xjwsforChrist

I've been a little disturbed at something I came across on the internet that says God destroyed those cities basically to bring relief to the innocent victims (children).

Was it to get rid of the wicked or to end suffering or both (or other)? It doesn't seem right to destroy the victims because of their outcries.

What do you think?

Hi Ataloa!


Even without looking at the article, or even the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, we know that this is not true... just by looking at Christ.

For one, what did Christ say to the Jews?

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how I have longed to gather your children as a hen gathers her chicks beneath her wings, but you were not willing."

And again, when the Israelites were told that they would wander in the desert, it was only that generation that was held accountable, and not the children of that generation.

If God does not punish the children for the sins of the fathers, how could he kill the victims for the sins of their tormentors?

God does not kill victims to put them out of their misery. That line of reasoning is sort of the same as God killed or allowed children to be killed (in accidents or assault) because he needed 'more angels'... and He wanted them in heaven.

Men and religion teach a lot of false things. But we know to look at Christ for the Truth.

Now the account says itself what the problem was, because the outcry against that city was so great. Something I always understood to mean people outside were being harmed BY those inside the city. And God told Abraham that He would spare the ENTIRE city, unrighteous along with the righteous, for the sake of the righteous, if just five righteous people could be found. (I think the number was five... nope, ten, just checked)

People coming INTO the city were being accosted... as they proved by accosting the angels that went into the city.

Hope that helps a bit.

peace,
tammy

Or it might have just been a freak meteor hit that was retroactively attributed to God

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Actually someone once explained to me *kes* that It wasn't destroyed because of God's will, but rather that someone was praying against it and it was heard.

"”20And the LORD said, “The outcry of Sodom and Gomorrah is indeed great, and their sin is exceedingly grave.21“I will go down now, and see if they have done entirely according to its outcry, which has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”


I have since then understood it as not 'God's fault' or his will for it to be destroyed but rather, someone praying for it's destruction.

Which makes sense how people tend to cry and pray and say things like 'THEY DESTROY my houses etc.. bring an end to this!' etc.. whatever either way. If it was not 'God's will' ...then surely he did not WANT to destroy it. It was the will of the PEOPLE.



Me

Well, now, let's see, dear V (peace to you, luv!): Lot got out. His wife got out... although not to the mountains. His two daughters got out. Makes four... and JAH said HE would NOT destroy Sodom if there were at least give righteous people there. One short? Don't think so, since it was destroyed.

So who was praying for its destruction? Who... or WHAT... would be making that "outcry"? Only one thing I can think of: blood. And not just spilled blood but spilled to the point of emptying out of life. So maybe the outcry wasn't just the result of mere backdoor-ism, as many believe... but what may have taken place AFTER such??

The account does imply that some pretty terrible things were being done in those cities. And would every have to be directly involved? Couldn't one be culpable for merely standing by... even watching... and not doing a dang thing to stop "something", if not literally consigning it?

Things that make one go "hmmmmm..."

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

You also might want to read Ezekiel 16:49-- to see what further sins were the sins of Sodom. Just a thought. . . .

I see what you are saying. I do not deny that shedding innocent blood and various other acts probably did exist. I simply used one exaclty (preferably something that FIRST popped in my head just to make sure I could contribute what i knew of)

I didn't undermine the sins of S&G but in my haste, might have given off the wrong impression of perhaps a 'naive thinker'... Even though i am, but only because I was haste

Me

Ummmmm... I was AGREEING with you (and dear Kes - peace to BOTH of you, dear ones!), dear V - LOLOLOL! Sorry if it seemed like I wasn't. I was just trying to show that it was NOT merely sodomy that was the issue, not even. My apologies for the confusion, luv!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

Thanks everyone for giving me so much to think about. I realize I really do not know very much about that account at all.

Very interesting thought in Ezekiel, Armand. They did not help the poor and needy. Maybe many of them died because of the indifference and their blood was crying out?

Ataloa:

You might consider reading the First Chapter of the Book of Isaiah. It is a MOST interesting read. Remember in Ezekiel, Israel is likened to S & G; well, in Isaiah Israel/Judah is again likened to S & G. And Isaiah is more "descriptive" of Israel/Judah and here likens Israel/Judah TO S & G. And Ezekiel says that what Israel/Judah has done is WORSE than what S & G did, yet they are likened to each other. So now we get a better or more clear view of what kind of things went on in S & G.

This might answer your question more precisely. Anyway, just thought you'd like to read that First Chapter of Isaiah. Like I said--a MOST INTERESTING read.

--Armand

I did read that chapter of Isaiah; my mind appears just to be stalled out on this subject and not able to focus, so I really don't know what the answer is.

Perhaps it is not for me to know in case I might not be able to bear it; but I continue disturbed.

Perhaps this will help, dear Ataloa (peace to you!):

10 Hear the word of JaHVeH,
you rulers of Sodom;
listen to the instruction of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!
11 “The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says JaHVeH.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
12 When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.
Your hands are full of blood!
16 Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
17 Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.[a]
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow.
18 “Come now, let us settle the matter,”
says JaHVeH.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient,
you will eat the good things of the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel,
you will be devoured by the sword.”
For the mouth of JaHVeH has spoken.
21 See how the faithful city
has become a prostitute!
She once was full of justice;
righteousness used to dwell in her—
but now murderers!
22 Your silver has become dross,
your choice wine is diluted with water.
23 Your rulers are rebels,
partners with thieves;
they all love bribes
and chase after gifts.
They do not defend the cause of the fatherless;
the widow’s case does not come before them.
24 Therefore JaHVeH, the Lord Almighty,
the Mighty One of Israel, declares:
“Ah! I will vent my wrath on my foes
and avenge myself on my enemies.
25 I will turn my hand against you;
I will thoroughly purge away your dross
and remove all your impurities.
26 I will restore your leaders as in days of old,
your rulers as at the beginning.
Afterward you will be called
the City of Righteousness,
the Faithful City.”

27 Zion will be delivered with justice,
her penitent ones with righteousness.
28 But rebels and sinners will both be broken,
and those who forsake JaHVeH will perish.
29 “You will be ashamed because of the sacred oaks
in which you have delighted;
you will be disgraced because of the gardens
that you have chosen.
30 You will be like an oak with fading leaves,
like a garden without water.
31 The mighty man will become tinder
and his work a spark;
both will burn together,
with no one to quench the fire.”
Isaiah 1:10-31 (NIV)

Yes, I kept thinking there had to be SOME bloodshed, dear Armand (peace to you, as well!)... because the CRY (of complaint) was great. It is the blood that speaks... and so cries out when wrongly spilled (as in murder)- Genesis 4:10; 2 Kings 9:26; Isaiah 26:21; Hebrews 12:24

Thank you, both, for bringing this to our attention!

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Great point!


I never caught that! The blood shed was so great.

And Jah heard the blood cry out of those unjustly killed.

And S&G had to answer for their bloodshed.

Wow!
Thank you all for that!

Justmom

S&G were guilty of atrocious crimes against God and Man.
Punishment was appropriate.
Imagine a town were not even 10 people can be shown to be good.
Let that sink in...
Picture the worse possible place in the world and you will still find people trying to do good, but not in S&G.
Imagine that.

The only thing that can be asked is, why stop there?

Love, dear P (peace, luv!). Because love... covers... a MULTITUDE of transgressions. Absolutely no other reason.

Peace... and yeah, not even 10 good people. Sad.

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama