xjwsforChrist

YPPUPLLEH SAID

http://m.io9.com/5942616/dalai-lama-tel ... r-adequate
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Love is a warm rubber puppy...

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To fear me is to love me....

TEC SAID

I wouldn't mind hearing from or talking to the Dalai lama (or other spiritual leaders) without all the hype surrounding what they might say. Like on that thread, the connection being 'made' with him to Sam Harris. I think he is a diplomatic man, from other things I have read... but what do I know? That could be hype too

Peace Puppy,
tammy

TEC SAID

Oh, because otherwise... without the spin one group or another will put on his words... I would agree with him for the most part. But I could be putting my spin on his words then too, I guess.

Peace,
tammy

AGUEST SAID

I must say that although it took them/him only a little over 600 years to figure that out, dear HP (peace to you... and since he is a reincarnation and all), that beats his counterparts: it's been well over that for "christianity"... and they STILL don't get it, even though the One they claim as their leader condemned the only religion ever sanctioned by God.

No offense, truly... and I do like that he's an equal opportunity lama, though:

http://www.newser.com/story/13544/next- ... emale.html

Again, peace to you!
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Paz a todos!

Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA

AGUEST SAID



A good political leader must be, dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you!):

"The line of Dalai Lamas began as a lineage of spiritual teachers; the 5th Dalai Lama assumed political authority over Tibet. For certain periods between the 17th century and 1959, the Dalai Lamas sometimes directed the Tibetan government, which administered portions of Tibet from Lhasa. The 14th Dalai Lama remained the head of state for the Central Tibetan Administration ("Tibetan government in exile") until his retirement on March 14, 2011."

wiki/Dalai_Lama

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

SA

PSACRAMENTO SAID

Opinions...

The issue is not religion, religion is simply another name for ideology, a collection of thoughts and way to behave based one something.
The issue has been and always will be ORGANIZED region, religion being lead by a man or group of men exerting THEIR influences through religion.
THAT is the issue and it has always been the issue ( see the Pharisees of Jesus time).
Sam Harris believes the morality evolved, though he most certainly can't prove that.
He believes that over the 100's of 1000's of years, man evolved a sense of morality that He then put into "writing" as religion.
The issue with that is that too much of what we hold dear as right and good is NOT to the best benefit of the human species and may not make sense in the "survival of the fittest" MO.

The issues with evolved morality is that it is subjective and when something is subjective then it means that it is NOT applicable to all.

If there is no moral absolute ( and by evolutionary standard there can't be), then all morals are subjective.

The issue, like one person said, is not too much Christianity ( to name one relgion), but not enough.

Fact is that it is not the following of Christianity that causes issues, it is the NOT following of it.

While I hazard to say the issues is not too much religion but not enough, I think the issue is that people do NOT follow the tenets of their chosen religion, so how can we blame religion for it (typically).

PSACRAMENTO SAID


Here is THE issue:



The fact is that right and wrong are NOT about and can NOT be about simply "human and animal well-being.

AGUEST SAID

people do NOT follow the tenets of their chosen religion, so how can we blame religion for it (typically).

Blaming religion is vanity, per se, true, dear PSacto (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!). Most of us probably mean the LEADERSHIP of religion (as Christ took issue with), along with those who give such power (by their support and adherence to the teachings of, and loyalty to).

But "religion" comes out of the tenets, teachings, doctrines, traditions, customs, and practices of these leaders... and their followers. For this reason, Christ never re-established a "religion"; to the contrary, after the Samaritan woman said the following to him:

"Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

HE said to HER:

“Woman” ... “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.” John 4:20-24

They had this conversation (which was remarkable to begin with because Jews (Oholibah - the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah) and Samaritans (Oholah - the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel)... had little or no dealings with each other) because of the division, in body AND worship, between Judah and Israel. Each considered the other "separated" from God: the Samaritans as to the Jews ("Judah") due to the treatment of the Sams, brothers of the Jews, BY the Jews (starting under Rehoboam); the Jews as to the Samaritans ("Israel") because they (the Sams) didn't worship in Jerusalem at the temple (as starting under Jeroboam). The rift went all the way back, then, to Rehoboam/Jeroboam, when the 12 tribes split into the two factions, Judah and Israel (aka, "Judea" and "Samaria"). At the time of the conversation, the Jews continued worship in the temple first built by Solomon in Jerusalem; the Samaritans continued worship in the mountains, as established by Jeroboam

(1 Kings 11:29-39; 12:6-19, 25-31)

The woman was saying, then, that HER Israelite forefathers worshipped in the mountains but our Lord and HIS forefathers (remember, he was from Judah) said Israel had to worship in Jerusalem. He was letting her know, though, that the time had come where those who belong to God would not worship Him anyWHERE... but by means of a WHOM: him. The Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17)... AND the Truth (John 8:32, 36; 14:6).

The problem is that when a group of folks get together, rather than looking to him and adhering to HIS directive - that we are not be leaders, else anyone else "Teacher", be the least one vs. the greatest one, servants of one another rather than being served - most look "PAUL."

