xjwsforChrist

Hello Hellpuppy, I will do my best to explain this (bare with me). Before this question can be answered we must first identify what the Holy Spirit is. Before we can understand what the Holy Spirit is, we must first understand what the Son is. Before we can understand what the Son is, we must first understand what the Father is.

Revelation speaks about the "Lamb" being slain BEFORE the creation of the world (Revelation 13:8). Genesis 1:1 says that God created the heavens and the earth. There CANNOT be creation without first having destruction. This is why Genesis 1:2 says "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep" because with the creation of the heavens and the earth came destruction. What was destroyed? THE LAMB OF GOD.

This destruction is alluded to in the story of Abraham and Isaac. In the story Isaac has no idea he will be killed until the deed is about to be done. This is the same thing that happened before the creation of the world. God created the world at the destruction of His only begotten, because he loved the world so much (John 3:16).

God would be a hypocrite to test a human with something he had never accomplished himself. The sacrifice of the Lamb had already long since taken place when God tested Abraham. He sends an angel to intervene because the death of Isaac would have been senseless. God just wanted to know whether Abraham would do the same thing that He had already for existence.

Hinduism has something called "the cosmic man" who was sacrificed in order to create the universe:



Compare this with a concept called "pandeism"



Add all of this up and you will start to understand why Genesis 1:1 has ELOHIM specifically creating the universe rather than Yahweh, the Word or the Holy Spirit alone.

The Father = the Prime Observer who consciously sacrificed the Son in order to create Existence
The Son = the Sacrificial Lamb destroyed at the Founding of the World and the King of Existence
The Holy Spirit = The Sentient Laws of the Universe

All three are present in Genesis 1:1 and ALL are changed after the creation of the heavens and the earth. The Father becomes an impartial Observer, the Son becomes the raw material and Creative Force of the universe and the Holy Spirit becomes the sentient LAWS of the universe. Before, they were all packed into the being called "Elohim" which is a PLURAL word for God. The universe started off with a Big Bang.

So, with all this in mind, what does it mean to blaspheme the Holy Spirit? It means to TURN against the SENTIENT natural laws of the universe. It means total rebellion against all that Elohim has set into motion. That's why it's called the "TEMPORARY enjoyment of sin" because sin IS rebellion against the laws of the universe. For example, if you jump off a dam you have rebelled against the law of gravity which CANNOT be taken back. Turning against the Holy Spirit is akin to turning your back on reality itself which simply CANNOT be forgiven.

-Sab

You know, Sab, when it comes down to it, that's not far off!

What a very interesting way to put it!

Thanks, I try. It's an extremely difficult concept to explain in words.

-Sab

Revelation 13:8 is mistransliterated (peace to you, all!). It isn't saying the Lamb was slain from the founding of the world, but those who names have not been written in the Lamb's book of life SINCE the founding of the world (throwing down of the seed) worship the beast mentioned above the verses.

He was slain once... and so died once. If he had been destroyed in the creation... he would have no longer existed and so have to be brought forth... AGAIN... and as a completely new entity, the prior one having been destroyed. Because nothing DESTROYED every exists again. Had he died, he would have had to be resurrected... AGAIN. But he died ONCE... for ALL time and sins... so as to be resurrected ONCE.

Although his BODY was used as the conduit for creation... just as his vessel of flesh was used to hold sin and take it to the grave... Christ himself was NOT destroyed in the process. No more than he was when he took others' diseases into his body. His spirit body was WEAKENED... just as his FLESHLY body was... when he was used to do JAH's will. Which is why he asked for JAH to give him the "glorify" him AGAIN... rejuvenate in him the light... or ENERGY... he had possessed BEFORE... by means of the spirit BODY he had before he came HERE.

"Glorify me with the glory I had alongside you BEFORE the throwing down of the seed."

He emptied himself out of his former glorified (energized) vessel/body... and took a SLAVE'S "form"... or vessel/body... so as to come here. The (spirit) body he has NOW, however, is even better (glorious) than the one he had from the beginning. Indeed, he proved himself worthy to RECEIVE "robes of state," which, also only a Son, he did not have before. NOW... he is a Son but also a KING... and so possessing a better vessel.

If HE was destroyed, where was "he" from the time of the creation until he came to be with mankind in the flesh? He was WITH the Father the entire time... and thus not destroyed... OR dead. For JAH is the God... of the LIVING.

The Most Holy One of Israel did not slay His own Son... but gave him over to US... who COULD have not slain him either, but did... whom He knew WOULD slay him. And that One offered himself willingly, once he (like Isaac) understood the "plan." He trusted that His Father would NOT forsake him and leave him bound in the world of the dead... but give him a way out.



This is TRUE! However, the poster does not understand that "destruction" PRECEDED Christ, the light. It... the darkness... or "Destruction" (Death)... was already THERE... when the LIGHT (Christ, the Light) was brought forth! The Light... and life... came OUT of the darkness/destruction. That's why Christ said he had not lost one... except the "SON... OF Destruction."



This is an error and the surrounding verses show this:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."

Who was/is that light? Christ himself told us, as did Lazarus, his dear friend, who also tells us:

"Through him (Christ) all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

"There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

"The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God."

And...

"When [Jesus] spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

Why the light of "life"? Because DEATH... is the "darkness."

And so while the dear poster is correct, that "There CANNOT be creation without first having destruction," he overlooks that TRUTH: that destruction, darkness, death EXISTED... BEFORE the creation. And before the Light. And so, before the Son.

Because the ABSENCE of LIFE... is DEATH. And so BEFORE Christ, the LIFE, was brought forth, there was DEATH. It isn't life first THEN death, but death... THEN life... as the dear poster alludes to.

Christ is the firstBORN... FROM Death. Both times. First, as a spirit being that came forth FROM within the darkness, he being the "light" that flashed forth IN that darkness... and for whom the darkness will one day be destroyed, but also as a spirit that came back from the world of the dead, which is RULED... by another spirit, the darkness, Death. Aka... Abaddon/Apollyon, the "king" of Sheol/Hades. Aka... "Destruction", the "Destroyer".

Both life... and death... exist in a womb, dear ones (remember the old "rabbit" test?). And Christ came forth from the womb of the Woman... in which is the womb... of Hagar, the world of the dead. The PURPOSE for him coming forth... is so that DEATH can be destroyed (Revelation 20:14)... NOT Life (John 14:6)!

The Most Holy One of Israel did not destroy His Son, the Life... in order to bring forth life. He brought forth His Son, the Life... and used that one to bring forth MORE life... with the ultimate goal of conquering... and DESTROYING... Death. HIS enemy... and that Son's.

Of course, no one has to take MY word for it. Any one can ask the Same One I did. Alternatively, one can look to what is written:

Christ was slain... once... by man, not God. His body, when used for God's purposes, including the creation but also to heal/resurrect, etc., was WEAKENED... but not destroyed. Rather, he emptied out his first vessel, the spirit body... took a SLAVE's "form"... by taking on a human vessel... and then returned to that one he had at FIRST, but with glory (power/energy) MUCH greater than what he had before he came here. Prior to, he had SOME power, and so SOME authority.

NOW... because he was WORTHY... ALL power... and authority have been given him. Because, he ALONE... has shown he can be trusted with it.

I hope this helps, and peace to you ALL!

A slave of Christ,

SA

NOW, he

AGuest, this Scripture refutes what you have to say:



If God hadn't yet sacrificed his Son, he had no business asking Abraham to do it (God first THEN Abraham). If the Lamb who was slain is ONLY Christ on the cross, then Abraham is greater than God (which is impossible). The crucifixion was revealed to all so that people would know what had already taken place. The Son died twice and was resurrected twice. The first resurrection was his birth through Mary.

In the beginning the Son didn't have a choice to be destroyed just as Isaac didn't. Him being born into flesh gave him the opportunity to CHOOSE to sacrifice himself or not. If he does he becomes the Eternal King and honors his Father's original choice. If he doesn't he hands his rulership over to the Devil. That's why he was tempted. The Devil wanted Christ to use his free will to DENY the entire arrangement.

-Sab

Christ is not JUST light, he is EVERYTHING including light. He is the raw material of the universe which provides the momentum of all creation (Romans 11:36) since the BEGINNING. When we eat wine and bread it IS his blood and flesh because he is EVERYTHING, including wine and bread.

-Sab

Dearest Sab (peace to you!), what you quote is TRUE: my Lord WAS chosen BEFORE the throwing down of the seed (founding of the world)... to SAVE that seed... which was ALSO chosen before the founding of the world... and so befor it was THROWN DOWN... in order to hide it from its enemies. What YOU are suggesting, however, is a scenario where "God," in essence, says, "I MUST sacrifice this One to bring LIFE into existence"... although He was able to BRING that One into existence... WITHOUT any "destruction" (as YOU suggest, ignoring the truth that the darkness - death/destruction - already existed). And although the seed already existed... even before the creation. Your position is that everything ELSE came into existence out OF the destruction OF that One, the Son.

Yet, you overlook that HE was brought into existence without ANY destruction. Yet, how can that BE? How can he, the LIFE... COME into existence, whether by birth or by creation... unless, as YOU state, something was destroyed? If life comes out of destruction, then HOW was he even IN existence... BEFORE the "destruction" (of him) that you say had to occur?

Per your... mmmmm... position, he comes first, then HE is destroyed so that everything ELSE can come to be. And you liken that sacrifice to the "almost" sacrifice of Isaac by HIS father, Abraham. YET, you deny the One who spoke to Abraham, who later identified Himself to Moses as "JaHVeH." So, in essence, you are saying the God that MOSES worshipped and followed... who was ALSO the God that CHRIST worshipped and follows, he often referring to Moses... was a false God. Yet, you do not deny Christ.

Now, JaHVeH HAS revealed Himself... to Moses, David, the Prophets... and more... and most importantly, to Christ... who has revealed Him to US, the BODY of Christ. Whether we call him "Jah eShua," "Jesus", "Joshua," "Yeshua"... or what have you... he said he is the One... that "comes in the name of 'God'". And, since HE refers to the Psalms... "God", for HIM... is JAH (veh) (Psalm 68:4).

What YOU are suggesting, however, is that even Christ didn't know Who is his Father was... that he, too, was fooled by "JaHVeH" into thinking that One was his Father, and not Elohim, his TRUE father. Yet, you do not deny "Christ" - you just deny his INTELLIGENCE.



Of COURSE he had business asking Abraham to do it. He is not answerable to Abraham, but vice verse. He would not have been a God of love to LET Abraham do it... and He DIDN'T. But JAH DID do it, literally sacrificed HIS Son... and FIRST.



Nonsense. Abraham made no sacrifice. Of himself... OR his son. Christ gave HIMSELF... and JAH gave His SON. Something Abraham never had to do.



Yet, the words are "what is yet TAKE place," not "what has already taken place." Not ONE prophecy mentioned what had already taken place - ALL spoke of what was to TAKE place.



Yet, he is said to have died ONCE. And no resurrection takes place THROUGH another, except Christ himself... and then, from the grave, not the womb of a woman. Were that the case, then Adham... who came through the womb of a woman, Hagar, was resurrected. You are confusing resurrection with birth. TRUE, some who are born "again" die first. But they are not reborn as the result of a resurrection - they are resurrected... so as to BE reborn. Along with those who NEVER die are reborn. And those who take part in the second resurrection are not reborn - they are simply awoken from sleep. THAT is what resurrection is: an awakening from the dead, but not necessarily to LIFE (which IS a rebirth).



Sigh. Isaac had a choice, dear one. He could have absolutely told Abraham "No." Just as Christ COULD have chosen HIS will over the Father's. If he had no CHOICE... then he didn't GIVE himself, luv. He was TAKEN - his life possible STOLEN... if it was AGAINST his will. Even more, his life was never his OWN. TO give.

My Lord always had a choice... and THAT is why his sacrifice was extraordinary. Because he COULD have chosen NOT to do so, indeed NOT to ever SERVE God. But LOVE... for His Father, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... FIRST (as Isaac had for Abraham)... and for those his FATHER loved second ("For GOD so loved the world")... have GAVE his life. BY choice.

Because his CHOICE... was for His FATHER'S will to be done... and NOT his own.



You overlook the situation, dear one. He also had the choice to come. When he realized that there was NO ONE ELSE who COULD be used... no other "ram"... he offered himself to come... willingly. Why? Because he was "fond of the sons of man." Why? Because JAH... SO loved the world. HE loved... those whom his FATHER loved. And I TOTALLY understand that. Because as I have often shared, MY love for others... is based on HIS love for others. I love HIM... and so I love those HE loves. Same with him: HE loves those whom the FATHER loves.

