xjwsforChrist

AGUEST SAID

I did think your question was with regard to EX JWs, dear HP (good morning and peace to you!), and so I am glad that dear tec and 'Mom (peace to you both!) responded. And they are correct - it is because, really, why would we go to anyone else, any other religion? We don't speak their language nor they ours. Even so, as others have said, such ones are already DOING what they should be:

"He then said to me: “Son of man, go now to the people of Israel and speak my words to them. You are not being sent to a people of obscure speech and strange language, but to the people of Israel— not to many peoples of obscure speech and strange language, whose words you cannot understand. Surely if I had sent you to them, they would have listened to you. But the people of Israel are not willing to listen to you because they are not willing to listen to me, for all the Israelites are hardened and obstinate. But I will make you as unyielding and hardened as they are. I will make your forehead like the hardest stone, harder than flint. Do not be afraid of them or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious people.”

"And he said to me, “Son of man, listen carefully and take to heart all the words I speak to you. Go now to your people in captivity and speak to them. Say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says,’ whether they listen or fail to listen.” Ezekiel 3:4-11

I have to add, though, that dear Chaps' (peace to you, as well!) assessment is incorrect... and dear Chaps, I have to say that I take exception to it, at least as to me, and while I can only speak FOR myself, I think you are incorrect as to others, as well. Very few former JWs who partake now actually go BACK and do so at the JW event. Most do so in private, at their homes or in the homes of others who also partake. There are also new ones now partaking inside who have not left. Those of us who DO go back do so for the reasons we explained in this and other threads: to declare our union with Christ and let those inside SEE what it is THEY should ALL be doing. I don't feel disrespected or persecuted, at least not for that reason. I do feel PITY... because I know how those folks think and why: I was once one of them, as were you. And gratitude that I am no longer of such thinking.

If I feel disrespected and persecuted... it would only be by a sundry few of the atheists I've "met" since leaving the WTBTS. I never expected respect and acceptance from JWs for what I do (partake) or share (as to God/Christ/truth/Bible) and I don't know any do have (although I do realize there are some, but then I would question "who" such ones are listening to, as Christ said a slave if NOT greater than his/her master and if they persecuted him, they would persecute HIS servants. So EXPECTING respect and acceptance is not only a mistake, but suggests a VERY wrong motive FOR partaking (wishing reverence for oneself rather than GIVING reverence to God and Christ). Indeed, I was told and shown LONG before I first partook how that would be received; thankfully, I had time to prepare my family.

The thing is, though, for the MOST part JWs leave me be. They don't come at me, follow me around (in real life OR on the Internet) chiding me, or outright oppose me... or what I believe and/or share. They don't suggest, at least, not directly TO me, that I should see a doctor and be checked for a mental illness of some kind. They don't falsely accuse me of untoward motives and attempts to start a new church or mislead people I share what I do with. Most don't even know I exist, and those that do are more frightened of ME than I could ever be of them. Sure, some may be talking about me behind my back... but not much, I don't think, as I am pretty much off their radar. Sure, some shoot me disdaining looks... but that's only once per year - I can handle that, and they never actually SAY anything... to ME. Others don't speak to me... but so what? Unless they wish to discuss Christ, I don't necessarily wish to speak with them, either.

But the few sundry atheists I've come across (and it is a few, absolutely NOT all)... that's another story entirely. I won't go INTO that story, because I know you know it and quite well, but again, if anyone was making me "feel" disrespected... and possily persecuted... it would be such ones.

Praise JAH, however, I have learned from my Lord that these don't know what they do, either... and so I can use the mercy and love I have received from HIM... to "cover over" what I might otherwise consider "transgressions" against me. And so I don't belabor them or their antics. Because I realize that it is actually THEM, these sundry atheists, who feel disrespected and persecuted... by means of feeling IGNORED... by the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies. Because they don't hear Him (or His Christ), they don't believe He exists, let alone exists. And so, they are of the mind (and heart) that, "Well, if I don't hear Him, NO ONE does." Which is not true at all. Rather than HUMBLE themselves, however, and consider that, possibly, He IS speaking to them, as well... but through His Son... and go TO that Son so as to hear what is being said to them... they take issue with those who DO go.

Like JWs, such sundry folk are also speaking of things that they have no clue about. They think, because of their own experience with one religion, or even a few, that they "totally understand" ALL faith and spirituality - they do not. Their own lack of understanding as to the things we share... and why... is proof of that. Indeed, some often comment that they "have never heard" of the things we share, including the name of our dear Lord. If one has NEVER HEARD of a thing... how does one deign to COMMENT on it? I can't see how, personally, and consider it all arrogance and haughtiness a task to undertake. Rather, one should remain quiet, IMHO, and LEARN... FIRST... so as to know WHAT to comment on/about. THAT is the "intelligent" thing to do.

But I don't ascribe much intelligence to these, so... well, there you go.

Now, please, don't consider this a "pounding," as it was not. You made a general comment that is, almost unequivocally incorrect... and, if you allow yourself to really LOOK at it... disrespectful. You have stated your position that our attending the Memorial is disrespectful of others' worship... which NONE disrespected but actually SHOWED respect for... BY partaking... because that is SUPPOSED to be what the event is for and ABOUT. And we do so pursuant to an "open" invitation for ALL to attend (ummm... perhaps some here even received one of those little tract invites on their door - we did!).

Yet, you hypocritically turn around and disrespect OUR form of worship. Which you... and others... do at EVERY turn. Do you SEE?

So, no pounding. Just some statements of truth which I TRULY hope you can (finally) receive. If not, please be prepared to expect more from. Because for every attempt where you try to show your disdain for OUR form of worship... I will point out YOUR hypocrisy.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

CHAPPY SAID

I do not know what you are talking about, Aguest, or why those comments were directed at me. I told Pup how I know that the bulk of JW's would react to what happened. It had nothing really to do with exJW's, or if YOU felt disrespected. So I don't know where you are going with that.

But I definitely stand by what I said. JW's didn't look at outsiders and exmembers partaking as a light shining. For the most part, they just saw a disruption in their ritual.

Really not sure how my comment about them was turned around to be about you, but sometimes I have a difficult time understanding your posts. So I guess I'll just assume I don't understand.

JUSTMOM SAID



Ola Chappy

Couldn't help it but this comment stood out to me . I'd like to respond to a thought about this .

Yes, I agree most MAY feel disrespected...maybe even persecuted??...

YES, it may reinforce to SOME what the WT lies do spread about so-called apostates. ( apostates for the most part just being folks that understand how important communion IS now for them)

But to the last part, those that are not willing to even ask as to WHY ones would come and partake because of fear of man, for those it may not be the reason we are there. For those it may just serve as a demonstration that is meaningless therefore allowing for offense.

BUT....for THOSE even if it be ONE or TWO that have been hearing and showing themselves prone to be listening to the call" to come out and come to HIM, it may be the visit that opens up this door for them and confirms what they had been hearing and an answer to their prays.
Because do we REALLY know what goes on in their hearts???

And for me personally, this is worth the opportunity I had and privilege to be there.

Thought I'd share
Love Justmom

YPPUPLLEH SAID

There was concern about derailing of threads made so i'll start a new one entitled "An unpopular view"
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...

AGUEST SAID



Oh, c'mon - sure you do, dear Chaps (peace to you!). I was talking about and directing my comment to you in relation to YOUR comments that:



You seemed quite clear as to who you were speaking about (and I say "seemed" because perhaps you misspoke, which is fine, but you only need say that)... which folks include me. So, I responded as to ME, due to being one of those folks. Based on YOUR comment.



(Smile) While that might have been what you MEANT to do, dear one... and if so, again, all you need do is say that... that isn't what you DID. What you DID was refer to EX JWs as, unfortunately, your comment shows. Now true, what you posted, (i.e., "those who chose to have communion at the Memorial") COULD have included both current and/or ex JWs. However, your comment "may have been called to go to share their experience with those still in the system contradicts that and implies who you actually MEANT: exJWs. Those who are NOT "still in."

C'mon, girl. And if that's NOT who you meant, then by all means, say that ("Oh, oops, I MEANT to say..."). I... and I'm sure everyone else here, can accept that. But, I mean, if you're stickin' to what you originally posted, then... nope... what you're sayin' NOW... is NOT what you stated then. Sorry, but it's not.


But, see, I think you DO. I think you know exactly what you stated... and meant to state it. I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think so, having gotten to know you as I have. See, I realize that you consider yourself to be quite... mmmmmm... clever... and while are you ARE somewhat, and I DO have great respect for you because of that... you're not really THAT clever.

You indicated who you meant, Suze: those who are NOT "still in" the system. Hence, contrary to your statement that it "really had nothing to do with exJWs," I believe the TRUTH is that it really DID. OR... you need to acknowledge that you misspoke. Which you don't seem eager to do, either. And so, this is what I mean when I (often) point out YOUR dishonesty.



Some... even most, sure, yes. And that's fine. But not all, you can trust me on that. Even so, we here know how that feels... but also that it is what it is. And so WE accept that. Again, though, THEY made the invitation. And some of us accepted. Which is something I am sure YOU can understand, yes? Taking advantage of an invitation for which you have a "sneaky feeling" isn't REALLY a genuine invitation, but, what the hey... they put it out there? YOU know what I'm sayin'... wink-wink...



Sure you do: because I am an exJW who chose to have communion at their Memorial. Which is who you were speaking about.

C'mon, Chaps... we all knew who you meant. Well, anyone awake and paying a modicum of attention. 'Cause you're really not THAT clever. I mean, I wish I wasn't the one who had to break it to you... but you know me: truth.

Q

Yet, you know it doesn't have to be that way because you KNOW I am MORE than willing to explain anything you find... "difficult" TO understand. Or confusing. If nothing else, folks here know I will explain something (LOL!). YOU know this, as well. Of course, if you don't wish to GET clarification, but continue not understanding... well, then... I mean, I don't want to force ANYTHING on you... so, yes, you would have to ask. Not because I am somebody but because I'm not... and so can't read your mind. But if you WANT clarification I will certainly do what I can to help you, as such pertains to something I've posted.

Q

I mean, if that works for you, cool. But please don't play the "What? What did I say? I didn't mean YOU folks!" game. Because you did... and I truly believe you ARE more intelligent than THAT. I sincerely hope so. You should also consider not playing the "I just don't understand but it's not on me" game. 'Cause that one is resolvable, too.

Bottom line? Come correct with/as to me, dear one, and I'll do the same with/as to you. Actually, I'll do so regardless of what you choose to do. I prefer it as it leaves less to go back and "clean up"/apologize for later.

I hope I cleared THAT up.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant (yes, ma'am, I am!)... and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

Peace. Truly.

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

CHARIKLO SAID

Chappy, you asked if they'd announced I was no longer an unbaptised publisher. During the month they stood me down and re educated me, no, as in theory I was dim and hadn't understood.

After I had clearly walked, then I heard they had, but of course they were merely stating the truth, from my point of view. Nothing on this earth would have made me go back.

It was another eight months before I could go back to church, in other words, before I realised that deep down I knew where I still belonged.

The difference between us, Chappy, was that I had always, from my earliest years, known and loved God. You joined them from conviction. There were things I NEVER accepted in my heart. I got drawn in via emotional pressure, clever cross questioning making me feel foolish when I couldn't answer their sophistry. My original strong faith was intact all along, but buried deep, even though I used to say the Creed to myself in my heart.

I don't know how I got drawn in. Well, i was predisposed and weakened because of the anger i felt towards elements in my own church from events that had hurt people i was close to. anger is never right and opens the way for things to go wrong. i understand that very well.

I remain very ashamed. I know I'm forgiven, but I am still ashamed.

Thank you, Chappy, for sharing your story so fully. I feel I understand you a lot better.

ZOE SAID

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject:
I remember 5 years ago Brenda Lee the exjw who wrote the book Out of the Cocoon made a video of her going to the Memorial and partaking.

I did not think that she was respectful or did it for any reason other than too Mock and in that case I do not agree that is a good thing. She sat there chewing gum. The video doesn't seem to be available now but here is a discussion about it 5 years ago.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchto ... s-Memorial

I can sort of see the reason why Tec, JustMom, Shelby and Jochy went. They do feel the communion is important and they want to show others that they should feel its important too and available to all. I don't think it was done to mock.
_________________
*ZOE*

AGUEST SAID

I think the difference between us and Ms. Lee, dear Zoe (good morning and peace to you, luv!)... is that contrary to what some, not necessarily limited to practicing JWs, seem to THINK... WE... are NOT apostates. WE have NEVER been apostates, and while I can only speak for myself, I absolutely take EXCEPTION to anyone referring to me AS such. It is those who follow others gods (i.e., WTBTS GB, so JWs)... who have "apostacized" from the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies.

That they (JWs) call those who no longer agree with them "apostates" is NOT a reason for folks to unilaterally and unequivocally take on that label or refer to others as such. It is an INSULT to me, personally, to be called such... and particularly BY those who HAVE apostacized from God, which I HAD at one time, by means of my association with THEM.

It is an insult to me, as well, when those who wish to mock them and the term refer to me as such. I get it that such ones are trying to take the "sting" out of the word. For me, though, it's like a black person referring to me as the "N" word (hence, the hypocrisy of JWs), or someone who used to hang out with black people but had a falling out with someone black (hence, those who are no longer JWs) calling me by that term.

I don't think I would mind a PARODY on the word (such as the "N" word that ends in "a"), but no, the actual word is an insult (as is the "N" word ending in "er"). I realize that some might not understand that but, well, I guess if not you'd have to be black to do so. Maybe it's like some women who don't mind calling each other the "B" word (I am NOT one of them, though!)... but will go off if a man or non-friend uses it.

We don't go back and partake to make a mockery... of them OR of the event (which would be a mockery of Christ and his flesh/blood!). We go, as perhaps you now understand NOT to make fun but to show others what THEY should be DOING... TOO.

Truly, it's no different than my Lord going to the temple... which was rejected by God from the moment he came up from the Jordan (hence, the "dove" of JAH's spirit LEAVING the temple's Most Holy... and coming down upon HIM, HE now being the "vessel" for that spirit!). He knew that that system and its representive features and edifice were no longer beloved to and approved by God. He also knew, though, that the PEOPLE God loved... still went, met, and worshipped there. And so HE went where God's PEOPLE... ISRAEL... WERE.

I hope this helps.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

JOCHY SAID

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:46 pm Post subject:
I only would add this:
Galatians 1:10 (NIV)

10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

AGUEST SAID

Amen, Brother Jochy, amen! LOLOLOL! And peace to you and your household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

CHARIKLO SAID

It's very clear to me that Shelby and those we know here did not go to mock.

Of course! There has never been any thought in my mind that there was any chance of that. I have found it enlightening to learn from people here how keenly you all feel that you are following Christ's instructions and example...do I have your motivation right?

And also, it was an eye-opener to me to learn and to understand how very much you feel it a mission to go and take part in this act of communion, demonstrating, if I understand you right, to all those practising, unenlightened JW's still stuck in the movement, that they too could do so. They too can free themselves.

As I understand it, you all, and especially Shelby, see this as very much your mission. I hold you all in high regard for that and have deep respect for what you do. I definitely did not understand this properly until you all explained your points of view on this subject.

For myself, naturally I see things differently, because I am very much a Catholic, and fortunately my faith was strong enough for me not to have extinguished it by associating with JW's any longer than I did. That faith was lying there deep inside until gradually all the JW nonsenses built up and I saw it all for the wicked sham it is, and also realised suddenly in a flash while listening to the two elders haranguing me the enormity of the mistake I had made in ever allowing them to talk to me.

But that's me. Perhaps Burn and one or two others feel something like me. I have had a very profound long weekend, spiritually, as day by day through Holy Week and then on the Thursday onwards as we have gone through all the stages of It all from the Last Supper and the institution of Holy Communion, then the Passion on Good Friday, the Vigil on Saturday evening, when we've gone through key points of the whole Bible, from the Story of the Creation on through up to Christ.

Incidentally, the very first part of all that is when God says "Let there be Light" and there was Light. This is symbolised by the lighting of fire from flint and stone outside the church. The fire is brought in, the people following, into the darkened church, and from that light a candle held by each one is lit. So the first part of that service of the Easter Vigil is in a dark church lit solely by little candles, and the first thing said is "Lumen Christian", the light coming into the church being not only the beginning of Creation but Christ being the Light of the world.

So I've been spending many hours in church the last few days, joyfully participating once more in the fullness of the Church, and receiving Holy Communion every day. We see that participation as receiving real nourishment from Christ. To do so only once a year would, for a Catholic, be a terrible deprivation. That I separated myself so far from him in the JW's will be a source of pain for me all my days, I think.

That's my perspective on this whole question. I am very moved when I read all your accounts of your Memorial, for you all show great courage in stepping outside the restrictive bounds set by the Watchtower. For you this is of very deep significance and a matter of great joy, just as my participating again once more, for the first time in three years, in the fullness of every part of the Church's commemoration of Christ's Passion and resurrection on Easter Day.

He is alive! He is risen! Alleluia!

AGUEST SAID

You DO have it right, dear Char (good morning, Happy Our Lord Has Risen Day, and peace to you!). And I am SO glad of that! I realize how "foreign" it must have all sounded to you to start, but I am glad that YOU opened YOUR heart to try and understand and "see". THANK you!

And YES: He is alive! He is risen!

And so, PRAISE JAH... ALL you people! Let every... living... BREATHING... thing... let it PRAISE JAH! For His WORD and King... IS alive! He IS risen! PRAISE JAH!

Again, peace to you, dear one!

YSSFS of Christ, to time indefinite,

Shellama

ZOE SAID



I think this sums it up totally I really feel you who went and partook did it out of the goodness of your hearts.
I brought up Ms Brenda Lee's experience to show the difference and how her reason was obviously not out of love.
_________________
*ZOE*

TEC SAID

Good verse, Jochy!

Char and Zoe both, thank you for listening so as to understand.

He IS alive, speaking and teaching and guiding us even now.

Can you imagine the excitement and the joy of His disciples and apostles, upon seeing Him risen, alive, and speaking with them? The same excitement and joy that we have now, hearing Him, feeling Him, knowing that He is alive and with us now.

Peace and love to all of you,
tammy

CHARIKLO SAID

Thank you, Shel and Zoe for your insights!

But thank you Chappy, too, for helping me to see how it was for you. I do see now a little of how much you were spiritually captive in that cult.

I would like to think...I certainly hope!... that I've managed to convey something of the sheer wonderful joy and peace that lies within the pre-Easter and Easter period of the Church as I have been experiencing it. Actually, it's been enriched, in a strange way, by the freezing cold as I've walked to church, the cold wind and dark skies outside the church as the primal fire was lit, with us all gathered round, and Bible readings read, with prayers and hymns as we then went, shivering rather, into the church.

This morning it was still very cold, but bright and sunny, and the church packed to every corner and the roof almost raised with the Alleluias! in praise of the Risen Christ!