xjwsforChrist

Our Lord is Christ. I follow Christ.

Christ is in His Church. I am not saying that you are not speaking with Christ. But, you said that you would judge the truth or not of the Bible by what Christ told you, and that just doesn't work, because Christ does not work like that.

He sets the example. Everything he did was in accordance with and in fulfilment of Holy Scripture. To say that you will judge whether or not a Scripture is true by what Christ tells you in speaking with you personally is just daft, Tammy.

It's just silly. It's like saying you do not believe five times nine is forty-five because you asked and were told it is forty-six. It's like saying the world is flat not round because you personally were told it is flat.

There are things that are true. There are things that are untrue. If you judge things just by your own thought the likelihood of you being right as opposed to the rest of the world is infinitesimally minimal. If you judge something or decide with half a dozen others to adopt a new belief that Christ gives personal statements to you in contradiction of what he tells everyone else, well, that's either very arrogant (which I do not believe you are) or very mistaken indeed.

Remember, this is not a discussion about prayer. I'm not objecting to you talking to Christ in your head. Shelby's right. We all do that. Many, including me, call it one form of prayer, a term Shelby for some reason doesn't like.

But we are not talking about that. We're talking about you saying you will only accept even bits of the Bible if the spirit inside you tells you it is right. I'm saying, that's bonkers. And it is. Sorry to say it, but it really is.

Zoe, I'm not seriously worried about Tammy either and I happen to like her and everyone here very much. But on this I think either that she hasn't thought it through and doesn't realise the enormity of what she's saying, or has just plain got it wildly, wildly wrong.

Tammy, and everyone else who thinks like that, you'll do what you choose to. It's no problem to me. I think eventually you'll wake up, and if you don't, well, God love you anyway! But, sure as one and one make two, you've gone way over the top on this one.

Zoe, yes, do read those unfamiliar books. You'll find Maccabees is mainly historical and fills in a bit more of Jewish history. The Book of Tobit is interesting and the story of Tobias and the angel is very famous and very beautiful. It is all about having faith in God, as are many other sections.

Thats cool..I like old books..
.........................OUTLAW

_________________

I don't think you are saying that. But rather that Christ is not speaking with me.



Are you under the impression that the bible is inerrant, then? If so, why?

Or are you under the impression that the entire bible is scripture? If so, why? Scripture is what is given from the Spirit. Scripture is inspired... as Paul is written to have said. All scripture is inspired. That is true.

But as is also written,

"How can you say, 'We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,' when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (jeremiah 8:8)

Or as Christ Himself is written to have said, "Woe to you scribes."

Yes, what is written should be tested against Christ and against love.

An inspired expression written down, still began as an inspired expression... and we are told to 'test the inspired expression.'

You also know that when the bible was being compiled, that the men doing so... rejected some things. How did they do so? Seems to me that they did some testing of their own... what means that used TO test, I do not know, but they did not just take it because someone said it was inspired scripture.



Why not? How do you know? We are told to test the inspired expression. Christ Himself said "woe to the scribes". He also asked the pharisees why they nullify the word of God by their 'traditions'.




Yes, he did... and still does. In spirit and in truth.



First... I am not judging at all. I am listening for Him to teach ME what is true and what is not. Sometimes that means teaching me the meaning of something written, rather than trusting in man's interpretation... no matter how mainstream or traditional that might be.

Second... I did not say that I would judge whether a scripture is true. Scripture is inspired... but not everything written is scripture, and not even everything scripture is inerrant. Certainly man's interpretations are not inerrant. So if something does not meet love, or what He teaches, then either it is wrong, or man understands/interprets it wrong. The question in this thread was... are these new books inspired. Not... is this scripture inspired.




That would only compare if the Bible was inerrant, or even ALL scripture. But it is neither of these things. There is no reason to even think that it is these things.



Again... not my own thought... but rather testing against the Truth, and what HE teaches, and love.

I'm not trusting something as true just because it is written down and called true.

Neither did those monks and/or scholars who compiled the bible as it is today, for that matter.



Assuming He is telling everyone else something else in the first place. But how? I don't think you are claiming that He is telling anyone anything. Only that we are to listen to the traditions and teachings handed down from the apostles. Hoping that there have been no errors along the way, but we know that there have been.

Christ is not divided, though. Religion is.



I think it is mistaken to state that He cannot and does not speak... or that one should listen to men over Him.

This is not something that can be resolved in a 'yes he does speak to me' or a 'no he does not speak to you'

What CAN be done though... is testing the inspired expressions that a person shares. Hold those up to the light, who is Christ.

What CAN be done... and SHOULD be done... is to go to HIM, and ask HIM. Not according to what the church teaches... because that is like asking Him through another mediator, if His words have to pass what they say is right.

Just ask Him. Look to Him. No one else. Not me. Not religion. Not the RCC. Not the WTS. Just Christ. In spirit and in truth.

Peace,
tammy

He wouldn't.



My sheep hear my voice. (religion gets around this by suggesting that this is symbolic)

When the counsellor comes, He will remind you of all that I have said. (the Spirit very often reminds me of something Christ once said/taught... and is written down)

When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about what to say or how to defend yourselves, for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what do say. (as opposed to all the prepping, etc, that people do; which is a lacking in faith in Him and in His words here)

The Holy Spirit will teach you all things. (not the bible, not men, not religion)

But when He, the Spirit of Truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on His own; He will speak only as He hears; and He will tell you what is yet to come.


Those are just a few examples of what CHRIST said. Never mind the example we have in Paul... who did not go and learn from Peter. But who learned from Christ, Himself, in Spirit.[/quote]

If the Spirit were Christ himself, then would he have been speaking there of himself in the third person?



You just recited that teaching above, but you don't realise what it is. Yup. You swallowed it.



Yes, the church, that is to say the Body of all those who follow him. [/quote]

Yes!!!! We agree! All the Christians throughout the world who follow Christ and believe in him are his church!!!!! Hooray! At last we agree. So do you think he tells each of them, individually, in their own head, their own individual truth? What nonsense! Impossible!



Read John 14:26. "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have said to you.



Good. Then perhaps you'll actually think.



Oh no, you don't "know" that, you are assuming that.

I have total faith in Christ and in God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, one God in Three Persons, Blessed Trinity. I trust Him implicitly and trust his Word in Holy Scripture, as well as in His Church. I believe and trust that Christ died for us to save us from our sins. I believe and trust that Christ conquered death and rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven where he sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from where he will come to judge both the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, whom the Father sent in Christ's Name, just as Christ promised, the Holy Spirit who moved on the face of the waters when God first created Earth. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church ...as Paul Sacramento has confirmed, in case you don't take my word for it, the word catholic means universal, and you have just agreed that the church is the body of all believers, hooray! I believe in the communion of saints (of which Saint Paul wrote as "so great a cloud of witnesses" that "surround" us, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body (I never knew before that Shelby doesn't believe in that so presumably you don't either) and the life everlasting.

I have total faith in Christ, Tammy. Complete faith. And faith in Christ has never led me, with my limited though partial knowledge of Hebrew and Greek and Latin, to assume I can judge whether or not a Scripture is valid by what thinking in my own head, or what I think Christ says to me is valid. Christ speaks to me in very many ways, through the Bible, through my own prayers, through other people, through the church, through the beggar on the street and the starving children in war-torn areas of the world. He doesn't ask me to believe my own judgement above the word of Scripture.

Scripture shows us, Christ showed us the wrongness and folly of self-aggrandisement, self-delusion. Look what happened when he spent forty days and forty nights in the wilderness. The Devil tempted him, showed him the high places, offered him the world. Christ turned his back on that. He knew he must follow the word of his Father in Heaven. Christ would absolutely never lead someone to assume they know best like that. What so you think the Bible is for? What's the point of having a written Scripture if each person can just make up their own according to the spirit within them, inside their own heads?

Tammy, just to be clear, of course I am not saying Christ doesn't speak to you. I said exactly the opposite!

I said he speaks to everyone AND, indeed, as the Word of God, he speaks through Holy Scripture. What he doesn't and wouldn't do is give you or any one person carte blanche to reinterpret what Scripture says, and that is ALL I said.

I repeat: we are NOT discussing whether or not Christ speaks to you or me or anyone. I have no reason to doubt that he does. I am sure he does.

But what Christ would NOT do is tell you that you know better than the Bible. Remember, you said you would judge what he told you, in other words your perception of receiving unique independent ability to assess whether or not something in the Bible is true or valid, against something the Bible said. I pointed out that surely you couldn't actually be saying that, and you have been reiterating that you did indeed mean that.

But you see, Tammy, if a spirit told me that, I would absolutely know that such a spirit wasn't from God. He wouldn't be telling me I was as important as that. I do not have the power nor the authority to judge that an answer that appears to me to contradict the Bible (remember, this is what you said) is true over the Bible.

That is bonkers. Impossible. So, if a spirit told me that, I'd know that it had identified itself as NOT a spirit from God. There are other spirits, you know, and I would NOT want to be listening to those!

Don't you see?

This is one of a few apps that I use



Bible by LifeChurch.tv
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bible/id282935706?mt=8

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

I saw that in the app store. Useful!

The Bible is online in several places, in lots of translations.

Using an iPad for complicated series of quotes gets muddling sometimes. My penultimate post looks confusing, sorry everyone, and especially Tammy. It looks as though some of what I wrote there has passages that are in fact what Tammy wrote. I got the HTML quote tags a bit wrong, sorry.

That doesn't answer the question i asked. I guarantee the jw would give the same answer. You have not answered the questions I asked you about inerrancy and scripture either.

When you asked me the same question... I answered the question that you asked.



He could have yes. He had not yet been risen to glory, to BE the Holy Spirit. But He actually makes it clear Himself. Switching from 3rd person, to 1st person, in the same talk:

"If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans.

[i] I will come to you. [/i] Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and obyes them he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father and I too will love him and show myslef to him."

So lets compare the similarities:

The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him.

To:

Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me...


...

And

But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you.

To:

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

...
As well as...

He will give you another counsellor to be with you forever...

To the following:

I will not leave you as orphans, I will come to you



That doesn't make sense Char. How could I have swallowed something from them regarding peter, that I did not know they taught, and that they did not teach me? That makes no sense at all.

I still don't know even what you are referring to. I know only what my Lord taught me on the matter. If it happens to coincide with something someone else teaches... then so what?

If you have to reject something that the wts teaches, just because they teach it... regardless of whether it is true or not... then you are not completely free of them.

Just as a person should not accept everything that a certain group or person says JUST BECAUSE they say it; one should not reject everything that a group or person says JUST BECAUSE they reject it.

I'm sure that is some sort of a rhetorical fallacy also. I don't reject everything the catholic church teaches JUST BECAUSE it comes from the catholic church. Teachings stand or fall on their merit against the Light; the Truth; Christ.



Of course not, and I have never said such a thing. There is one Truth, and He is not divided. Oddly enough though... religion IS divided, even among 'christians'.

That people follow various truths shows that not all who claim to be following and listening to Him are actually doing so. Christ, however, is not divided. Not that it is upon us to judge or to know who He is calling; or who belongs to Him. Many are called, few are chosen... but the choosing is for Him to do. Not for us to say who is or is not chosen. WE can certainly test the inspired expressions though, and perhaps what is being DONE. (say torture in the name of Christ for example... or killing in His name... those are extreme examples but they have been done, and if people knew to test all against Christ, rather then believe what they are being told, more might have spoken against these things. Though some probably kept silent out of fear of being tortured and killed, themselves)



You mean the way that you are assuming that I am not thinking, or that I am just 'swallowing' some jw teaching?

I will get back to you on the rest of what you wrote, because I have a feeling that this post is getting too long as it is.

Peace,
tammy

I do not think you are hearing me, Char... and I do not think that you can hear me. So we may have to agree to disagree on this one.




Okay... but Christ does not have to speak THROUGH anything or anyone else. One can listen to Him speak TO us. Not through someone or something else... but spirit to spirit.



This is why I say that you are not hearing me.

Nowhere have I said that He has He asked me to believe my own judgment... nowhere have I said that I DO believe my own judgment. Indeed, I specifically do NOT rely upon my own judgment. The very reason I said to Zoe at the OP of this thread... that I would have to ask HIM, to know the Truth of the matter. I could guess on my own. I could 'think' on my own.

But to know the TRUTH... I ask the TRUTH.

So... the exact opposite of judging on my own.



See above.



The accounts in the bible are a witness to Christ. To help people to see who need to walk by sight still, to help them develop their faith. Like the law was a tutor leading to Christ. But when Christ came... we are to listen to and look at HIM. In Spirit.




Okay.

I did not answer anything else in that last post, just because I think it is a repeat of the previous post, and I think I answered all of that as I can. I would just be repeating myself also ; )


Peace,
tammy

I figured it out, lol. No worries and no need to apologize for such a thing!

Peace to you,
tammy

Chariklo said...
Tammy, just to be clear, of course I am not saying Christ doesn't speak to you. I said exactly the opposite!

I said he speaks to everyone AND, indeed, as the Word of God, he speaks through Holy Scripture. What he doesn't and wouldn't do is give you or any one person carte blanche to reinterpret what Scripture says, and that is ALL I said.

I repeat: we are NOT discussing whether or not Christ speaks to you or me or anyone. I have no reason to doubt that he does. I am sure he does.

But what Christ would NOT do is tell you that you know better than the Bible. Remember, you said you would judge what he told you, in other words your perception of receiving unique independent ability to assess whether or not something in the Bible is true or valid, against something the Bible said. I pointed out that surely you couldn't actually be saying that, and you have been reiterating that you did indeed mean that.

But you see, Tammy, if a spirit told me that, I would absolutely know that such a spirit wasn't from God. He wouldn't be telling me I was as important as that. I do not have the power nor the authority to judge that an answer that appears to me to contradict the Bible (remember, this is what you said) is true over the Bible.

That is bonkers. Impossible. So, if a spirit told me that, I'd know that it had identified itself as NOT a spirit from God. There are other spirits, you know, and I would NOT want to be listening to those!

Hello....

So if Christ can and does speak and I am a bit confused at times, because some don't think he works this way still. ...

He is Alive and is THE WORD OF GOD! Not the bible! The bible was the law given because Israel couldn't and still can't walk by faith and not by sight. It is the law, the prophets, the psalms and the revelation that are scripture, the rest is added in but not inspired. Christ fulfilled the law and ALL that is written and told us that the law was now to be on our hearts not on stone or written. That we were to walk by faith not by sight, and that Holy Spirit would teach us all things and that those that had this free gift of the spirit would no longer need man teaching them anything at all. Spirit would teach and bring back to mind...

Christ warned us of false interpreters and scribes, those twisting the scriptures to their own destruction, and warned us not to be misled by them.
If Holy Spirit is perfect, then there will times when he teaches us something that is different from what is written that had been tampered with or changed. He prepared us for this, so we did not need to rely anymore on what would enslave us because of mans traditions again by relying on an imperfect book.
This book is where the root of fear, guilt, slavery, lies, hypocrisy originates and continues because man continually craves to be lead by man. " man dominates man to his own injury. "

Instead of following the one whom Jah sent for us to listen to. They didn't want to listen to him then....and put him to death in the flesh....and still do not want to listen to him so try to put him to death in the spirit ( which they can't) but do so by SAYING he doesn't speak a voice that those that belong to him would hear! by saying " He just doesn't work like that."

Please understand, the bible is a teacher to lead us to the one that fulfilled all written, but once we have been found by him, we are to come to him now and not need what is written. It is called " the elementary things in the bible" and relying on " milk" when CHRIST wants to feed us meat.

So why wouldn't someone welcome truth from the source of TRUTH himself verses trusting something man rehashes over and over in translation and we are at their mercy of accuracy. Also religion who may say CHRIST is their only mediator between them and God but folks readily admit that they are convinced CHRIST wouldn't tell them something different than what is in their church ( been there) .

And this is a man made structure that through the ages has promoted war, slavery, abuse, ( sexual, physical, emotional, psychological, spiritual) lies, mistakes, changing new light for old light etc, and or even built upon if you believe this way, a MAN who don't get me wrong is my brother in CHRIST and a man of faith but is imperfect like me because he took vengeance upon himself and denied my Lord three different occasions.

So yes I will stick to what I hear from the " pure source". Yes I will test it against LOVE!!!! Religion has and continually fails in this regard simply by this test alone. This is why my Lords body belong to him and not a structure. This is why and how they remain as virgins, chaste.


Wanted to share again that this gift, the Holy Spirit is FREE!!!!! Our Lords voice is calling out to His sheep. He knows us. He's alive and speaks, regardless of what religion teaches you. If you hear HIM, then you no longer need THEM! And man through religion just will not allow for that kind of behavior.
Think of all the money, the glory, the riches, the prominence they might loose....to the one that died for the world of mankind.

Who do YOU believe deserves our ears, our love and our obedience???

Love Justmom

This back and forth has been done many times already just look at past threads and y'all will see where my opinion is

Did Jesus name any particular Old Testament "book" as having been written by a false scribe? Did he name any specific verse?

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

There is no Bible inspired by God, dear Zoe (peace to you, dear one!). The only writings inspired by God are scripture. And the Bible is not scripture. The Bible is a canonization of various writings, INCLUDING scripture, but ALSO histories, records, chronologies, and letters. "Scripture" is that which was written by men who were inspired (i.e., IN spirit) at the time, were TOLD (by God/Christ) to write, and were borne along by holy spirit when they did so write. Which means that only Moses, the Prophets, the Psalms, and the Revelation are "scripture."

Luke and John help us appreciate which writings are "scripture":

"Now that very same day, two of them were on their way to a village called Emmaus, seven miles from Jerusalem, and they were talking together about all that had happened. And it happened that as they were talking together and discussing it, [Jesus] himself came up and walked by their side; but their eyes were prevented from recognising him. He said to them, 'What are all these things that you are discussing as you walk along?' They stopped, their faces downcast. Then one of them, called Cleopas, answered him, 'You must be the only person staying in Jerusalem who does not know the things that have been happening there these last few days.' He asked, 'What things?' They answered, 'All about [Jesus] of Nazareth, who showed himself a prophet powerful in action and speech before God and the whole people; and how our chief priests and our leaders handed him over to be sentenced to death, and had him crucified. Our own hope had been that he would be the one to set Israel free. And this is not all: two whole days have now gone by since it all happened; and some women from our group have astounded us: they went to the tomb in the early morning, and when they could not find the body, they came back to tell us they had seen a vision of angels who declared he was alive. Some of our friends went to the tomb and found everything exactly as the women had reported, but of him they saw nothing.'

"Then he said to them, 'You foolish men! So slow to believe all that the prophets have said! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer before entering into his glory?' Then, starting with Moses and going through all the prophets, he explained to them the passages throughout the scriptures that were about himself.

"When they drew near to the village to which they were going, he made as if to go on; but they pressed him to stay with them saying, 'It is nearly evening, and the day is almost over.' So he went in to stay with them. Now while he was with them at table, he took the bread and said the blessing; then he broke it and handed it to them. And their eyes were opened and they recognised him; but he had vanished from their sight. Then they said to each other, 'Did not our hearts burn within us as he talked to us on the road and explained the scriptures to us?'

"They set out that instant and returned to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven assembled together with their companions, who said to them, 'The Lord has indeed risen and has appeared to Simon.' Then they told their story of what had happened on the road and how they had recognised him at the breaking of bread. They were still talking about all this when he himself stood among them and said to them, 'Peace be with you!' In a state of alarm and fright, they thought they were seeing a ghost. But he said, 'Why are you so agitated, and why are these doubts stirring in your hearts? See by my hands and my feet that it is I myself. Touch me and see for yourselves; a ghost has no flesh and bones as you can see I have.'

"And as he said this he showed them his hands and his feet. Their joy was so great that they still could not believe it, as they were dumbfounded; so he said to them, 'Have you anything here to eat?' And they offered him a piece of grilled fish, which he took and ate before their eyes. Then he told them, 'This is what I meant when I said, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses, in the Prophets and in the Psalms, was destined to be fulfilled.' He then opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and he said to them, 'So it is written that the Christ would suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that, in his name, repentance for the forgiveness of sins would be preached to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem." Luke 24:13-47

Luke even lets us know that HIS accounts were not inspired. How could they be unless they were conscripted by God, and received from/related by God? But Luke TELLS us how and from whom he received what he wrote... and FOR whom:

"Seeing that many others have undertaken to draw up accounts of the events that have reached their fulfilment among us, as these were handed down to us by those who from the outset were eyewitnesses and ministers of the Word, I in my turn, after carefully going over the whole story from the beginning, have decided to write an ordered account for you, Theophilus, so that your Excellency may learn how well founded the teaching is that you have received." Luke 1:1-4

Wait. What? Luke was even told to write an account by God, let alone was an eyewitness himself, but "decided" to write one himself... or perhaps was conscripted to write one... NOT for the Body of Christ... but for "Theophilus"??? And if "Theophilus" was a member of Christ's Body, why did he need an account in order to know how "well founded" the teaching he received WAS? Didn't his anointing with holy spirit (or, for those who need it stated this way, the Holy Spirit) tell him? 1 John 2:26-28

What about his accounts of the Apostles' acts? Well, he opens with:

"In my earlier work, Theophilus," Acts 1:1

Funny, when Paul, Peter, James, and Jude wrote THEIR letters, they either greeted the "congregation" (Body)... or somehow acknowledged the recipient as a member OF the Body. Luke, though, didn't do that with "Theophilus," though. Nope, he said WHY he was writing that man: to give him a record so that the man would know that the teachings he received WERE well founded. THEN, "Theophilus" could decide what to choose. But he hadn't prior to.

But let's see what Christ himself is recorded to say about the scriptures:

"You pore over the scriptures, believing that in them you can find eternal life; it is these scriptures that testify to me, and yet you refuse to come to me to receive life!" John 5:39, 40 (Jerusalem Bible)

When my Lord first showed me these verses I was FLABBERGASTED. I kept going to the Bible/scriptures to see if what HE was telling me was true! He eventually set me straight, though. He said, it is not to the scriptures I should go to check and see if what HE tells me true; it is to HIM I must go... in order to know whether what the "scriptures" say is true or not! Be HE... IS the TRUTH, not them. And... they are not necessarily to be trusted, as written. Hence, HIS condemnation of the hypocrisy (and so its results) of the scribes:

"Alas for you... scribes, hypocrites! ... You serpents, brood of vipers, how can you escape being condemned to hell? ... you will draw down on yourselves the blood of every upright person that has been shed on earth, from the blood of Abel the holy to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar." - Matthew 23:13, 15, 23, 25, 27, 29, 33-35 (Jerusalem Bible)

He said this due to THEIR fulfillment of the prophecy given to Jeremiah ABOUT them:

"How can you say, 'We are wise, since we have [Yahweh's] Law?' Look how it has been falsified by the lying pen of the scribes!" Jeremiah 8:8

Whoa... wait... isn't the LAW scripture??! It certainly is. Yet, Jeremiah stated that the LAW... had been falsified by the lying pen of the scribes! But how can that BE? How can scripture BE falsified? It's God's WORD, right? HE wrote the Law Himself, yes? So, how in the world can it be tampered with??

Makes me shake my head when people say that the Bible hasn't been tampered with (goodness, the LAW has been tampered with... so SCRIPTURE has been tampered with... so OF COURSE the Bible can be tampered with! Look at all the VERSIONS of it! And from where do most, if not SOME part of every one of those version come? The Septuagint (LXX), which absolutely was tampered with (ask the Masoretes)... because it was THAT Bible version that Christ was condemning! THAT was the "bible" (compilation of scripture) of his day!

And so what dear tec (peace to you, luv!) was saying, dear Char (peace to you, as well!)... was that she GETS what Christ meant at John 5:39 40: that we can search/pore over the scriptures... or we can simply go to Christ. Like her, I choose to go to Christ. And if HE says a scripture/verse is accurate and maintains its integrity... or means what it states... or originally said what it does now... or didn't... then I trust HIM... over what I see with my eyes (in writing). Because he once said to me:

"All that tell you IS written, but not all that is written is what I will say to you."

He meant that all that he tells me is written... SOMEWHERE, but NOT necessarily in the Bible... and all that is written in the Bible is NOT necessarily what he would tell me. Because it is NOT necessarily the truth. HE, though... IS the Truth and HIS mouth speaks ONLY what is true and what is upright. There is NOTHING wicked or false in it.

The problem is that people put Paul... who said "All scripture is inspired and beneficial..." OVER CHRIST... who said... "You search/pore over the scriptures... yet you do not want to come to me..." and "Woe, to you... scribes, hypocrites!"

They do this because they don't REALLY know who they TRULY follow. Usually, it's Paul... not Christ. An error. Hopefully, they will "turn around"... and follow the Lamb... and him ALONE... wherever HE goes. They can do this if they would just turn their ear toward him and put their gaze on him. May those who truly WISH to do so, then, hear... when he, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... who IS the Spirit... and his Bride... say to such one:

"Come! Take 'life's water'... which water, holy spirit, is poured out from the innermost parts of that one (John 7:37, 38)... FREE!"

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you all!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama, who read Judit, Tobit, the Maccabees, the Apophrycal books, alll of the uncanonized gospels, Enoch, the Didache, and more... until my Lord himself asked me why, when I had him right there... and if I wanted to know something why not ask him... duh...

In my opinion, this debate is similar to the comparison between theory and practice.

Reading books on a subject, listening to talks or sermons, is one step removed from the reality of living the experience. In a similar way, reading ABOUT Christ and what he said, is important to lead us to Him, yes. But once we find Him, or rather more accurately He finds US, the magnitude of that living relationship makes the former pale into insignificance by comparison.

The adopting of us into the body, individually, as was promised, changes us completely. We become actual sons and daughters of Jah, brothers and sisters of Christ. Our hearts are changed, the Spirit is now WITHIN us, not some concept in a book or a sermon that we might hope for, but actually a PART OF US. On that basis we respond to it and to what we hear from that Spirit, which is Christ.

To deny it is unthinkable, to pretend it hasn't happened, and to revert to, 'acceptable to man's ' traditions of religion, would for me, be a such a blasphemous thing to do, and would be an offence to the power of Jah and His son, and a neglect of the wonderful relationship they offer.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Did Jesus name any particular Old Testament "book" as having been written by a false scribe? Did he name any specific verse?

Two things come to MY mind and heart, dear Pup (good morning and peace to you!): first, did he HAVE to? If he was telling folks to come after him, to follow him, that searching/poring over the scriptures wouldn't get them what they were seeking... why would he turn them TO the Bible? HE WAS THERE. Why in the WORLD would they need to even LOOK at a Bible during his presence in the flesh? To "see"... what?? Whether what he was saying was TRUE? If that was the case, then they DIDN'T believe he was MischaJah (Messiah), right? Because if they believed he WAS... what was there TO doubt in what he was telling them?

In case you (or someone else) doesn't understand what I mean... or I'm unclear: if Christ were to empirically appear on the earth TODAY... and you KNEW it was him... would you run to the Bible to check whatever he said to you? If you did, could you TRULY say you TRULY believed... had faith... that he WAS Christ? Or... would the truth be that you really weren't sure? Peter said he KNEW my Lord was the Christ, the Son of God. So, what would he have had to check the Bible/scriptures FOR?

Second, that such is not recorded IN the Bible means... what? Was everything he said to his disciples recorded in the Bible? Dear one, the Bible doesn't even contain ALL of the scriptures.

BUT... to perhaps help some who are having trouble understanding why one would choose to listen to Christ over listening to the Bible... or men... I was given something in the wee hours of this morning that I have come on the board to post. I am sure it will further clarify for some, just as I am sure some will still "kick against the goads." But, ah, well, all one can do is share what one receives. FEED JAH's sheep, as Christ directs them to. I will do that next, then, in a separate thread. Only thing: while one can offer food, one cannot (SHOULD not) make/force another to eat it. Each one must choose for himself/herself whether to accept the offering. Keep in mind: I received it for free... and so I offer it for free. No donations, no contributions, no church meeting to attend, no hours of field service to record, no confession to make... nothing.

If one wishes to get the sense of it, one will. If one wishes to receive it directly from the original Source, same as I did, all one need do is ask. Both, however, take faith. Not a FORM of faith that says, "I believe in Jesus"... but true faith... in the One who can GRANT such "sense" and give such information... that he WILL, if asked.

Peace to you all!

Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with, and a slave of Christ, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah), who is the MOST HOLY One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob... JAH... of Armies (VeH),

SA