xjwsforChrist

My wife knows I have "doubts" about WTS. I haven't voiced my thoughts to a high degree of specificity as I can tell she wants no part of it. And anyone who knows me here knows she and I have been having a rocky marriage for a few years now. That plays into it. Well, in the course of discussion today, she expressed that she is okay with having spiritual conversations, so long as they are uplifting and encouraging, not negative. To her, "negative" means saying anything that goes contrary to what WTS says or does.

She then mentioned how I am not keeping pace with the organization and that she has no problem whatsoever with the latest doctrinal changes (that the GB alone is the FDS, and a whole bunch of other major changes). I mentioned to her that there is a double standard set by the organization in that the GB can question and significantly change doctrine that's been in place for decades and it's considered okay, but if I question it, it's considered apostasy.

She responded: 'The Governing Body is God's channel and appointed by holy spirit. You are not. Your problem is one of pride.'

I could have responded to this easily, stating that Christ said that everyone asking shall receive and that the GB does not have a monopoly on holy spirit, but I could tell that it would not go over well.

She told me that I should either not be a JW anymore or just shut up about my doubts. Not being a JW is fine by me, but that will most definitely end the marriage (not to mention cut me off from family and friends). She said as much a few weeks back.

This is my story today. Really bummed out about all this. I feel that since I know TTATT, as it's called, I'm in between a rock and a hard place with no way out without doing some serious damage along the way. *sigh*

Rather than pride... maybe your 'problem' is that you do not like to give to men, the glory and love that belongs to the Son, and in so doing, are giving that love and glory to God?

(I assume those would be fighting words to your wife, mind you, lol...)

From what she said:

The channel of God is the same as saying the word of God. Both are communication. Calling the GB the channel of God is the same as calling them the Word of God, and putting them in His seat, with His authority.


But Christ is God's channel (Word), and appointed by God, Himself.

I know that you know that already. I am just repeating what Christ has taught me.


I am sorry that things are hard with your wife. I also don't know your situation, if you are fading, or just trying to help her out, or whatever. Also i was not a jw, and so have not had this problem, so I prefer to leave others to their personal advice from experience on having a jw spouse, when you are trying to leave or having doubts.

If you are going to talk to your wife about faith, then talk about Christ. If your wife talks about the GB, say something about Christ. It does not have to be a whole speech, or even an argument. It doesn't have to be a lot that you talk. Just some things here and there as you are led to speak them, perhaps things that the Spirit reminds you of (verses, scriptures, etc)

Ask also for help from Christ, that He will help you with the words and the love, and that she might hear Him also. He does things, and people seek and then hear Him, that i would never have thought possible. So I am learning to trust Him with things like this.


Because on our part, it is pretty hard to get someone to see something that they do not want to see. Especially when they are not yet ready TO see... or hear.


And hugs too, because I know how hard it can be to be opposed on matters of faith, from your spouse.


Peace and love to you, and to your loved ones,

tammy

Perhaps you can take your dilemma to Christ, dear LQ (peace to you, this day and every day!)... and ask HIM to maybe "soften" your dear wife's heart a bit? Pray FOR her, rather than consider her simply as an "enemy" (well, she you, but our dear Lord did say a man's enemies would be members of his own household, yes?). Remember, at one time you believed what and as your dear wife now does. Would you have been "ready" if SHE were the first to see their hypocrisy?

Perhaps you and she can reach a compromise: you won't take issue with her for BEING a JW... and she won't take issue with you for not? Doesn't sound like this is feasible as to keeping the marriage intact, but one never knows. What you should NOT do is treat her less kindly, less mildly, less loving. In fact, if you are joined to Christ... or seeking that union... you should become MORE kind, MORE mild, MORE loving, MORE patient, peaceful, etc., yes? "Yes, dear" goes a long way with some wives.

Maybe if you "cover" your "transgression" (in HER eyes) WITH love... she will continue to "dwell" with you and not shake up your household. So, you have a wife that doesn't believe as you do. Not "grounds", dear one. SHE is the "unbelieving" mate, yes? So, as long as she is "agreeable" to dwelling with you...

But you don't have to... and shouldn't... compromise YOUR faith and integrity. Rather, take the lesser road and try to "win" her... "without a word." No arguing, no exposing the WTBTS if she's not ready to receive that. Rather, try to LIVE your faith... and the truth... in union WITH the truth... and let her SEE what he is doing to "recreate" YOU.

If you can.

I hope you can, for both of your dear sakes... and any children you might have...

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

Just as an fyi, i took similar advice from Shelby with my husband (atheist), and we don't argue over God or faith anymore, and I let him initiate all the conversations, and i let him end them when he does not want to hear anymore. I also prayed for his heart to be softened... exactly that.


Peace to you both,
tammy

Aguest said...
But you don't have to... and shouldn't... compromise YOUR faith and integrity. Rather, take the lesser road and try to "win" her... "without a word." No arguing, no exposing the WTBTS if she's not ready to receive that. Rather, try to LIVE your faith... and the truth... in union WITH the truth... and let her SEE what he is doing to "recreate" YOU.



Hello LQ...

There are great words of advice here from both Shelby and Tammy.
This thought from Shelby reminds me of something I read not long ago and can be used with this quote.
It said, " Sometimes, WE may BE the only CHRIST that people may SEE!"

Knowing and understanding that we were all there like your wife before, until she " wants to see", the only thing that we can do ( which is very powerful) is prayer for her heart to be softened and...

Be the CHRIST you want her to see! As mentioned " living your faith" along with prayer, as long as she is agreeable, your marriage can be blessed.

Thank you for sharing how you were feeling today.

Love and blessings to you and your family
Justmom

Thank you ALL! I feel better now (still bummed out, but better).


Yes, I've come to realize this recently. It's hard, considering our past. I will keep trying...


Yes, it would seem this would be a better approach in this situation.


Yes, I agree.



Heh... I've been so wrapped up in my own quandaries as of late that I must admit that I haven't been praying for others like I should. Good reminders.

Thanks, everyone!
-LQ

LQ, sorry for what you're going through. I think that's some pretty great advice up there.

LOLOLOL! I was distracted when I "read" through dear tec's post (peace to you, luv!)... and so missed some stuff and ended up pretty much reiterating what she stated. Truly didn't mean to be redundant... but perhaps you can consider us "two witnesses" as to this matter, dear LQ (peace to you and your household, dear one!). Well, three... no, four witnesses (LOLOL!)... if we count dear 'Mom and dear Ataloa (peace to you both!). But I see you got the point! LOLOLOL!

Peace to you ALL!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

Hope things get 'easier' with your wife LQ. Good advice here, after all 'love covers a multitude of sins' - bit like gravy I used to think! - and it's very hard for wives to resist.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Gravy, huh? I used to think 'baggy clothes'.

Lol... cute ; )


Glad you got some comfort from all of that, Leaving.


Peace,
tammy

OH NO, I spent 15 minutes typing something out for LQ and I went to send it and it went away, first time for me, so upsetting.

LQ I feel so much for you and understand completely what you are going through as I was a JW since I was 3 years old. I left 2 times and suffered the loss of family and friends. Just know you are not alone and that there are so many that are going or have gone through this too so they can comfort you and offer support. I hope for you that your wife's heart softens but all you can do is be kind and loving, there is no other defence.

I left at a time when there was NO support, I thought I was the only one that had left the WT org and so second guessed myself after 10 years away with lots of nightmares and shunning. I went back in for another 7 years, saw that it still was not the truth and left again, faded that time. There still was no internet or support that I knew of and again I thought I was a rebel and the only one and suffered with no one to talk to about it. I shoved it all to the back of my mind but it festered. Then 5 years ago I discovered exjws online and almost instantly all my fears and grief were relieved. So you do have the support system and that is one blessing even though it does not take away the pain or reality of this tearing apart your family and heart.

Hello LQ,

Sorry to hear that things aren't so good at the moment. Things will get better, we just have to ride the waves with the help of friends.

There are two ways to help a spouse, and the direction taken depends on the spouse that is 'in' still. You can either lay it all out and say this is what I believe. Or you can take the softly softly approach. Don't talk about it for a while. Let her bring it up. When you do speak about it, do it by way of questions and not statements. Questions will get the internal cogs working whereas statements can make the defence shields go up.

One thing Mrs Smith said to me after she woke up was that her biggest fear from hearing me talk about how there was a lot I didn't agree with was that we would end up breaking up. She said the thing that comforted and helped her the most was when I told her that it was my beliefs that had changed, not my feelings for her.

When she knew that I was always going to be there no matter what, she chilled enough to look into things to try and correct and realign me. By doing that, she came across enough evidence to wake her up. The thing that really got her was the flip flops on organ transplants. I got her started, not by making a statement "The GB flip flops on organ transplants show that the new light theory is rubbish." But rather, I said innocently one day "Did you know that the WT used to say that having a transplant was the same as cannabilism?"

Everything I said to her was based around the WT publications, and not from any non JW source. When she saw the contradictions and realised the impacts this would have on people faithfully trying to keep up, the lights went on.

It can be a long road, but totally worth it.

Keep us up to date

_________________
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter don’t mind.” - Dr Seuss

GREAT advice, dear WS (peace to you!)!!!! Have you considered writing a paper/book about it? No, seriously. I have heard/read all manner of how to "approach" such an issue and your tack seems one of the most "loving" I have come across. It's nice to have something posted here (and perhaps elsewhere) to help others, but I am sure there are many who are still afraid to even search the web... and even so, how much "stuff" must they go through to find it?

You should consider it, really. Although, I am sure that the WTBTS will get their paws on a copy so as to prepare their usual "canned" responses ("If your no-longer-believing spouse says that it's their beliefs that have changed, but not their love for you, you can counter with... 'Oh no, you can't have it both ways! Either you believe what I believe... and I believe the WTBTS... and if you disagree with me you're disagreeing with them... and if you disagree with them, you're disagreeing with God and so you CAN'T love me, because you don't love THEM... and so you don't love GOD!")

Yep, can see THAT "reasoning"... and, sadly, a whole lot of people who just can't bring themselves to say they were wrong... buying it.

No, consider writing it anyway, dear one!

Peace to you and your household!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

Well you sure know how to make a guy blush don't you?

I can only speak from experience, and mine so far has taught me that asking a well timed and thought out question can get someone's mind going much more effectively than an out and out statement. Sometimes when someone hears themself giving an answer, they end up hearing what they are really saying. Then the gears get grinding.

Pride will stop the thought process for a long time. Eventually though, I think some people realise that they are answering in a certain way just to defend their initial stance, and not because they still believe it.

LQ how are things going?

_________________
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter don’t mind.” - Dr Seuss