xjwsforChrist

HAGGELOS SAID

Chariklo: You stated a number of things to which several responded quite accurately and succinctly. However, I too wish to respond to a couple of things, if you will permit.

You stated: “[T]he whole concept of being anointed feels extraordinary. Elitist.”

While this word you use often contains within its utterance a negative and derogatory understanding, it may not always be so. A few of the synonyms for “Elitist” is: “privileged class,” “ruling class,” “upper class,” etc. Are not true Christians a “privileged class,” chosen from out of the world? Are not true Christians to be a “ruling class,” chosen from out of the world? Do not true Christians have an ‘upward calling,’ from out of this world? “Elitist” is not necessarily a bad or inaccurate term.

You stated: “There isn't a group who are anointed and a majority who are not. Christ died to save us all. That's the whole message of Easter.”

I think you are mistaken here. In fact and in truth, “[t]here is a group who are anointed [true Christians] and a majority who are not” (the World). You are correct that “Christ died to save us all.” It’s just that some respond to the call while others do not. But even then, Christ saves many many more in addition to those who respond to His call.

You stated that “There isn't a special group.”

Chariklo, I’m not so sure you correct here. Jah, the Most Holy One of Israel, did in fact state that His choice of Israel as His Nation, as His People are a “people for ‘special’ possession. And one of the gospel writers takes that utterance and applied it to true Christians when he wrote that true Christians are a “holy nation and a people for special possession.” In biblical parlance, true Christians are a “special” people.

You wrote: “Christ calls us all. He is here for everyone, every single person.”

This is true.

You then wrote: “We all belong to Him.”

This is not quite accurate. True Christians “belong” to the Christ. Some people (perhaps a majority) on Planet Earth belong to the Adversary. Yet, Christ does call those who belong to the Adversary to come and belong to Him. Some, thankfully, respond to Christ’s call. The letter to the Ephesians states that if we do not belong to the Christ, then we are, in fact, “without God.”

Now, while true Christians are a special group, an elitist group, if you will, this does not mean that we carry within us an arrogant or pompous thinking that we are such. We strive for possession of the fruit of God’s spirit, NOT the arrogant and pompous thinking that so permeates the ‘special’ or ‘elite’ of those belonging to the World.

The biblical and spiritual truth is that true Christians are a special and elite group of people. Jah Himself so declares it.

TEC SAID


Understood.

I think I might have suspected that, but was not sure.

Our Lord reminds me to share the account of Cornelius and how the holy spirit was poured out among the Gentiles with him, while Peter witnessed to them. It was not a ritual. No one was expecting it. Christ first called them, then He CHOSE them... by giving/baptizing/anointing them with the spirit.

Also 1John 2:26-27

I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit - just as it has taught you, remain in him.





That so sucks, Char. I have started copying, so that if the server has timed out during my response, I don't lost the whole thing. Especially something long... I find that I get logged out because I spent so much time writing. I have saved two posts in the past week, by copying them first, before hitting submit


Peace to you,
tammy

AGUEST SAID

Shelby, the term Christian means follower of Christ.

(Smile)... I have to disagree, dear one (peace!). That term is "disciple." One who follows/is trained by another:

disciple (n.)
Old English discipul (fem. discipula), Biblical borrowing from Latin discipulus "pupil, student, follower," said to be from discere "to learn" [OED, Watkins], from a reduplicated form of PIE root *dek- "to take, accept" (see decent).

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?ter ... in_frame=0

The word "christian" comes from the word "christ"... or Greek "kristos" which means "anointed" or "chosen" one:

Christian (n., adj.)
16c., forms replacing earlier Christen, from Old English cristen (noun and adjective), from a West Germanic borrowing of Church Latin christianus, from Ecclesiastical Greek christianos, from Christos (see Christ). First used in Antioch, according to Acts xi:25-26.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?all ... hmode=none

Christ (n.)
title given to [Jesus] of Nazareth, Old English crist (by 830, perhaps 675), from Latin Christus, from Greek khristos "the anointed" (translation of Hebrew mashiah; see messiah), noun use of verbal adjective of khriein "to rub, anoint" (see chrism). The Latin term drove out Old English Hæland "healer, savior," as the preferred descriptive term for [Jesus].

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?ter ... in_frame=0

chrism (n.)
"oil mingled with balm," Old English chrisma, from Church Latin chrisma, from Greek khrisma "an unguent, anointing, unction," from khriein "to anoint," from PIE root *ghrei- "to rub" (cf. Lithuanian griejù "to skim the cream off").

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?ter ... in_frame=0

It is why our dear Lord is CALLED "Christ" (i.e., Chosen/Anointed One): it is the Greek translation from the Hebrew "mashiah" (Eng. "messiah")... both of which are inaccurate. He is the Chosen One... of JAH... and thus, the Mischa JAH. Which, when pronounced, SOUNDS like "mashiah":

Messiah = meh sy yuh

Mashiah = maa shy Jah

MischaJah = mee sha Jah

Unfortunately, language "evolves" due to/based on man's understanding, needs, and desires... as well as his MISunderstandings, which is the case here. But Who my Lord is has NOT changed, regardless of man's tongue(s). He is Jah eShua (JAH Saves-is Salvation/Salvation of JAH)... the MischaJAH (Chosen One of JAH).

I TOTALLY understand that we might not see eye to eye on this, but that's totally okay. No worries at all. But it is the truth, dear one.

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

CHARIKLO SAID

That's odd. People have mentioned before that they get logged out.

I've never been logged out. And I never have to log in. It remembers me. I think I set it like that in my Profile.

Haggelos, thank you for taking the trouble to explain things as you see them. I do understand.

I just see things really differently. I certainly, very very definitely, do not see Christians as destined to be a ruling class. Not at all. Not in any way. That, like so many things that people say, is a concept almost entirely exclusive to Jehovah's Witnesses. I had never heard of such a thing before associating with the JW's. perhaps it is there in the teachings of other extreme sects. I wouldn't know about that. I am not familiar with them.

Did Christ not make it very very clear that he saw himself as a servant. He is the suffering servant of Isaiah. Surely, that message is inherent in Christ washing the feet of the disciples?

Even the Pope is known as the servant of the servants.

I think those who were JW's for any length of time simply don't realise how unusual so many JW beliefs and terminology are. For instance, you say "Are not true Christians a "privileged class"?" My answer is not only, no, they are definitely not, but ALSO, only JW's talk about "true Christians". Other people do not use that term, and WOULD not use that term, because as well as being untrue it's false teaching. In fact, most non-JW's don't believe that JW's are actually Christians at all, because they don't acknowledge that Jesus is God. One Person of the Holy Trinity.

The WT caricatures the Trinity as a three-headed god, in fact in the KH I attended, they even called God a "three-headed monster", which I found deeply offensive, and I can only think that some of the hypnotism was taking some slight effect, because I should have got up and walked out.

I know that many on this site do not believe in the Trinity. I do, though, very much so, and yet I believe we still have much in common.

AGUEST SAID



The Apostles and early disciples not only believed it, but taught it, dear Char (again, peace to you!). It was the basis for their hope, to be a part of the FIRST resurrection - co-rulership with Christ in his kingdom. That was the purpose of the covenant "for a kingdom." It's why John saw 144,000 from among the sons of Israel, as well as a great crowd of people from EVERY nation, tribe, and tongue... come to life... and rule WITH Christ, as kings and priests for "one thousand" years.

If WE are wrong in this, so were the Apostles, including Peter (on which the RCC is "built"), the disciples... and Paul.



This is not a sectarian teaching, dear one. It is the PROMISE that was held out: "for a kingdom."



YES, YES, YES!!! That is the PURPOSE of his ruling NOW: to "subdue" those who will rule with him... and teach them PEACE! Because HIS is a RIGHTEOUS rulership. JAH is not a God of exaction, but a God of SERVICE. And so those to whom He gives His kingdom must prove themselves "like" Him! That proof started with His Son, Christ, the One HE appointed as King. Rather than keep that privilege to HIMSELF, though, that Son... that wonderful, kind, and LOVING SON... CHOSE... to SHARE his kingdom... with his BROTHERS... rather than rule alone!

But who ARE his brothers? "Those that do the will of my Father are my brothers." How do such ones KNOW that will, though, since THEY are not sons from the start? They are TAUGHT... by the One given to teach them: Christ himself.

And he has been teaching, by means of God's spirit that is IN him... HOLY SPIRIT... which he started pouring out upon those he CHOSE... from the moment he received his inheritance. From that time on, he has been "building" his Father's "house"... pillar by pillar... stone by stone... of PEOPLE... chosen... by HIM... to be LIVING stones in the "temple" of God.

Again, I understand that we have very different understandings on these things, so I take no issue if you are unable to receive what I've shared here. But it is the truth and I CAN show you (scripturally) if you need me to. I would offer, however, that if you just go to Christ himself, HE will reveal the truth of things to you... by means of the spirit given ME... if you ask for it.

I hope this helps!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

CHARIKLO SAID

Yes, Shelby, I am totally in accord with that etymology of chrism. Hence the oil of chrism, which I was about to say I mentioned earlier when I realised that that was in the post that never made it through the database hiatus!

In that post I too had mentioned the oil of chrism and also the oil of catechumens. I delineated several different occasions of anointing with oil, widely in use throughout Christendom and even beyond. I reminded you all that I myself had been anointed on the occasion of confirmation and also when very sick, as have members of my family and many others I know, and we discussed a few months ago my statement that such anointing always brings healing of one sort or another, and can and has on some occasions known to me actually brought people back from the brink of death. Other uses include ordination, and the anointing of kings.

I don't see that it in any way alters the meaning of "Christian" being a follower of Christ, though. These are all words derived from the root word, and they all refer to Christ as the Anointed One, but the actual meaning of this particular word doesn't mean exactly the same thing. They refer back to the original meaning of the root, yes.

Thus, to fill it out, Christian means "follower of Christ" and thus "follower of the Anointed One".

I'm going to send you a PM!

HAGGELOS SAID

Chariklo: No trouble at all and you are most welcome.

While you may “never [have] heard of such a thing before associating with the JW's,” it does not necessarily mean that such a teaching is not true, right? There are so many things we don’t know (everyone of us) that we come to learn in our walk with Christ and Jah. The Bible does, however, speak specifically to the issue of rulership by Christians. Therefore, you must know it does teach this, right? Regardless of whether we accept that teaching or not. And, yes, we are all servants of one another—indeed.

You respond: “For instance, you say "Are not true Christians a "privileged class"?" My answer is not only, no, they are definitely not. . . .”

Please explain how true Christians are not a privileged class? I certainly consider myself to be privileged to have been chosen. Otherwise, I’d be lost. It is a privilege and honor to be chosen although I am not worthy of it whatsoever. It is only by God’s mercy and undeserved kindness that one is such, right? Yet still a privilege. . . .

As for the phrase “true Christians,” even our Lord contrasted that term when he warned His followers to be on guard or on the lookout for “pseudo christos,” right? If there are “pseudo Christos”—false Christs—or false Christians (and there are, because He said so), then there must also be “true Christians,” right? Does not logic so dictate? Even if we/you don’t use the term, right? It is not a false teaching.

AGUEST SAID

Thus, to fill it out, Christian means "follower of Christ" and thus "follower of the Anointed One".

But it doesn't, dear one (peace!); again, that is the word "disciple." I mean, you can MAKE it mean what you want for YOU... what is pleasing and acceptable to you... but truly, that is not what the words means.

Christ... was not a follower of Christ, dear one. And the word "christian" means "christ person" - kristos nos... or christ ian. It means CHOSEN (by means of an anointing) person/one.

One becomes a "christian" when one is anointed with holy spirit, the "oil of exulation," in the likeness of Christ, who was so anointed:

“The Spirit of JAHVEH God is upon Me,
Because JAHVEH has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
To console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.” Isaiah 61:1-3

This verse applies to Christ... FIRST... as the One anointed (chosen) and sent by JAH Himself. That anointing occurred when he came up from the Jordan and JAH's spirit descended upon him in the likeness of a "dove."

Because of this, a direct anointing by JAH... and NOT by the High Priest (who usually anointed kings for Israel), my Lord was said to have been anointed MORE than us (his companions):

"You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions." Psalm 45:7

WE, however, are anointed NOT by men appointed by man... but by the High Priest appointed for us by GOD. As was always meant for the kings of Israel to have been, "until Shiloh comes". Unfortunately, Israel was hard-headed and hard-hearted, and when the kingdom divided, this requirement was sometimes lost, often disregarded/overlooked. But not with JAH. His plan is the same as it was then. And so NOW, that High Priest is Christ:

"This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even [Jesus], having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek..." Hebrews 6:20

And that's why John wrote as dear tec quoted above, that it is the ANOINTING that teaches us... because that is what "connects" us to God, THROUGH Christ... because it is God's blood IN us. Which blood SPEAKS.

Again, I understand if these things are foreign to you, but I would ask you to consider that perhaps it was the conduct by some that ran you OUT of the WTBTS before you could even get an inkling of what we're speaking about. True, they not only misteach these things but try to keep most from it; but that doesn't negate what IS true.

As always, I hope this helps, truly!

Peace, dear one!

YSSFS of Christ (always),

Shellama

JUSTMOM SAID


Hello dear CHAR

Our dear Lord has reminded me of His words at Matthew 24:24
" For FALSE Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to MISLEAD, if possible even the CHOSEN or ELITE ones."

So if there are FALSE Christs (annointed ones) or Christians, then there must be TRUE Christs (annointed) or Christians.

The definition of " chosen" or " elite". Is...
1. Carefully selected
2. Chosen for an office or position but not yet installed

This is where the ruling with CHRIST as priests come in during the 1,000 year reign on earth. REVELATION 5:9 & 10

Hope this helps

But if not I understand
Love Justmom

JUSTMOM SAID



Hello my brother

My spirit is in line with yours

Thank you for sharing
I think we cross posted




Love ya Justmom

HAGGELOS SAID

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:17 pm Post subject:
Hi, JM: Waving back at you! Yes, we must have crossed-posted.

Chariklo: By the way, no doubt we've all heard of the phrase: "The Thousand-Year Reign of Christ"? That's really a misnomer. It is, more accurately, the "Thousand-Year REIGN" of those who RULE with Christ.

Here's to smiling at you all.

Haggelos

AGUEST SAID



Now THAT... IS a WTBTS false teaching, dear Haggelos (hola and the greatest of love and peace to you, my dear one!). The way they teach it, it's as if our Lord's kingship and reign in only 1,000 years. His, however, is an indefinitely lasting rulership... is never brought to nothing... and thus last forever! He has PROMISED, however, to allow those who belong to him, of HIS Body, to rule WITH him... for 1,000 years of that his kingship. Thus, THEIR co-rulership with him ENDS... after which the Adversary is loosed to go out an misled both humans (Gog) and spirits in the physical world vicinty (Magog)... to come against the Holy City (US!)... New Jerusalem.

The WTBTS doesn't "get" this, because... once again, they rely on their OWN understanding, rather than receiving from Christ through holy spirit. Ah, well...

Thank YOU, though, for sharing that and, as always, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

CHARIKLO SAID



No, sorry, Haggelos, I really do not think this is right in any way at all. Not at all. Pure JW, to me.

Each to his own, I suppose...

AGUEST SAID

The Witnesses take it from this, dear Char (peace to you!):

"I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about [Jesus] and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." Revelation 20:4-6

What John saw was in fulfillment of this:

"And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Luke 22:29, 30

While that part was for the Apostles, John saw the FULL fulfillment in this vision:

"I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. And they sang a new song, saying:

'You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.” Revelation 5:9, 10

This rulership was SUPPOSED to go exclusively to the nation of Israel; unfortunately, their disobediences resulted in a loss for them but a gain to the people of the nations who replace them as such kings and priests.

I hope this helps!

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

HAGGELOS SAID

Chariklo: Not a problem here, my sister.

Question: How do you understand the following biblical text:

“4And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.”—Revelation 20:4-6.

--Haggelos