xjwsforChrist

Have a great trip Shelby and JustMom, stay safe.
I will be thinking of you a lot.
Hugs from Zoe

THANK you, dear Zoe (peace to you!). Excluding perhaps the airplane ride, we anticipate no "bumps"! LOLOLOL!

Peace to you and your household!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

I can't quite see who posted this (peace to you and , sorry, tired... day of preparation...), but I have to ask:

Are you SURE? My understanding is it is by FAITH... IN the One who died and was resurrected... that we (those who PUT faith in that One)... are saved. And that his death... and resurrection... were the things that were supposed to BOLSTER our faith... SHOW us that he CONQURED death (and so Death, the Destroyer)... NOT so that we might be saved (because, again, that is according to faith), but so that we CAN, those who HAVE faith in him... EXERCISE that faith... such that we might LIVE.

Can you explain, please... whoever made that comment... and those who agree... why you state/believe as you do? What the basis is? I am not trying to contend, truly. I am trying to understand... because this is not my understanding.

Thank you and, again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

The quote was only a partial quote... the discussion was around justification by faith alone or by "works". The question posed to me was "what value, then, do you put on Christ's sacrificing of himself on the Cross?" This was simply a quote further in along the lines of this question.

This may be splitting hairs, but I think we agree that it is by faith that we have salvation, and you are right in that his death and resurrection bolster our faith. However, salvation was made possible by his death and resurrection. He came to take away the sins of the world, and this he did once for all time as a "propitiatory sacrifice".

But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more, therefore, since we have been declared righteous now by his blood, shall we be saved through him from wrath. For if, when we were enemies, we became reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, now that we have become reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
- Rom 5:8-10

And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.
- 1 John 2:2


This is a long thread. I interjected something earlier today starting on page 10 of this thread, so maybe just read from there to get the full context. It was a fun discussion!

P.S. Have a good trip and a safe flight!
-LQ

Just read the thread, Tammy

Rest easy, Shelby. I posted it, so the fact that by your own admission here you don't believe in the saving power of Christ's death and resurrection, the fundamental reason God sent his only Son to earth to die for us, must be ok, because after all if I believe something you can safely deem it wrong. In your book.

Good grief. And you think you are Christian?

Matthew 7:21

To be fair I believe that she means faith and belief in the sacrifice of Jesus is also necessary for salvation.

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Lets have the Pope weigh in :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb ... 20757.html

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

I don't think so, Pup. I think she just means faith in Christ (remember she doesn't acknowledge Jesus and I think she uses the New Age form of "the Christ" anyway)...there's a branch of New Age thinking that considers "the Christ" to be one of what they call the "Ascended Masters".

It's the justification by faith theory, and can extend to meaning faith and faith alone, as I suspect it does here. It denies the saving grace afforded by the power of the Resurrection, as Pope Francis emphasised at Eastertime, and that denial is pretty well echoed above by Shelby. So, if by Shelby, then probably by...let's say at least three others here for sure. Very possibly more.

Because, after all, they talk to "the Christ" or "the Spirit within " them in their heads, though none of them really know if the voice each hears says the same as to the others.

Can i really be the only one here who sees no sign whatsoever that this voice has any chance of being good, let alone from Jesus Christ?

PS YES!!!!!! To Pope Francis' statement! That's pretty well exactly what I said on here maybe two or three weeks ago, but was howled down.

Doesn't faith in Jesus also automatically acknowledge the sacrifice he made and the resurrection? It's hard to separate Jesus from the resurrection. I do believe that Shelby believes in Jesus or Jaheshua Mischajah as she tends to call him

In my experience the only people I know who say they hear an actual voice all reside in this forum. Do they hear Jesus or God? I don't know but I'm not them .

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Yes, you might think people who believe in Jesus would automatically acknowledge the huge saving sacrifice he made, and so might I.

I am not saying Shelby doesn't.

Shelby says so. See above.

AGUEST wrote this:



That? she does go on after that but she did acknowledge the death and resurrection

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

AH, a discussion of "assured salvation" ( once saved, always saved).
IMO, yes, our salvation can be lost.

RE: the Pope's comment.

I agree that those that do good are redeemed in God's eyes, regardless of what they believe.

IMO, John 5 addresses that issue:
Those that believe will NOT be judged.
Then there are those that will be judged based on their righteousness.

Now, belief and faith is NOT a "get out of jail free" card, neither is God amazing gift of Grace.
Because we are under His Grace, what we do we do out of love and NOT to EARN something than can never be earned because, by the simple fact of doing something to earn it, makes the acts intent become tainted.

The gift of grace is like any other gift, it is given freely and the only thing we must "do" is accept it.
Of course accepting it carries a lot of "baggage" that not everyone is willing to carry.

I did; that is why I am asking the question that I asked. Many times when someone quotes a verse from the bible to back up what they have heard, or even just a point that is in conflict with what you or the RCC believes/teaches, you say that they are misusing it... but you do not explain how. As in what it means instead. So that is why I asked, how so.



Shelby uses the name given to her by Christ - Jaheshua. Something that is a good example of faith AND works. Hearing AND obeying. Hear the name; believe the One who told her the name; use the name given to her. Regardless of how much flak that will bring. Faith in Christ, over man. Faith and works.

I am not sure what is New Age about saying the Christ. It is the same as saying the Messiah. I am not sure what is "new age" about that? It is just the accurate title.



I am not sure what you mean here, or what you are saying you think others here believe about faith/works.



Now how can you know something like that, to make a statement about it?

I absolutely can know if I am hearing the same Christ as someone else. By testing the inspired expression someone else utters; by hearing the SAME thing. By asking Christ, Himself.



Char, honestly, the only thing that has changed from when you first joined, that I can see, is that people are speaking against the RCC and some of its policies. Before that occurred, you agreed with the things being heard and shared. Because it was the content, the inspired expression... that mattered. Now you seem to be more focused on defending the RCC. No one you are now finding fault with has spoken a word against Christ.



I do not remember that at all. Unless... are you meaning when you said that all people are the children of God? Because that is in conflict with what Christ, himself says. Not that any single person has the right to even attempt to judge others. But if people who receive Christ are given the right to become children of God, then doesn't that state that not all are children of God to begin with?

I do know that those of us here have been stating that the sheep separated from the goats, after Christ returns, and invited into the kingdom are OTHER THAN those who belong to Christ. Those resurrected, whose names are written in the lamb's book of life (second resurrection), are also other than those who belong to Christ. Because those who belong to Christ - both those who have died and those who are still alive when He returns - are both changed, gathered to Him at the same time.

The others who are invited into the Kingdom are those who did not know Christ, themselves... but who are known BY Christ, by the good they have done. As He said, whatever you have done for the least of these brothers of mine, you have done for me.

Peace,
tammy