xjwsforChrist

I had no idea you believed in hell like that Paul. I am sorry. I have some things to get done, but I will come back to you on this one.

Shelby has stated truth above though. The words do not mean what they have traditionally come to mean. (you will recall what Christ said about putting tradition before God ; ) )

Do you not consider it curious that 'hell' is thrown into the lake of fire? Two different things. Lake of fire already being explained as the second death.


Peace
tammy

I don't believe it is LITERAL fire and I don't think that writers believed it that way also.

Trying not to cross over onto what you've directed to dear tec, dear P (peace to you!), I would like to comment as to this:



Hell... or Sheol, Hades, the world of the dead, including the abyss/pit... is NOT a fire at all; there is no fire THERE... not even in its lowest parts, the abyss/pit. The Rich Man wanted some water to cool his tongue because... it is DRY there! Hence, full of DRY bones, as Ezekiel saw. Utterly dry because... there is no WATER... or LIFE... there.

Just because there is no water in a place, rendering it very DRY, though, doesn't mean there IS fire there. Think desert, wilderness, etc.

On the other hand, the Lake of Fire... "Geena"... IS a literal fire. Literal. It is a place/pool of great energy (heat/light/fire), SO great... that it can DESTROY... NOT just the physical body... but even the SPIRIT. Most notable, the Adversary, a former covering cherub (of the Ark)... and thus a spirit being.

Spirits don't die (hence, those imprisoned in "Tartarus", the abyss... as well as those in Sheol/Hades, the sea, and under the altar) - they MUST be destroyed. Because the SUBSTANCE of the spirit/spirits... is NOT carbon. Not mass. Not matter. It is MUCH greater than that... and so death and returning to dust does not destroy it. That is merely the PHYSICAL universe taking BACK what belongs to IT: the physical body... or VESSEL... which "houses" the spirit... or lifeforce... or ENERGY... that animates it!

The spirit, being the SUBSTANCE OF GOD... and thus, pure energy, although not a great an AMOUNT as He... must be destroyed. And it can only BE destroyed by the SAME substance: fire. Light. Heat. Energy.

Someday science will get there... but I don't think it will be science as WE know it... which, contrary to our (very) arrogant egos tell us... is quite primitive. Even now.

But as with everything else, NO ONE has to take my word for this: one... anyone... can always go TO the Light, the HOLY ONE of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah) - John 1:5, 7-9; 8:12 - the One who was sent out FROM the Source... of ALL life, light, heat, fire, energy... the MOST HOLY ONE of Israel, JAH of Armies... and ask.

Just sayin'...

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellama

Nope, I don't consider it curious that hell will be destroyed in the end.
That hell will be destroyed means that it would have had to exist (in some form).

So, I am curious to ask you where you think the spirit of those that choose to reject God go?

I think that somewhere along the lines "hell" (the grave) and "hellfire" the lake of fire, got "mixed up" as the same thing.

YES!!!! Yes, yes, yes, dear, dear P (peace to you, dear one!). YES!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

IV. HELL

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619
1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

I think HERE is where the error occurs, dear P (peace to you, dear one... and thanks for these quotes!):



There is a MAJOR error here: "Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell,"

Immediately after death, the SPIRITS (souls are bodies, but that's neither here nor there, right now), of those who die in a state of sin descend into hell... that is SHEOL/HADES... NOT the lake of fire (where such "punishments" are said to take place - they do not). In the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, what "punishment" was the Rich Man truly enduring... except "dry mouth"? I mean, he wasn't screaming in pain/torment; indeed, he was having a (very calm) conversation with "Abraham," yes? Even so, there was no inferno there; nothing burning him up.

But here's the thing: Christ said that there is to be a RESURRECTION... of the righteous... AND the unrighteous! This man would certainly fall into the category of "unrighteous," as would those the Church deem those who "die in a state of mortal sin." The PROBLEM... is that the Church apparently thinks (and so teached) that when one dies on IMMEDIATELY goes into the Lake of Fire! Which is NOT TRUE.

They FIRST go to the world of the dead (where the Rich Man was headed): Sheol/Hades... where they sleep... AWAITING resurrection... to either LIFE (and so white robes - spirit bodies- and entry into the kingdom)... or JUDGMENT (and so casting/hurling into the Lake of Fire). Revelation 20:12, 13

That "casting/hurling" INTO the Lake of Fire is called "the SECOND death"... for a REASON: because those who have died ONCE already... are AWOKEN... so as to stand JUDGMENT, and if found with no COVERING for their sins (which covering is the blood of Christ, which covers/blots out sins)... they then die AGAIN... a SECOND time... when they are cast/hurled into the Lake of Fire ("this means the SECOND death, the Lake of Fire" - Revelation 20:5, 6

Thos who take part in the FIRST resurrection (when Christ returns and gathers them, his chosen ones) are not subject to the second death - Revelation 20:5, 6

What this, what you share, above, says, is that SOMEONE decided that when the unrighteous die, they go STRAIGHT to the Lake of Fire ("Gehenna" which THEY decided was "Hell", but is not!)... literally BY-PASSING resurrection AND judgment!

That is NOT how it occurs, dear one!

Now, WHY did they "decide" and teach this? I asked, of course... and it was because such were NOT led by Christ, the Holy Spirit... and so did/do not understand the Revelation. What folks don't understand is that the Revelation is just THAT: a revealing! One cannot reveal its meanings for oneself; however. Such can only BE revealed by the ONE who GAVE it (to John). That same one reveals to whomever HE wishes. And it doesn't occur by one leaning upon their OWN understanding... but my LISTENING to the One who is WORTHY... "to open the scrolls."

I hope this helps!

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, [b]be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth.

Yes, lots of bypassing... and that quote, JM....





... that quote shows that they DO combine the outer darkness (those not invited into the kingdom upon Christ's return and the first resurrection) and the lake of fire (second death, at the second resurrection)


Peace!!

tammy