He wasn't just popped down here, awoken one day to go, "Oh, wait, hey, WHY am I here? Oh, to choose whether to sacrifice myself or not?" He did NOT know, when he came into existence, that he would have to give his life. But when the Father offered him... he did not beg off. No, he "emptied himself out and took a slave's form." NOT... "the Father emptied him out and MADE him take a slave's form."



If he DOES... he "makes a reply" on behalf of the Father to the one who is TAUNTING the Father. And as a result of such reply shows himself "worthy" to receive the kingdom.



The Adversary already HAD rulership of THIS world, dear Sab. Which is why he was called the RULER of this world BY Christ... and why he offered Christ the KINGDOMS of this world. But he would have never been HANDED the rulership. He may have fought (against Michael) and WON it... but it would have NEVER been given to him.



(Smile) He was never tempted, dear one. True, the Adversary TRIED to tempt him. Why? To prove his taunts: that SKIN (i.e., the "long garment" that Christ occupied at the time) in BEHALF of skin... and ALL a man has... he WILL give in behalf of his life. HE falsely accused Christ of being more concerned with his OWN life and flesh... than with those he was sent to save. That, for the sake and desires of that "long garment of skin", EVEN CHRIST... the SON... would curse God to His very face. That that flesh, like all other flesh... would chose its survival, comfort, and even its desire for power and riches... over the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies.

Praise JAH... Christ proved him wrong. What, though, about the rest of us? What of the desires of OUR flesh... including the desire for power... which had led some, many... to "trust in their OWN understanding", put their OWN egos first... even when it means denying the MOST Holy One of Israel... and perhaps EVEN His Christ?

So, what are we, you and I, to do, dear Sab? I did not know and so had to ask. And the word of MY Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah) to ME... is to let you publish your beliefs from this point on without comment from me... unless you counter as to something he has given me to share. Otherwise, to let you state your beliefs. Because neither he nor his Father, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, want any to love, listen to, or follow THEM... without CHOICE. And one doesn't have a choice when one is not permitted to hear all sides.

I cannot promise full silence - I will certainly try, but I am not sure what I might respond with if it is a lie against my God and Father, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH (VeH), or my Lord, His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, known to ME as JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). But I will call upon my Lord to "muzzle" me and let you have your say and do my best to work in line with that.

Because no one has to believe me... and I truly don't want any to. Rather, I want them to go HIM, Christ, and ask HIM, for themselves, as to whether what I share... or you... is true or false. And then put faith in HIM... and what they hear from HIM.

So, I wish you peace, dear Sab, truly!

A slave of Christ,

SA

Thank you all who have taken the time to explore this question!

I see that there are disagreements when it comes to the concept of the Trinity.
I also see Bible verses being quoted as proof and Bible verses being disputed
due to claims of mistranslation/mistransliteration.

The topic of the Trinity does tie in with the subject of this thread though. If the concept of the Trinity is false, would those who adhere to that belief be blaspheming against the Holy Spirit?
If the concept of the Trinity were true, then are those who don't agree blaspheming against the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit, God, and Jesus are one then to blaspheme against any of them would be to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

One proposed test of scriptural validity is to test it against love. To eternally damn a person with an unforgivable sin seems to go against love. That Jesus is love has been repeated many times yet even Jesus seems to take a hard line stance when it comes to blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Why is this?

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

The Word was never "brought into existence" (John 1:1).



He didn't let Abraham do it because the death of Issac would have accomplished nothing. He only needed to know that Abraham WOULD do what God had already done Himself (killed his only begotten). He proved himself to be worthy of starting the Line of the Messiah which ended in the revelation of the crucifixion and the salvation of mankind.



For all intents and purposes, Abraham DID sacrifice Isaac. It was real to him until the very last moment.



No he didn't. If Isaac had refused he would've been disobeying his superior. John 5 describes the relationship between father and son:



Isaac didn't have a choice, just as the Lamb who was slain did not, initially. When he came into the flesh he then had the choice to honor the Father or not. He could disobey and rule temporarily with the Devil or he chose to honor the arrangement set in place by the Father.

This has been an interesting discussion, AGuest. I am heading to bed for the night.

-Sab

No, dear Pup (peace to you!). Whichever one is wrong, it is merely the result of ignorance due to being misled, not intentional opposition. Remember, false prophets and false christs arise to misled, if possible, EVEN the chosen ones. So... even (some of) the chosen ones will be misled. For a time, at least. The MOST Holy One of Israel is merciful, though. And then, so is His Son, the HOLY One of Israel... and Holy Spirit. That One gives his sheep their food "at the PROPER time." So, perhaps one is currently being (mis)led by "hired men (in charge)." At the time appointed by the Father, such one will have their training finished by HIM... THROUGH His Son, the Holy Spirit.



Yes, if they were truly one "God," yes. But let me ask you: did not the "holy spirit" come down upon Christ? And was that spirit not "upon" him so that he COULD "give sight to the blind," etc.? And was it not by means of that same spirit that Christ expelled demons? Yet, did not some "blaspheme" against that spirit when they said it was "by means of Beelzebub" that Christ did so? So, were they NOT blaspheming the very spirit... HOLY spirit... by means of which Christ expelled demons?

Yet, Christ forgave them... and stated it as if they were blaspheming HIM. Why? Is it possible so that certain ones of Israel were NOT condemned to eternal destruction as a result of NOT being able to be forgiven? But why would THAT be? Maybe because, as Paul wrote... "ALL Israel WILL be saved"? How would those who blasphemed BE saved if blasphemy against the HOLY SPIRIT was unforgivable? Did Christ not ASK them, "WHO... will save YOU... from Gehenna/Hell?" Why, though, would those even NEED to be saved from Gehenna/Hell... had they NOT blasphemed... against the Holy Spirit??

Christ... TOOK THEIR SINS... dear one. Just as he took the sins of those afflicted in the flesh, he ALSO took the sins of those... afflicted in SPIRIT. Took them ALL... to the GRAVE. So, BEFORE his death... one COULD sin "against" HIM. After that... there was no other savior. No one was going to come AGAIN... and "take away the sins" of the world, whether sins manifested in the FLESH... or sins manifested by the SPIRIT.



I am not sure by whom, dear one, but not my me nor most here. Because [Jesus] isn't love; GOD... is love. And [Jesus] isn't God (which is the point some of us have made). He MANIFESTS love... because he is the IMAGE of the Father, Who IS love, dear one. Nor are WE love, dear one, yet WE... can manifest love. Indeed, if we are to be LIKE Christ, we must manifest it... to the greatest extent we can... and then beyond that. Surpassingly.

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

Pup, the principle that one cannot commit major sin by accident holds good. Actually to sin requires that a person has full understanding, knows what the truth is, and thus what the will of God is, and freely chooses to go against it. As has been said above, God is loving and reasonable. It stands to reason therefore that He would not condemn a person who goes against something he didn't know was so.

A person who simply doesn't understand the nature of God, Father and Son united in the loving fellowship of the Holy Spirit, therefore cannot be deemed guilty of blasphemy against a Holy Spirit he doesn't realise exists.

Culpability always requires full understanding.

AGuest and Chariko both brought up ignorance and understanding in regard to sinning.
In the past, during the time Jesus walked the earth, can it be argued that although those who were opposed to him saw and heard him, that due to their upbringing were ignorant and did not have full understanding of him?

Jesus came and turned the construct upside down. The people that saw him as a threat to their beliefs were only reacting based upon their years of misinformation(assuming they were false)? The Bible passages quoted above that referenced blasphemy against the spirit was Jesus' answer to those who say his power and gifts were born of Beelzebub. Those accusers were likely those who had faith in the old ways and saw this newcomer as trouble maker. They were defending what they believed. Do they have the luxury of calling ignorance and misunderstanding as a get out of jail free card?

God is love and merciful, yet his son Jesus did make a black and white line drawn in the sand when it comes to blasphemy against the Boly Spirit. Did Jesus overrule his Father? Was it God or the Holy Spirit that came down among the Egyptions and killed all the first born?

In a way the Trinity resembles Vishnu, Shiva, and Ganesh

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Interesting, Pup. The short answer is that I don't know. Probably the only person who knows would be God.

But it could very well be so.

Lots to respond to here (peace to you, all!), but your question requires the least amount of time so I will start with you, dear HP (good morning and peace to you!):



I don't think that that's quite accurate. We both did so as to "major" sin. For me, the only major sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit/holy spirit, which is what I responded as to - all other sin is equal... because every other sin can be forgiven (and was forgiven by Christ, from the evil-doer on the pole next to him... whose sin resulted in him being put to death, to the woman caught in the act of adultery, to drunkards who'd subjected themselves to demons... to Israel, who had broken the Law in every way... to the world, among which every sin has been committed).

The MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, doesn't rank sin, dear one. For Him sin... is sin. Error. And since all other sins, including things like adultery, can be forgiven, even sin against Christ when he was in the flesh, they are not "major."



My Lord is recorded to have said something very interesting to those who blasphemed:

"Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?"

Because of their blasphemy against holy spirit, these had only condemnation to look forward to. How could they escape? As if their blasphemy wasn't enough, he THEN told them:

"Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation."

So, on TOP of their blasphemy was the blood of the righteous whose deaths THEY were responsible for. And YET... Paul reminded the Romans, both Israel AND the Gentiles... and us... that ALL Israel... WILL be saved:

"For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”



YES! Born of the SPIRIT of Beelzebub, and NOT the spirit... HOLY spirit... of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies! But it wasn't due to ignorance that these said such: why in the world would the ENEMY of Israel and mankind use his spirit to do GOOD?? Heal, feed, resurrect, cast OUT demons?! He would have been dividing his own 'house', yes? So the GOOD... SHOULD have told these that Beelzebub ("Lord of the EVIL flying things") was NOT involved. They could SEE the good... and so they had no excuse. As Christ said, because they SAID they DID see... their sin remained.

And will... until the full number of the nations have been brought in, at which time the REST of Israel (those beyond the 144,000 taken from among the sons of Israel) will be saved. Because THEN, JAH will take away THEIR sins.



They were and did. NOT because they saw him as a threat against TRUTH... but as a threat against their TRADITIONS and CUSTOMS... which they used to mislead God's sheep... and their HYPOCRISY in doing so, calling upon the people to carry burdens (keep to the Law!) that THEY couldn't carry (sinning behing the scenes, behind closed doors, in the dark, etc.).



They don't. While they THINK they do (as most people think they do)... it is not ignorance that saves these... or saves anyone. IF one is saved... ANYONE... it is due to MERCY - the UNdeserved kindness... of God.



No, dear one. Love never fails... and so he TOLD them what the line was. WARNED them. The assumption is that God can break His rules, ALL of them. He cannot... without jeopardizing others. If He was to overstep certain ones of HIS Laws... ONE might be saved... while thousands, if not more, others... are lost. LOVE won't ALLOW Him to break ALL rules.

Now, I don't know if you're a parent or not, but any parent with more than one child should be able to understand this. Let's say the house rules are you can't bring known pedophiles in for sleepovers. NOT that you have anything against the pedo himself/herself... you may even feel pity for him/her, even think they are more ill than evil. But because of the SAFETY you owe to the OTHER children in the household you have to stick to the rule. At least until the children are no longer children. But you readily forgive the perp for his/her crimes, leaving his/her judgment to God. What about shelter for him/her, though? Well, maybe even pay for a room for him/her until they get on their feet. But to bring them into your own home MIGHT not be the best course. So, although you know you can show love by bringing such a stranger into your home, you can also be risking the lives of everyone else. In such a case, the love of the MANY has to outweigh the "love" of the one. And THAT one shouldn't take offense - he/she knows they can't be trusted around small children, so THEIR love should say, "You're right, I can't sleep over... and thank YOU for not putting me in a position where I MIGHT sin again!"



It was not JAH OR the Holy Spirit (Christ), OR His holy spirit, dear one. It was the Destroyer. The Darkness... Death. Known by name as Abbadon (Greek, Apollyon). The spirit who is king over the world of the dead. The MOST Holy One of Israel, who has ALL authority (which authority He has since conferred upon His Son)... over everything in the spirit realm AND on earth... including Death... allowed that one to come and take the SPIRIT (breath) of Egypt's firstborns.

That one WANTS... ALL of our spirits, however. Because of the combined POWER/ENERGY such will give him. It is this that misleads him to believe HE will conquer... and become king. Death, as king... NOT Life (Christ). But he will not prevail. Because HIS son... the one called "Satan" and "Devil"... whose name is Beli'Jah'El... has not been ABLE to conquer the Life! Rather, JAH's Son... the LIFE... has conquered DEATH... and HIS son!

Our Adversary, "Satan", is the SON of the Destroyer - the SON of "Destruction." NOT Judas. And he is the ONLY one that my Lord lost. We don't know if Judas was lost, because he repented (his regret caused him to hang himself)... and JAH is merciful. We also know who Judas was and the Apostles knew him and saw him, etc. The son of Destruction, however, had NOT been revealed to them. So, Judas could NOT have been that one.



There are many cultures that boast and worship triune gods, dear one. Particularly many ancient cultures, some still doing so today. Abraham was called OUT of that kind of culture (he came from the East!). And Christ came to bear witness to US (Israel and those who go with her)... the TRUTH about that particular lie. From the start, he glorified the Father alone. When witnesses SAW God's holy spirit coming down upon him, he didn't say, "Oh, and THAT (one/stuff, whatever) is equal to me/the Father and should be glorified, too!" No, he said that ONLY the Father is good (not even putting himself on the same level), that ONLY the Father is to be worshipped and rendered sacred service (not himself)... and that ALL he knew he learned... from the Father.

And WE are to learn... from HIM... which we do by means of listening to his VOICE... which speaks to us, either audibly or through our BLOOD by means of GOD's blood, holy spirit, which we RECEIVE into ourselves when we RECEIVE him. We are in UNION with him... by means of GOD's blood, breath, and semen... which is what BRINGS on in true union with another... beyond or in addition to ADOPTION... so as to be a TRUE wife... or a brother.

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

Au contrare, dear one (peace to you!), but since John 1:1 is such a controversial verse to transliterate, I will offer the following:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light."

God "said" let the light come to BE and the light came to BE... because the light was NOT before that, before God "said"... breathed. The DARKNESS existed, though.

That light... is Christ... who came FORTH... FROM the Father.

"The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world."

“I am the light of the world."

He came forth from the Father... as a child comes forth from the womb. He was BORN from the "womb" of the "Woman"... who is IN the Father:

"The Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God. I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”

Which brings me to what I need to share with you. I tossed and turned over your comment that my Lord was destroyed (well, died, because the destroyed aren't resurrected) and then "resurrected" by means of his birth through Mary. I could actually see what you meant; however, it "bothered" me because I could not hear from my Lord that it was the TRUTH. And so, I asked. And here is what I received from HIM:

"Your heart is troubled over what you have read, today?" to which I responded that, yes, it was. He then said:

"In order for me to have been resurrected through the woman, Miryam, I would have had to have been dead, yes?" to which I responded, "Yes, Lord."

"And what you have heard is that I was dead UNTIL I was resurrected through her womb, yes?" to which I responded, "Yes, Lord."

He then asked me: "But if I was dead, child, even destroyed... how it is that David could hear me? How could Daniel see and speak with me? How could Abel and others, including Moses, have known me and chosen me over unrighteousness and the things of YOUR world? Did I not give David the Psalms? Did Solomon not write that MY voice was calling to the sons of mankind? How can I have called if I were dead or even destroyed? The dead DO NOT SPEAK, child, nor are they conscious of anything that occurs in YOUR world or even theirs. Yet, I appeared to the Prophets and spoke to them so that they would speak to Israel the word I gave them that I received from my Father. How can this be if I was dead or even destroyed?"

To which I responded, "None of it could be, dear Lord, if what this man is saying is true."

He said: "You must choose, child, what to believe and who to believe. I cannot make you. But I say to you that I was not dead OR destroyed. When the Father used me to bring forth the creation, my (spirit) body was greatly weakened - a great amount of power went out of me in order to bring forth life. It is the same as when I was in the flesh and power went out of me to give life to another. As with my flesh, I did not die because of the loss of power, but I was greatly weakened. My flesh did not die because of the loss of power; it was put to death. In my weakened state as a spirit I was able to come and be WITH mankind in the flesh. Before that, I could only come in the spirit. Because the glory of my spirit would not have been contained in a vessel of flesh. When I returned to the Father I was given the glory I had before, yes, but even more so. And so, again, I am only able to come in the spirit. The little power I still possessed when I came to be among mankind in the flesh allowed me to only give a bit of life to those who asked for it. Such life was temporary because the power was not complete. And so Death still had a hold on them. NOW, I can give ETERNAL life, as the FATHER could before I received His glory, such that even Death cannot hold it. Do you understand what I am saying to you?"

To which I responded... "YES, Lord!!"

So, in light of that conversation, dear Sab, I must continue to reject your assertions. Of course, I do not expect you or anyone to believe me as to the discussion and/or my Lord's words. Each one is absolutely free to go and ask for themselves. Indeed, that is what each one SHOULD do... rather than listen to me, who is no better or worthier than any other. Please... DO!



I agree with you that He only needed to know that Abraham WOULD do it, yes. But that's not a special revelation - it is a common understanding. But I think you have your sequences backward as to who had to prove what first. Even so, Abraham didn't start the line of Messiah, dear one. After the death of Abel... that designation went to Seth. Abraham showed he was worthy of carrying ON that line.



True, although... (SA looks around for another's "THAT's a JW teaching" comment...).



Which he COULD have done! Adham did... Cain did... as did many others. ALL had a CHOICE: to obey or disobey. As do we.



Yes, and he was the ONLY One who could fulfill this! ALL have sinned... including Isaac, dear one, at some point. Even Abraham, by some means. If Isaac could NOT have refused... could NOT have disobeyed his superior... Isaac could NEVER have sinned in ANY way. C'mon, dear Sab... THINK!



So, he didn't have a choice... but then he had a choice?? Spirit beings don't have a choice, only flesh does?? Then how can spirit beings sin (think before you respond, because there are the angels "that sinned"). Indeed, isn't it the truth that WE have LESS choice than that... BECAUSE of the "desires" of our flesh, the vessel that is the long garment of skin given to Adham... which we INHERIT... NOT choose????



Yes! CHOOSE to disobey, because disobedience IS a choice! But that choice existed even before he came here, dear one. He could have refused BEFORE then... and ruled (temporarily, yes) with Death... because of succumbing to the "temporary enjoyment of sin." Instead, he CHOSE to honor the arrangement of the Father... because he LOVED the Father. NOT because there was some "rule" that said he COULDN'T disobey the Father. Out of his LOVE for the Father... he extended such to the WORLD... whom the FATHER loved.

JAH doesn't want us to do ANYTHING because He MAKES us, dear one... and certainly not His Son. He wants ALL to CHOOSE to do His will. But even JAH didn't want what occurred to occur. HE gave His Son out of love. Because the "value" of that Son's LIFE... the POWER/ENERGY... was the ONLY thing that could COMPENSATE... for the lives He wanted DEATH to give up... give BACK! Adham sold ALL of mankind to death, in exchange for the ability to know death... and yet come back FROM death. Know "bad"... and live. God LOVED the world that Adham so sold SO much... that He was willing to PAY Death's wage: a life... for a life. But NONE of our lives could compensate - they don't have sufficient VALUE. Death had to be given lives that would compensate for every life HE (Death) had to give up. And life... for a life.

And so JAH gave His only-begotten Son (by the SPIRIT realm, Sarah/Jerusalem Above)... because the power/energy... VALUE... of that Son's life... HIS power/energy... was MORE than adequate to compensation for ALL other life: human, spirit, animal, plant... what have you. Because THAT life is what was used to CREATE all other life. All OTHER life came OUT of him.

THIS time, though, Death truly thought it would be the "end" of that Life... that ALL of its power... and glory... would be HIS. That Life's BLOOD... lifeforce/spirit/power/energy... would come to be in HIM... and so HE would have ALL power, even over God.

BUT... he, Death... was fooled. Because that Son came... with the KEYS to Sheol/Hades, given him by the FATHER... and so was able to bring himself BACK... from Death's world. And when he CAME back... he was given BACK his power/energy, even more abundantly. So that, as God had conferred upon him to do... HE could "release" ANYONE... HE wished to... ALSO from Death.

Folks get so caught up in Adham's "original sin." Original sin wasn't even the issue. Adham's sin was what ALLOWED him to do what he did: sell all of mankind to DEATH... in exchange for a (bogus) promise of life after having "known" death. THAT was the issue... and THAT is why Christ was sent (although with telling the truth about God): to pay the price... ransom... that Death demanded for the lives of the WORLD... that God wants BACK.



Indeed, it has... and a very civil one, thank you! I hope you got a good night's rest. As I shared, my was a bit fitful, and very "chatty" - LOLOLOL!

One thought: perhaps you can allow yourself to try and "see" God less through movies and TV shows... and more through Christ? I think that if you did that, your vision would become SO much clearer. Quicker.

Again, peace to you, dear Sab - truly!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA