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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:05 pm 
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is there more than one spirit?


I would like to take your questions in their opposite order, if I may dear LQ (peace to you, dear one!). First, there ARE two definitions of the term "holy spirit", dear LQ (peace to you, dear one):

1. One is the (holy) spirit of God, that is His breath, blood, and seed. Since God is holy, then His SPIRIT (life force/essence) MUST be holy, yes?

2. The other is the Holy (SPIRIT) of God... His Son and Christ, the HOLY ONE (see, he's even CALLED "holy") of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chose One of JAH (MischaJah).

It is like the English word "read"... which can mean "to read" as WELL as "I have read". It can mean that I "DO read"... as in literal pages... as well as, say, "I read in her eyes", meaning I PERCEIVED something.

MANY words and phrases have more than one meaning and getting caught up in ONE meaning for "holy spirit," is an error. It means spirit that is holy... and A spirit (being) that is holy.

How can Christ be the Spirit if he's sending the Spirit?

The problem is the word "send". If we look at the GREEK word, though, pempō... we might be able to see a little more clearly where the error occurred. That word, pempō, transliterates to:

1) to send... which is good...

which has an underlying meaning of:

a) to bid a thing to be carried to one... which is good, too...

But, oh, wait... look at THIS meaning:

b) to send (thrust or insert) a thing into another.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 3992&t=KJV

Wait a minute: did Christ mean, when he said that he would SEND his spirit... that he would "thrust/insert" it into... another/others??? He did, dear one: that's EXACTLY what he meant. Unfortunately, those who did NOT possess that spirit... and do not today... can't move their eyes past that first literation, "to send." Why? Only one reason, dear one: blindness. Won't ALLOW them to see the truth. Because it won't allow the glorious GOOD news... that IS Christ... the LIGHT... SHINE THROUGH.

So, they are stuck seeing only that first literation, "to send"... and not the TRUTH about what the word, pempō... TRULY means in THIS instance.

I hope this helps, dear one, and again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Shelby:

In reading your last few posts on this thread it would seem then that just as important as knowing what the Greek actually does say, it is just as important in knowing what the Greek does NOT say!

I love it!!!

--Armand


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:46 am 
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The one thing I don't do is argue about "translations" or what was "mistranslated" or "misinterpreted". why?
Because what we end up doing is saying this:
I am right because in my opinion it is this way and since I am right about it being this way, I am right.
Circular logic.
For every person that has one view of textual interpretation, there is another with the same, with a different or with whatever.

The last, very last "issue" to be resolved before the Trinity doctrines was formulated in the 4th century ( AFTER the manuscripts we have record of) was that of the HS.
The divinity and deity of Christ was resolved quite early, Christ being viewed as God ( by nature) by the end of the 1st century, but the HS was a bit tricky simply because the HS was viewed as the HS of God BUT it was quite clear that the HS was also given by Christ and, according to passages from which the HS doctrine started ( not passages that were later changed to "confirm" the doctrine), the HS did things that were sole perview of God AND Christ ( Salvation, redemption, etc).
That the HS was of the same nature as God was a given, BUT how did it relate to Christ and what to do about the passages that stated explicitly that the HS was a "person" ( person in the Hellenistic interpretation not OUR understanding).

Then there was the issues of where the HS comes from: did it come only from God or also from the son? was it always there or not?

These were issues that opponents of the church had and also issues that were going on internally in the church.

some examples:

Quote:
He speaks to man: Isa.6:8-9 "Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I! Send me." And He said, "Go, and tell this people: 'Keep on hearing, but do not understand; keep on seeing, but do not perceive.' Paul in the NT. applies this scripture giving the credit to the Holy Spirit for saying it. The Isa.59:21 the Spirit gave the men the words.

Mark 13.11: Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1.16: and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus

In Acts 5 Peter confronted Annanias and Sapphira said you have lied to the Holy Spirit vs.3 he then says you have not lied to man but to God v.4 in reference to his first rebuke. Since Jesus said God is Spirit in Jn.4 this should settle any conflict. The Holy Spirit's work is evident from creation onward, there is no reason not to come the conclusion that the Spirit is God. He makes Jesus known just as Jesus made the Father known.

Acts 8.29: The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it."

Acts 10:19: "While Peter thought about the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Behold, three men are seeking you."

Acts 11:12: "Then the Spirit told me to go with them, doubting nothing. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered the man's house."

Acts 13.2: "While they were worshipping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."

Acts 28:25-27: "The Holy Spirit spoke spoke rightly through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers, "saying, 'Go to this people and say: "Hearing you will hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you will see, and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should heal them."

I Tim 4.1: "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits

Heb.3.7: "So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice."

Rev 14:13: "Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "amen," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

Rev. 22.17: "The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" Both have intelligence.


These were issues that the church had to address and their answer was that the HS was a person, in perfect union with Father and Son.
The Union made is such that the HS WAS the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ and also a distinct "person" that acted for them, by them, through them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:47 am 
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Armand wrote:
Shelby:

In reading your last few posts on this thread it would seem then that just as important as knowing what the Greek actually does say, it is just as important in knowing what the Greek does NOT say!

I love it!!!

--Armand


Which leads us into the territory of expertise in Koine Greek and ancient hebrew.
Good luck with that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:32 am 
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Because what we end up doing is saying this:
I am right because in my opinion it is this way and since I am right about it being this way, I am right.


Ahh, dear, dear P (mornin' and peace to you!)... I fear that you have ENTIRELY misses the point, in spite of all of our time together. What of holy spirit, dear one... and Christ who speaks to those who belong to him by means of it? I understand that SOME might fear sharing what he gives them to share... but surely you realize not ALL do. How did John know what the "meaning" of the things HE was given in the Revelation were? Do you think it was his opinion? Or do you think he was, perhaps, speaking truth... when he wrote that he received what HE did... directly from Christ... and then through my Lord's servant, Michael?

Quote:
Which leads us into the territory of expertise in Koine Greek and ancient hebrew.
Good luck with that.


Both of which our dear Lord spoke... yes? So, surely, HE would know. Yes?

You help me understand more and more, dear one, why our dear Lord asked whether he WOULD find faith in the earth when he returned. There is a quite a lot of PROFESSIONS of faith... but ACTUAL faith... hmmmmmmm...

I don't know what I share, dear one. I don't know Greek... or Aramaic/ancient Hebrew... or chemistry... or physics. Or anything. I only KNOW... what I hear... and Who I hear it from. That's it, that's all. I can only share the TRUTH about that with you and the other dear ones here. I understand how some might be wont to believe/accept/receive that... but THAT is between him and them. Because NO ONE has to take my word for these things. As with anyone, ALL can simply go to him and ask... for themselves. I would wager, though, were I a wagering woman... that they would receive the same thing(s) I have... or at least a confirmation that I am not lying/fabricating/speculating/guessing/opining, etc.

Faith, my dear brother... that the One who speaks to those of his Body (from the spirit realm to THEIR spirits)... knows Koine Greek and ancient Hebrew... as well as every other language ever used by man. From the throwing down of the Seed... until now. Including every one on THIS list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pr ... _languages

Again, peace to you, dear brother... and more faith, where you (might) need it!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:21 pm 
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Ahh, dear, dear P (mornin' and peace to you!)... I fear that you have ENTIRELY misses the point, in spite of all of our time together. What of holy spirit, dear one... and Christ who speaks to those who belong to him by means of it? I understand that SOME might fear sharing what he gives them to share... but surely you realize not ALL do. How did John know what the "meaning" of the things HE was given in the Revelation were? Do you think it was his opinion? Or do you think he was, perhaps, speaking truth... when he wrote that he received what HE did... directly from Christ... and then through my Lord's servant, Michael
?

I don't think I made my point clear and that was that in matters of biblical interpretation one can't simply state, "That is incorrect because Christ told me so" and expect that comment to carry any weight. Even more so if someone else says the same thing but with an opposite opinion.

IN the end each individual MUST listen to the HS to decide for themselves "what is truth", that is a given BUT is up to the person RECEIVING the Gospel.

EX:
To say that a passage that go against what you are preaching is wrong and was changed by scribes with NO PROOF other than "Our Lord told me" is fine, it just holds no weight.
Of course the person listen must decide for themselves and they may yet with open mind and heart listen and hear the same thing, but what is they don't?
What if they hear differently?
Then what we have is a "he said/she said" tug of war.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Then what we have is a "he said/she said" tug of war.


Paul, isn't that what we have right now, between men, and between various denominations? People arguing over what they have decided that this or that passage means, or how it should be interpreted?

Quote:
That is incorrect because Christ told me so" and expect that comment to carry any weight. Even more so if someone else says the same thing but with an opposite opinion.


I don't think that this happens very often. Each time, at least among us that I can recall so far, Christ has revealed something, or the meaning of something... He also provides the backing for it.

So it is not a matter of saying, this is true because Christ told me. But more a matter of not taking credit for oneself, something Christ has taught and given. But rather giving power and glory to Him. Then showing the backing, scriptural or otherwise, for what He has shared or given or revealed. That others might see and hear, and go to Him, themselves.


If someone else says that they hear differently, then so be it. The matter can be discussed further, and perhaps one or the other misunderstood or allowed 'baggage' to 'color' their hearing. (something that I have found is one of the biggest obstacles, the baggage we carry from what man has taught us, and mis-taught us) But there are tests that can be done to help with what one has heard. Testing the inspired expression against the Spirit of Christ, against love, against scripture and what is written. In the end, if there is a disagreement, then it might simply be time to agree to disagree. Those hearing or watching must decide for themselves, preferably by asking for the truth of the matter, FROM the Truth.

But listening to man arguing with man, about their OWN interpretation or spin on doctrine/scripture... seems like time wasted, especially since how can they know if their interpretation is correct unless and UNTIL, they hear so from the Spirit of Truth (the Spirit of Christ)?

But as you say, it IS up to the individual person what they do with what has been shared, or even with what has been given to them TO share or help them to understand. We are not the ones who can convince others to believe. We can point and witness to Christ, we can share what we are given to share... we can love and live as our Lord teaches us... but the enabling and the choosing is not in our hands.


Peace to you!

tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:08 pm 
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We can point and witness to Christ, we can share what we are given to share... we can love and live as our Lord teaches us... but the enabling and the choosing is not in our hands.


Amen... and amen, dear tec (peace to you, dear sister!).

Peace to you ALL!

A slave of Christ,

Shellama


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:19 am 
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Well said Tammy and this is why it is crucial to understand what we say and HOW we say it.

I can most honestly say that when giving an alternative view to a passage, a viewed based on an understanding given by Christ, that viewed should be based on How Christ lead us to that, not just simply "He told me so".
Whenever I have had a "revelation" of sorts I have always "sourced" as much as I could to "lend weight" to it, NOT because I needed the extra weight but because others DO.
My understanding of the bible being in need of redemption is based on Our Lords' words to me that Man is a fallible creature and that even with the best of intentions, mistakes and errors happen and that, like all of creation, the bible (which is not greater than Creation) is also in need of redemption.
Only The WORD if perfect and error free.
But what Our Lord also did was lead me to the writings of others that agree with that opinion also, so that it wasn't just "my understanding" based on what Christ said, BUT an understanding that makes sense in light of evidence and that Others have concluded as such.
Now, that doesn't validiate Christ's words, but what it does is ADD to the weight of HUMAN evidence, something that most people feel more comfortable with than "supernatural sources of revelation", know what I mean?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:32 pm 
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But what Our Lord also did was lead me to the writings of others that agree with that opinion also, so that it wasn't just "my understanding" based on what Christ said, BUT an understanding that makes sense in light of evidence and that Others have concluded as such.


But WHY did he lead you to such, dear P (mornin' and peace to you!)? For OTHERS (so that you can show support for what YOU say our dear Lord told you), perhaps... because, as you state:

Quote:
Now, that doesn't validiate Christ's words, but what it does is ADD to the weight of HUMAN evidence, something that most people feel more comfortable with than "supernatural sources of revelation",


Or... for YOU (the one hearing)? If for YOU (the one hearing)... why?? Why do "you" need ANYTHING other than HIS voice? Does not your faith and anointing tell you that what he said IS true... so that so YOU don't NEED the support? That is what John, as Apostles, said was the case, yes?

"I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, [b]the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit[/b]—just as it has taught you, remain in him." 1 John 2:26, 27

Quote:
know what I mean?


I think I do. Do you know what I mean? (Wink)

Think about it, dear one. When it is TRUE, saying that something is "so" because "Christ told me" is a valid and legitimate thing. If it IS true... and he DID tell you. To say something DIFFERENT... and to need others to corroborate it... is a lack of faith ("Well, I THINK Christ told me, but I'm not REALLY sure (it was him versus me versus some other "spirit")..."). Either he told you... and so saying so is TRUE... or he didn't (and so saying so COULD be blasphemy).

That OTHERS lack faith... such THEY need the additional corroboration... is not the fault... or problem... of the one who POSSESSES faith. One MAKES it their problem when they "worry" about what others THINK about them for ADMITTING such truth. Or when they're not sure that it WAS Christ who spoke to them... or that ANYONE spoke to them. In both instances, one should probably remain quiet as to what they "heard." Because both are a lack of faith... due to FEAR... and there is no fear in perfect love. So their love... for CHRIST... has not been PERFECTED, yet.

When one's love HAS been, one CANNOT deny what he tells them. Because they share it out of love FOR HIM. I can I say I love "you"... if I'm not even willing to do what you ask me to? If he SAYS "feed my sheep" or "share this with...", how can I say I LOVE him... if I refuse to do so... or only partly do so... or do so with some explanatory caveat ("Well, I'm supposed to tell/share this with you... but I don't want you to be mad at me/not like me... so I'm gonna only say the parts I think you can receive. Or say it in MY way, not his, 'cause I don't think you can take his way")??

It is interesting to me that we, mankind, can display all manner of courage... even take on an opponent if it means saving our PHYSICAL lives... but will shirk, shrink back, even beg off to SAVE that physical life, or less (our "reputation")... to the detriment of our SPIRITUAL lives. But which has the greatest VALUE?

If God is FOR you... who can be AGAINST you? True, some will take issue with someone saying "Christ told me." They took issue with our Lord for saying the Father told HIM, yes? But he did not refrain from telling them the truth just because THEY could not receive it. Indeed, he SAID that the world could NOT receive the spirit of truth, holy spirit, yes? But he didn't change what he said to ANYONE. Or how he said it. On a view occasions his words were "tender." For example, to the Phonecian woman with the sick daughter. BUT... he only changed his words AFTER she showed her faith! He FIRST denied her what she asked for, calling HER a "little dog" (in comparison to the children, Israel). He said that because she was "unclean" - a person of the nations (hence, dogs) - versus "clean" (an child of Israel, cleansed by means of the sprinkling with blood by Moses).

Christ didn't temper his words to accommodate those he spoke to. Not even with his disciples. He simply spoke the truth... plainly... and simply. Which truth very often went right over the heads of those he was speaking to. And MORE often irritated, embittered, angered, and even enraged those he was speaking to. I mean, they wanted to KILL him... literally... yes? Because of his words, what he SAID to them?

He has not changed, though, dear one. Just like the Father, our Lord is the same: yesterday, today, and tomorrow. So, his words TODAY are not going to be any "nicer" than they were when he was with us in the flesh. Or when JAH spoke to Israel though the Prophets... or through Moses. They don't TICKLE ears, dear brother. They simply state the truth. Plainly. Simply.

When one gets into the "analyzing" what they are told by Christ, however, so as to maybe "change" the words to be more "appealing" to others... well, two things, even three, occur:

1. One is no longer speaking the TRUTH... as they RECEIVED it from the Truth.
2. And so one is showing a lack of FAITH.
3. Which can lead to the pit for both that one speaking... AND anyone listening to THEM. Because they can't save themselves OR the one(s) being spoken TO. Much less can their OWN words.

However, Christ is recorded to have said THIS... about his spirit, holy spirit, the spirit of TRUTH:

"Because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the helper can not come to you; but if I depart, I will send it to you. And when it has come, it will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in ME; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you no longer SEE me; of judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when it, the Spirit of truth, has come, it will guide you into all truth; for it will not speak of its own authority, but whatever it hears it will speak; and it will tell you things to come. It will glorify ME, for it will take of what is mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are mine. Therefore I said that it will take of mine and declare it to you."

By "it", our Lord meant the "helper" that is HIS BLOOD... which he poured OUT for... and then INTO... those who belong to him. IT is what "speaks" - the blood... but in a MUCH better way that Abel's blood spoke.

BUT... I can only share these truths with folks, dear one. I can't make anyone receive them. Because that is not within my power. As our dear Lord is recorded to have said to his disciples:

"No man can come to me [u][b]unless the Father
, who sent me, draws him... Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me." John 6:44, 45

and...

"You did not choose ME; I chose YOU and I appointed you to go on bearing fruit..." John 15:16

Hence, it is not up to the one listening as to whether they will GET what is being said to/shared with them:

"It has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a] heal them.’

But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it."
Matthew 13:11-17

Those early folks heard and saw... because the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, OPENED their ears and eyes. But once his SON inherited the kingdom, from that point on That One poured out the spirit of God given HIM... JAH'S blood... upon those who belonged to him.

And it is through that blood... His (holy) SPIRIT (lifeforce)... which spirit (blood/lifeforce) He placed in His Son, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah), thus SEALING that One AS His Son (Hebrews 1:5; Psalm 2:7; Matthew 3:17; Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22; John 1:32-33... and that His Son places in US... that He speaks. Through His WORD.

And so John the Baptizer said... to the people of Israel... as to that Word (John 1:1, 14):

"He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. And what he has seen and heard, that he testifies; and no one receives His testimony. He who has received his testimony has certified that God is true. For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure." [b]


BUT... I can only share what I'm given... and say from whom, dear one. To say different COULD be blasphemy... against the spirit of God, holy spirit, as well as the Holy Spirit, Christ. And I can't do that.

I hope this helps you, dear brother, and ALL who are wishing!

Peace to you all!

Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with, and a slave of Christ,

Shellama


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:01 pm 
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A few things though Shel:

Christ used the scriptures, as we must when the issue is scripture but even though He warned against the lying pen of the scribes, as Jeremiah did, I don't recall Him saying that scripture was wrong or intentionally written incorrectly, what He did do is show how it all pointed to Him.

Second, Christ and the prophets demonstrated that they had authority and, as of right now, I don't recall any of us being able to do just that.

Every prophet proved they were the "voice" of God via deeds and even miracles ( with the exception of John the Baptist I think).

We can NOT state that we have the same authority as they had, unless we can present the same kind of evidence they did.

Yes, I have no doubts that Christ knows what it takes to "get through to me" and that He uses the words of man to help since He knows that I like "external validation" when I debate theology BUT, that said, there are times when I stick to my guns regardless of the fact that there is no evidence on my side.
In those case I am honest when I say that it is MY OPINION based on my understanding of how it is revealed to me.
In those cases I expect others to view it as I would if it came from them the same way: Anecdotal "evidence".


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:37 pm 
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Quote:
A few things though Shel:


Of course, my dear brother (peace to you!):

Quote:
Christ used the scriptures, as we must when the issue is scripture but even though He warned against the lying pen of the scribes, as Jeremiah did, I don't recall Him saying that scripture was wrong or intentionally written incorrectly, what He did do is show how it all pointed to Him.


But WHY did he use them, dear one? For WHOM? To "prove" something to HIMSELF? Or to prove it to others, particularly those who LACKED faith?

Quote:
Second, Christ and the prophets demonstrated that they had authority and, as of right now, I don't recall any of us being able to do just that.


(Smile) And WHY did they so "demonstrate," dear one? For those who HAD faith... or those who didn't? For example, aren't the gifts of the spirit a sign for UNBELIEVERS? Did not our dear Lord commend Peter for believing he was the Son of God, NOT because flesh and blood (i.e., men, their writings, etc.) had revealed it to Peter... but because the FATHER had revealed it to him? How? Peter wasn't there when JAH's spirit came down upon our Lord, but was called by our Lord AFTER that event, yes? And so if he heard (that God had said Christ was his Son) from others, flesh and blood DID reveal it to him. Which means our Lord was in error on that matter. Right? Was he?

Quote:
Every prophet proved they were the "voice" of God via deeds and even miracles (with the exception of John the Baptist I think).


I don't think that's accurate, dear one. I can't recall any miracle performed by Samuel, Nathan, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Hosea, Jonah (in fact, HIS prophecy did NOT come to pass!)... and many, many more. Indeed, a LOT of what these spoke AS the "voice" of God didn't even prove true until many, many years later. Which is why they weren't listened to at the TIME. Because the fulfillment was immediate. Only AFTERWARD... and usually when it was too late... did Israel go, "Ohhhhhhhh... NOW we see what you were trying to tell/warn us about, JaHVeH! Please... save us NOW!" Why didn't the people listen to BEGIN with? Lack... of faith.

Much later, we have an account of things done by, say, Peter and John, and Paul... but what of the other 10? How about James and Jude? And how long AFTER such things were done were accounts about them written? So, if one was not present when such things occurred... how could they BELIEVE it, having not seen or heard it directly?

What you are suggesting, dear one, is that no one had faith... until an account was written/fulfilled. Are you SURE that was the case?

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We can NOT state that we have the same authority as they had, unless we can present the same kind of evidence they did.


I don't think that that's accurate, either. Because doesn't holy spirit (or, if you must, The Holy Spirit)... bear WITNESS to the truth of a matter? And are there more than one (kind) of holy spirit/Holy Spirit? Or, as Christ said, doesn't the SAME spirit grant the SAME authority... to whomever it WISHES? Yet, not all possess the SAME gifts, do they? So, what if one's gift is wisdom... or knowledge... versus performing powerful works or healing? What if the gift is prophesying? How can one know until the prophecy has come true? What about hearing spirits? That is a gift of God's holy spirit? If one is saying what they HEAR... is THAT not proof of the gift??

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Yes, I have no doubts that Christ knows what it takes to "get through to me" and that He uses the words of man to help since He knows that I like "external validation" when I debate theology BUT, that said, there are times when I stick to my guns regardless of the fact that there is no evidence on my side.


Dear P... you are suggesting that Christ chooses... and uses... YOUR terms for communicating with you... rather than (kindly) asking that you come to him on HIS terms. The latter is the truth, dear one, not the former... and possibly one of the primary reasons (after lack of faith), that some DON'T here: they want the communication to come as THEY wish it to... rather than JAH/Christ DO it ("I will NOT believe, UNLESS...!"). If you recall, though, dear Thomas was told that he was pretty much the last one who could make such a demand.

Perhaps, then, lack of faith is not the only issue; lack of humility might be responsible, as well. I mean, I can't imagine saying to, say, Mr. Obama, "Hey, look, Barry - you wanna talk to me? Well, I only use email, so that's how you're gonna have to do it." No, I think if Mr. Obama wanted to reach me, it would be according to his methods. Now, can I REFUSE his attempts? Say, NOT go and pick up that "certified" letter? Sure? Could I NOT open the door to the Secret Service? Maybe (I mean, if they were there to ARREST me, maybe not. But if they had come with some GOOD news for me, well, I don't think they'd kick in my door to deliver it! I think they would just leave their card with a "Please contact us" kind of message. I could be wrong, of course - Maybe they WOULD kick in my door, regardless - LOLOL!)

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In those case I am honest when I say that it is MY OPINION based on my understanding of how it is revealed to me.


Because that is the TRUTH, dear one: it IS your opinion, which you KNOW! And so you are being honest! But if you KNEW... FOR A FACT AND CERTAINTY... that it was NOT your opinion... that you didn't even KNOW the thing... but KNEW that it WAS from Christ... then nothing... and no one... could STOP you from saying THAT truth! To say it was you... under ANY circumstances, even as to opinion... when it was/is NOT, but IS Christ... would be a LIE. And a lie... against the Holy Spirit that IS Christ. I promise you, you wouldn't be able to do it. And if you did, it would only be once or twice. Because from that point on that Spirit would be removed... and you COULD only share your own opinion from that point. And your light would grow darker... and darker... until you had NO faith in him, at ALL, but was seeking only your OWN glory and power.

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In those cases I expect others to view it as I would if it came from them the same way: Anecdotal "evidence".


I totally understand and under such circumstances that is exactly what they SHOULD do. IF, however, you said to me that it came from Christ... if the spirit in me bore complete witness to the TRUTH of it, I would not question it. Not at all. If that spirit did not bear FULL witness, but some doubt arose... I would simply ask. If, for some reason, I still doubted, I would test it against what I know about my Lord. If, for some reason, I STILL doubted, I would test it against love. If, for some reason... I STILL doubted... I would look to what is written, but not just the words I see with my eyes. I would look at the context, the language, the times and customs, etc. And if I STILL doubted... I would discard it... and then ask my Lord to give me HIS truth on the matter.

For me, I usually don't have to go past what my Lord says... or, because of his spirit IN me... what that spirit bears witness to.

I realize that not all are "where" I am in this journey, dear P. But I asked about that long, long ago, and rather than being told that I should go BACK to where others are, I am to try and bring them UP... and closer to the Light... by telling them ABOUT him. Then, I am to continue following HIM, wherever HE goes. If HE goes back, then I go back with him. But only if he does. Otherwise, I keep moving forward... behind him.

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:38 pm 
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Hello everyone...

I was directed this morning to read about " salt " in the bible and how it can relate to " US" as Christs disciples and a little about the scientific property and value.

I kept hearing His words saying, " You are the salt of the earth"...then I didn't remember the rest of the verse and so looked it up ), which says, "but if the salt loses its strength, how will its saltiness be restored? it is no longer usable for anything but to be thrown outside to be trampled on by men."
Matthew 5:13
Luke 14:34
says similar but, " if salt loses its strength, with what will it be seasoned with?"

So, I am trying to ask as to what I personally need to understand for ME , and I see that since salt is extremely valuable, concentrated, and essential for life, if I am lacking...in faith...then I can be the cause of my salt losing its strength. But there was more to this understanding also.

So I was asked, "HOW or WHY can salt lose its strength? "
I found a couple facts interesting.

http://askascientist.co.uk/chemistry/ca ... saltyness/
Can salt lose its saltiness?

Common salt comprises a very stable, simple chemical compound called sodium chloride, which has a salty flavour. As table salt, it typically also contains minor amounts of additives to keep it free-flowing.

As it is so chemically stable, sodium chloride will not lose its saltiness, even after being stored dry for many years. However, there are ways in which salt may appear to lose its saltiness.

Historically, salt has been obtained from crude sources such as salt marshes, and minerals such as rock salt. This contains the stable sodium chloride plus other components. Sodium chloride is readily water-soluble, so if this crude salt were exposed to condensation or rain water, the sodium chloride could be dissolved and removed, and the salt could in effect lose its saltiness.

Also, the salty flavor is detected by our sense of taste. If there were a physiological change in the functioning of our taste buds, salt consumed may no longer taste the same, but this would not be due to any inherent change in the salt itself.


In summary, salt, i.e. sodium chloride, is a very stable material which retains its properties when stored dry.

So, in returning to my Lords words about salt, and how we are cautioned as to not allowing the salt that we ARE as disciples to become " less salty" ....I asked how can that be done? How can it ultimately affect our faith?
The answer was in this reading and Him explaining it in a spiritual sense to me.

If our Lord represents the ONLY TRUE source of " living water" ( holy water/ spirit ), clean, undefiled, the " true rockmass " that we are to drink from daily, His water is the purest form and anything else would be non- living water. ( polluted )

Since one of the ways salt can lose its strength is " diluting it with water or condensation"...if we allow ourselves to dilute our salt with a source of water that is NOT PURE or from another source....Other than Christ, we could be losing our saltiness or strength.

Yes, we all have a choice as to how we use our salt, but when we rely on anything or anyone else over the purest source of water, which is CHRIST, pollution sets in. This can cause doubt which is " a lack of faith" in what we are hearing, it gets cloudy ( murky) and hard to hear. Then we cannot or do not share because we doubt the source that it originally came form before we allowed polluted, non-living water into our hearts therefore becoming " less salty".

The article also mentioned if there was a " physiological change in the functioning of our taste buds" ...
salt consumed many no longer taste the same.

Can we control our own taste buds? Can we spiritually allow our heart to become dull or hard or stubborn that we no longer " Like" the taste of salt? Pure salt???....

So that we might start " preferring" salt that is not so salty?!!! Because it is much more palpable this way? Pure salt is so hard to swallow. Sometimes impossible it feels.
We might justify what we hear because it is too salty and choose to sweeten it up a little because we do not think that is truly US or it is not what we want to HEAR.

But the purest form is the most valuable...it IS life- saving. And we are cautioned to NOT lose our salt strength, so as to become unstable and of no value. CHRIST reminds us to maintain being ....
" The salt of the earth!"

Just wanted to share something I was hearing today
I'm sure others have things to share that they are hearing. ;) :D

Love to you
Justmom


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:55 pm 
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But the purest form is the most valuable...it IS life- saving. And we are cautioned to NOT lose our salt strength, so as to become unstable and of no value. CHRIST reminds us to maintain being ....
" The salt of the earth!"


Yes : )

Peace to you,
tammy


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Location: I dare you to close your eyes...
Lot's daughter must be the pinnacle then ;)

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