faith, given (a) YOUR statements as to what you did NOT to experience on, say, JWN, and (b) OUR reason for even having this forum (i.e., so that those who DID hear could share and discuss that in relative safety, WITHOUT being attacked... and PARTICULARLY by someone who claims to be in union with Christ);

4. You would not keep taking jabs at the WTBTS and attempting to expose HER "dirt" as you do and in the very snarky manner you do... while getting haughtily offended when someone RESPECTFULLY points out the "dirt" of the RCC. For instance, like this:

http://www.channel4.com/news/vatican-of ... -plot-rome

which a dear one, out of respect for YOU did NOT post... and I, out of respect for YOU, thanked that one for NOT doing so. But we let YOU take your shots at the WTBTS... who, while unclean, isn't AS unclean as your dear RCC, at least not in many regards (she is more unclean in others - but BOTH are unclean).

Because of our respect for you and YOUR sensitivities, dear Char, we are now a board that can expose the "dirt" of one or some religions, but not one PARTICULAR religion. And that one has the MOST "dirt." It's hypocrisy and I no longer feel comfortable with it.

So, since YOU have absolutely NO problems "exposing" the dirt of other religions, I think the other board members should have the SAME freedom. I have tried to keep them from posting things, again, out of respect for you and YOUR faith. But it is hypocrisy... and I have not only allowed it, but by allowing it, engaged in it with you. I cannot and will not any longer. Folks should be able to post what they wish, if it exposed the falsity of religion... and any who can't handle that will have to decide for themselves what to do about it.

As for your comments to dear 'Mom (peace, chile'!)... if you KNEW 'Mom you would know how ridiculous your accusations are. She didn't go looking for anything - I shared that with her because she didn't understand why I have the issues I do as to what YOU are doing. She did not ask for it. I asked HER for help because I was at my wits END with you... and asked MY Lord what to do... and HE said I should take the matter "to the congregation," as he directed we do when situations like this arise. I tried appealing to you. I tried asking others (dear Tammy) to appeal to you. Nothing worked. So, now, as far as I'm concerned, since we claim the same Lord and membership in the same Body... it is a "congregation" matter.

Do any of us judge or condemn you? No. We are only trying to get YOU to see what you are DOING. That you have responded here as you have lets ME know that you still don't get it... which means you still don't HEAR. Contary to what you wish others to believe.

And so THAT is why I repeatedly urge YOU, dear Char. Because whether you HEAR or not... you do not LISTEN.

As for others, YOU have NO idea what others ask me offboard, none whatsoever. That I post to the board in GENERAL means... what? Nothing more than the message is for ANYONE who might have the same/similar questions, but may not have "voiced" them on the open board.

Again, your paranoia is growing wearisome. If you are taking everything, even things that are not necessarily directed to you, personally... you MUST ask yourself WHY that is. I am not sure how you would answer yourself but if you asked Christ, most probably you would hear something like, "Well, child, if the shoe FITS...".

You really need to stop and take a look at your heart, dear Char. Really. Because what is coming out of it is most telling.

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

So you decide that I don't listen, in your view, Shelby.

True to form, as expected, but, you know something? I'll let God be the judge.

(Edit) "My ever-changing words" ? After justmom and Tammy and yourself in assenting to justmom's post, have just agreed that my words have NOT changed, to all of which I gave enthusiastic consent. Yet you still say the same old thing.

You accused ME of not paying attention to YOU, Shelby. Looks to me more like YOU not paying attention to anyone's words but your own.