Paul, a former Pharisee and student under Gamaliel, had a bit of a problem LETTING GO of the tenets of the Pharisees he had spent most of his life becoming one OF. At the time our Lord called him, he was a YOUNG man. And so his early letters reflect the "passion" of so many young men, even today, those who believe it is THEIR responsibility to "make the world 'right'." This tendency is why many are able to garner young men to their passionate (and sometimes violent!) causes.

Paul, then, actually almost undid what our Lord had started... by trying to reestablish a religious "organization", including with rules, laws, decrees, etc. This caused a great deal of division, in certain congregations as well between him and the apostles.

Those who look to Paul for "guidance" TODAY... are only allowing themselves to once again buy into that tendency, which Christ CONDEMNED. "Religions" form when, once someone can't handle the number of people involved and/or the perceived LACK OF ORDER that results, they want to start appointing "leaders" and setting up "rules." Starting with establishing a creed and/or underlying premise/doctrine.

This, however, is... as we've been warned... a BREEDING ground for "wicked men" to "arise from among [us]." Because someone is going to reach for that leadership and rulemaking... because of the POWER, by means of the CONTROL, that comes with it. Because there are people who just cannot LET GO OF CONTROL. They SAY that trust in Christ... but their need to control... the teachings, beliefs, faith, people, gathering, calling/choosing, and everything else related to their fellow believers... shows that they don't, truly.

Christ is the leader of his people, and no one else. He, the Holy Spirit, is the ONLY "teacher" (contrary to what Paul wrote - others, myself included, are NOT teachers. We are simply instruments use BY the Teacher, and nothing more! Because what we share is not OURS, but his, given as a means to help others understand the purpose of the INVITATION to go to HIM).

"Paul" is the one primarily responsible for "christian" religions today; he, unfortunately, is their "leader", not Christ. Because it's "Paul's" laws, rules, tenets, teachings, etc., that most go by... EVEN if that conflicts with what Christ taught/said. But how can that be? It can be when folks start "looking" at, and then following Paul/religion... instead of keeping their face "toward" the "Cover"... and standing FAST... in [union with] the Truth.

I realize that decrying religion as I do will not be received by all. It will not only offend some, but turn some completely off. Maybe even "stumble" some. I would rather that, however, than be responsible for personally leading some to the pit... or not warning them that there even IS a pit in front of them. Religion is a bevvy of blind guides... leading the blind. Per Christ... BOTH fall into the pit.

Christ caused some to "stumble" by his words then... and so there's no reason to doubt that the same won't occur now.

If we can trust in HIS voice, however, then we don't need teachers, indeed, we don't need ANYONE to be teaching us... because he WILL do it. And we don't need leaders; we already have One: the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). Taking on others could constitute "spiritual adultery." And if we think we can have religion... without leaders... we are fooling ourselves.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA, who doesn't understand why anyone, who's has their "robe" washed in the blood of the Lamb, so as to become, again, a "virgin"... would want to "defile" themselves with "women" all over again. And if one thinks that "a little leaven" does NOT "ferment the entire lump"... one is fooling oneself. Or... one isn't listening to what Christ himself said about that truth. Peace!

PSACRAMENTO SAID

The issue with some Pauline Doctrines are correct for us have and while some of Paul's writings are amongst my favorites, there are issues there that MUSt be addressed.
The first is to understand that NOT all that was attributed to Paul WAS from Paul.
Second is to understand that Paul, like the other apostles, spoke from his views as much, if not more, than he spoke from The Lord's view.
Every teaching of Paul MUST and ShOULD be tested against the direct teachings of CHrist and where there is apparent contradiction, it must be analysed and seen if it is a contradiction ( and an error on Pauls part) or if it is an error of OUR interpretation.
Pauls' views on love and being in the spirit and casting off our "soulish" ways are inline with Christ's for example and very few apostles describe the nature of Christ as well as Paul.
Yet many times Paul goes beyond/behind the teachings and falls prey to his own weakness and fears and becomes too legalistic.
He was, afterall, only human and that is why it is crucial to find the uniformity of His message and to NOT allow the minor specififcs that may be in error to over shadow his preaching of the Gospel.

TEC SAID

Paul was human; as prone to being wrong, or to pride, or fears, or mistakes, or whatever, same as anyone. Same as Peter, as well.

What is funny (sad funny) is that those who do take Paul's word or teaching over Christ (or conforming Christ's teaching to fit Paul's words, instead of the other way around) is that they have to ignore Paul when he asked why people follow him, or Apollos, or Cephas... because none of them can give life. Paul rebuked people for doing it, and told them that they should only be following Christ.

Peace,
tammy

PSACRAMENTO SAID

Well said Tammy.
I think that, when people want to prove they are right, they will find a way to do it.
In the case of Paul, because we have more form him and attributed to him than any other apostle, He was a convenient choice.
Take in context and as a whole, his letters are magnificient works of theology and philosophy in which we can see the richness of one man's faith and the journey he was on.
Too bad some choose to "proof text" him out of context, just to justify what they WANT him to say that agrees with what THEY THINK is right.
Of course, some( usually the same ones) do that with ALL of the bible.

JUSTMOM SAID



Thank you tec and Thank you Aguest for sharing. My spirit bears witness with this.

Funny thing
Our brother Paul was very zealous yes I agree and passionate about his Lord but he did let himself get in the way alot.
Which yes we all do at times. But I find some of my greatest obstacles to overcome when talking to others about "Christ" and using certain versus in the bible is when it comes to what our dear brother Paul taught. They do truly follow him unfortunately!

Religion and following what is written over"The Truth" which is a whom (Christ) is the best/easiest way to lose sight in this darkness that we exist in. The adversary knows this and is a chief agent in promoting these entities to flourish. Sad but TRUE!

Holy Sprit is always "FREE" and for ANYONE thirsting, hungering for it! It is the safest/surest road. And our Lord and master holds his hand out and says, "COME!"

Love to you all
justmom

PSACRAMENTO SAID

We must realize that for many people, the majority really, following the HS is something that they are NOT willing to do because, to be honest, it is just to intimidating.
Far easier to follow a book.
And for many a time, a book was all we had.
See, think about it, the notion of following "some voice" or some "spirit", guiding us to the truth and our salvation, that notion is overwhelming for most and rightly so.
You can't just say, " I do it this way because the HS told me" but that is what those that do not accept or wan to hear the HS think it is about.
They have this notion of people doing whatever a "little voice" tells them.

AGUEST SAID

Peace to you all! Please know that I don't have an issue with Paul (although perhaps with some things he wrote/attributed to him). He wrote what he wrote based his background and what he knew at the time. I have no doubt that some of what is attributed to him was in fact written by others and/or tampered with. My point is that "christian" religion is based largely on Pauline teachings and/or in defiance of/disregard for our Lord's admonitions against having leaders/being called teachers, etc. The "go to" person or persons.

And EVERY religion has its leader(s)/teacher(s). As a result, people look to... and go to... elders, priests, pastors, deacons, bishops, and other "christian spiritual guides," etc., for all kinds of guidance, direction, advice, etc. Why, though, when Christ is that One? And it's not like such ones say, "Hey, you really shouldn't be coming to ME - you SHOULD be asking for holy spirit so as to be guided directly, by God... through Christ... by means OF that spirit. Because I can only give you what was given me - how much more valuable the information if it came directly from the Source!"

They don't... because of personal ego, the need to be in charge, need to control, etc... which, while not always wrong (needing to control, etc.)... CAN cloud out Christ's words regarding this in THEIR hearts. They forget (or ignore!) that it is God who draws, and Christ who chooses. We can "water", yes... but only WITH "water" that WE receive - WE don't make it, on our own or otherwise. And Christ said HE would not lose a single one, except [the son of Destruction/Abaddon/Apollyon].

For the Body of Christ, however, there is supposed to be only one "go to" person: Christ. Does that mean we don't share what he gives US with one another? No. It does mean, however, that that's ALL we do: share, whether others hear or refrain. Individually, though, if we have FAITH in HIS words, and God's spirit which we RECEIVE from him... then WE have no reason to go anywhere or TO anyone else.

It is curious to me that out of ALL that is contained in the Bible, the one verse that seems to "cloud" folks minds to Christ... outside of the Law (which acts as a "veil" - 2 Corinthians 3:7-18), is the one to the Hebrews about not forsaking the gathering of ourselves. This wasn't an admonition to form... or belong to... a religion... or even to have routine meetings where there are sermons and public prayer, etc. It was an admonition to not forsake the "task" of the Bride... which is to KEEP saying, "Come!"... so as to GATHER... the chosen ones:

"The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life. Revelation 22:17

That call to "Come!" isn't to yet another religion, but to the "river of Life's 'water' ("river of water of life")... which "river" flows from the throne of the Lamb, the TREE of Life, who stands on both sides of it:

"Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations." Revelation 22:1, 2

In this sense we are fellow "gatherers"... "workers in the 'field'" that is the world... inviting the "wheat" to "separate" itself, so that it is not caught up with the "chaff" during the "harvest". (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

Again, peace to you, all!

Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

AGUEST SAID



Well, some might not WANT you to say that, dear P (the greatest of love and peace to you!), but you CAN. Sure, folks are going to take issue with that. And if you care what they say/think... then, yep, it's gonna be hard. If you care MORE, though, as to what God and Christ say/think you about you... then you "feel the fear and do it anyway"... rather than shrinking back/begging off.



Yes, but these cannot give you life, so our concern about them should be minimal, if at all.


Yes, but if they HAVE such notion, we know that they don't belong to our Lord... yet. Which means, they belong to another... and it is listening to that one's voice that causes them to have this notion. But again, we shouldn't fear them... or what they say or think of us. Right? Because it is the One who can kill the body AND the spirit "in Gehenna"... than those who can just kill the body... that we should fear. Right?

"To whom much is given... much is expected." Including... despising shame. We were told we would have to "pick you AND carry" a torture tree/pole, dear ones - not a long-stemmed rose.

Again, peace to you, all!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA