xjwsforChrist

CRIMINY SAID

I have since learned not to be judgmental on these issues. I'm willing to stand at the head of the line for people with whacked out ideas and understandings. But I still have only this one brain with which to perceive, dissect, process and conclude.

That said, I took issue with one particular element of what constitutes the "good news", as he explained it in In Search of Christian Freedom. I thought his reasoning was questionable.

I'll get more into that later. How 'bout you? Do you think his book ISoCF was a slam dunk, or not so much?
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I could'a been a bug.

PSACRAMENTO SAID

I think that this book is a crucial book for ANY person that believes that one can only worship God or be a Christian IF they are part of some religious organization.
It makes it clear that the search for God is a personal one.
It makes it clear that, IF salvation is important to a person, putting THAT in the hands of others doesn't make a lot of sense.
It makes it clear that while there is only ONE way to God, His Son, there are many ways to His Son.
Is it perfect?
Nope but, to be honest, I read it a few years ago and I don't recall any part that I stopped and said "Whoa, hold on there Ray".

I had some email correspondence with Ray, he was a good man and I got the sense from his emails that he understood the burden he had to carry for what he had done all those years.

Perhaps his books were a way of make amends for all that.

AGUEST SAID

I didn't read either of dear Mr. Franz's books in full, dear Crim (peace to you!). I didn't need them, personally, because my Lord had shown me who the WTBTS was and was not. At the suggestion of a dear friend, however, I did begin to read "Crisis of Conscience", which found to be a very good relation of Mr. Franz's experiences and viewpoints. Within the first couple/few chapters, however, Mr. Franz made a statement that caused me to have to put the book down - I had no choice because the statement was not true, by any stretch, and so I knew it hadn't come from my Lord. Given that, I felt no further reason to read... because I didn't have the concern that some have... or need to understand why... that the WTBTS is NOT the "truth" or anything other than a harlot and den of imposters and "false christs" (I received that from my Lord himself). I well knew that before I had ever heard of Mr. Franz or his book(s), though, and so while his experiences and understanding of what went/goes on "inside" her may be interesting, I don't need to know them to know just how "disgusting" that harlot truly is.

If it helps others to see "her" as she truly is, though, I say more power to them. I would also say, though, that there is one who can show them just how disgusting she is... as well as a great many others things that one can get from no other Source, including a WTBTS "insider."

But please understand: I mean absolutely NO disrespect at all to Mr. Franz. MANY have related what a kind, generous, and loving man he was and I have absolutely NO reason to doubt or dispute that. That fact that he stood up and told the TRUTH... even at risk of his own well-being, is enough for me to respect him. He was a WTBTS insider who knew what things were about and was able to share that with the world, and thus, also aery accomplished author. His works have their value, absolutely, and I don't disagree with that. Just sharing MY truth regarding this matter and your question, though, and that's it, that's all.

Again, peace to you!
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Paz a todos!

Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA

STRYMECKIRULES

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject:
i noticed from the CoC book that Ray still saw the world thru JDUB tinted glasses. because he was born in and never truly a man without faith in god, he had a limited worldly viewpoint.
his limited worldly viewpoint made him vulnerable to how evil can be.
without knowing how evil operates, you have a hard time knowing when you are being manipulated by it.
but i enjoyed the book and wish it was better known.
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i move at a much higher rpm than most people.

GLADIATOR SAID

Ray Franz Crisis of conscience, is a very informative and well researched book. Telling his story has been an inspiration for many others who have doubted the Watchtower Societies honesty and integrity.

The only disappointment for me was that, as I understand it, Ray Franz did not leave the religion when he discovered the extent of cover-ups and dishonesty at the heart of the organization. Instead he left the headquarters and tried to live quietly away from Bethel and attend a normal congregation.

He did not realize that his act of leaving, having being a member of the Governing Body, amounted to apostasy in their eyes. His actions showed that he no longer believed in the Society. He was pursued and disassociated for having a working lunch with the owner of his mobile home who was also his employer and an ex JW. Once he was cast out he reacted by writing his book as an act of revenge.

He did not jump but was pushed. Had he been left alone, he may well have spent his remaining days happily serving in a Kingdom hall near you. That said, he was dear man who showed his mettle and did the right thing in the end. Perhaps leaving completely was too big a step all at once. He may have quietly left the religion entirely, in his own time, had the Bethel bully boys left him alone.

This is my understanding having read his book. If I have got my facts wrong then please jump in and correct me.

CRIMINY SAID

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:54 am Post subject:
I think his books have helped a lot of people and will continue to do so. You're right, Gladiator, about the observation that he might have lived out his life in a congregation somewhere had he not been pushed out on a technicality. According to his book, he was willing to let it go even after his disfellowshipment had it not been for the WTS coming out weeks later with an article stating:

From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those who, like the original Satan, have adopted a faultfinding attitude. They do not want to serve "shoulder to shoulder" with the worldwide brotherhood. Rather, they present a "stubborn shoulder" to Jehovah's words. Reviling the pattern of the "pure language" that Jehovah has so graciously taught his people over the past century, these haughty ones try to draw the sheep away from the one international flock that Jesus gathered in the earth. They try so sow doubts and to separate unsuspecting ones from the bounteous table of spiritual food spread at the Kingdom Halls of Jehovah's Witnesses, where truly there is "nothing lacking." They say that it is sufficient to read the bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago, and some have even returned to celebrating Christendoms festivals again, such as the Roman Saturnalia of December 25! Jesus and his apostles warned against such lawless ones.

This is what lit a fire under Ray's butt because is was so loaded with crap (and name-calling), it completely misrepresented what happened at Bethel. He admits it took some time for him to reach the conclusion that he needed to write CoC.
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I could'a been a bug.

PSACRAMENTO SAID

The hypocrisy of a religion created by a man that advocated private readings of the bible as the only way to come to the truth, advocating AGAINST private readings of the bible, is quite astounding !

PSACRAMENTO SAID

And Saturnalia was December 17th and when it was expanded, ended on the 23rd.

TEC SAID

LOL... that would have lit a fire under my butt too!

I have never read the book. I'm glad it is out there because so many people find support and help through it. I just did not ever feel the need to read his explanations on the religion. And I never read books that others write about God.

Peace,
tammy

SOFT/GENTLE SAID


overall I have a lot of respect for Ray, he did his best while he was at headquarters but I feel he became a much stronger person after he left.