xjwsforChrist

LEAVING QUIETLY SAID



No kidding. If Christ started reigning as King in 1914, then we're already 99 years into the 1,000 year reign. Simple math, folks. Of course, I'm not saying I believe the 1914 date. That's actually quite silly considering the "prophecy" used to get there does not even exist in the remotest in the scriptures (the 2,520 years.) Yep, it's a made-up prophecy. We can thank William Miller and James and Ellen White for that one.

AGUEST SAID

Since Christ doesn't arrive until after the tribulation, this doesn't appear to disagree.

Yes, but their current "light" combines Armageddon and the GT, dear LQ (good morning and peace to you!)... as well as gives an oh so convoluted explanation of the "generations of 1914." So, no doubt, this will be convoluted, too. It HAS to be... because if it's CLEAR... who would listen to/follow it? Should we really think that once the GT hasn't come in, say, another 10 years or so they are NOT going to come with a new explanation?

Most probably, they will say something like:

"Oh, wait! NOW we understand that Armageddon occurs AFTER the 1,000 years (it does!)... and the resurrection occurs after THAT (it does!)... and [because of when it's referred to in the Bible] THEN New Jerusalem comes down (it doesn't, then - it does AFTER the GT and BEFORE the 1,000-year reign)... so NOW we understand the reign is INVISIBLE... which is what we've ALWAYS said! So all we're doing is reiterating our position that the "great crowd" is in the SIGHT of the throne... etc., etc., etc.!"

They HAVE to have a contingency plan... in order to keep that publishing company going. The "what if, and how do we explain when" plan.

Their members were being kept asleep by watching the 144,000 countDOWN clock. Now, the count is RISING. Oh... snap!! Gotta explain that away somehow, especially after this year because I KNOW the count is going up just based on those I know partook this year, not counting those here. The "mentally diseased/mistaken" explanation isn't going to fly - folks KNOW some of these folks and so KNOW that's not the case. Of course, they could change HOW they count and only count those who "regularly" attend and aren't DA/DF'd. Even so, it's still going to be MORE than it was a decade ago.

And if they don't do something it's going to continue to climb... which they CAN'T have, given their teachings/explanation on who the 144,000 are and what they represent. Just the teachings dear LQ quoted above shows that.

Even so... no need to concern ourselves but just watch and see how it unfolds. But we can be absolutely CERTAIN it will be more lies. At THIS point no WAY they can make an about face and turn to the TRUTH... and keep their members. Because to do that they would have to confess that they are false christs and false prophets... and hell would freeze over before they would do THAT.

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

ZOE SAID

love how this is unfolding as regards to the doctrine and continuous "new light" with the WT. They have lied themselves into a corner.

CONVULTED = WTBTS
_________________
*ZOE*

LEAVING QUIETLY SAID

Quote:
combines Armageddon and the GT


Yes, you are right. The GT is three phases according to current "light".
Phase 1 - Overthrow of religion by the UN
Phase 2 - Attack on JWs by Satan and his cohorts
Phase 3 - Armageddon

One scripture that I keep coming back to is Amos 5:18, which, in part says: "Woe to those who are craving the day of Jehovah!"

WTS and JWs CRAVE Jehovah's day. Like nothing else. It's sad, really. They crave the destruction of eight billion people. They crave the revenge upon their so-called persecutors. They crave the GT and Armageddon.

I have not come to the realization that Armageddon is AFTER the 1000 years. I'll have to research that. I have, though, come to realize that the fulfillment of Revelation 21:3, 4, which JWs so love to quote, can only be AFTER death is thrown into the lake of fire, which is AFTER the 1000 years has ended. Only then can it be said that "death will be no more". (Please correct me if I'm wrong about this... after all, I seem to be an infant with the scriptures these days, as if seeing them with new eyes.)

AGUEST SAID



THAT's because of their LACK of love, dear one (peace!). Rather than being like Abraham, who pleaded on behalf of Sodom/Gomorrah... Moses, who pleaded on behalf of Israel... and Christ, who pleads on behalf of ALL who put faith in him... or doing what HE says... which is LOVE our enemies and pray FOR them... these LACK mercy.



Maybe this will help, dear one:

"Now when the thousand years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city." Revelation 20:7-9

Now, read this, which is the exact same account, from a more close up point of view:

Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Harmageddon." Revelation 16:12-16



You are correct; however, keep in mind that verses 1 and 2 occur BEFORE that (it corresponds to Revelation 20:9, where New Jerusalem has ALREADY come down and is on the earth). There are two things that might help you understand this:

1. Try and think as to HOW John saw the revelation: at times, all at once. But he had to write it down. And so he is not always meaning "AFTER this" in time as to what he saw when he says "and I saw"... but that he ALSO saw... either at the same time... or not but also in the VISION.

2. MANY verses in the Bible are not only dicta but placed wrongly. For example, Revelation 16:15. Does it not appear out of sync? It is, dear one.

I hope this helps. I have to run out right now but I will explain when I get back if you need that.

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

CHARIKLO SAID

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:56 pm Post subject:
Is it me? Maybe I'm weird, but I never ever think about Armageddon, or the Great Tribulation...actually, I don't think anyone except JW's think about the latter...but I don't give all of that a moment's thought.

Isn't it better to live in the now? We can't do anything about some unspecified future date, but today, every today that comes, we can do our best to follow Christ's teachings and to make our own little bit of difference in the world.

The WT's emphasis on future things detracts from that, and DIStracts JW's from living each day. Surely, the one circumstance in which each person can make a difference is in the here and now?

That's all we can do, but it's the best we can do, and it's what each one of us was set here to do. Our own little bit of God's plan, the little bit that God wants us to do, the bit that no-one else can do for us.

YPPUPLLEH SAID

his was overlooked in another thread so I will repost here



Hellpuppy



Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 537
Location: In my rubber room
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject:
I am curious do ex JWs who still have their faith attend Catholic mass or Protestant churches?
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...

CHAPPY SAID



No, this is not specific to JW's. Not at all. Many Protestant religions, especially the more fundamental they are, are very concerned with the the upcoming GT and Big A. Some are even anxiously awaiting a Rapture when they will be taken from the earth while the rest of us are left to deal in the GT.

I once got a bible tract in my door from a Baptist church with instructions on how to survive the GT and get into heaven, since they won't be there to tell me, having already been raptured.

I was often confronted with such beliefs at the door. It was odd that they were in complete agreement that we were living in the Last Days (they used the same terminology) but of course they disagreed with what the right course was to follow.

Some years ago The Left Behind series was published. you may be familiar with that. They were a series of novels that dealt with The Last Days, The GT, Armegeddon etc. Half the people on the bus would have their noses buried in one of those books. I'd hear people discussing them and saying if they brought people to Jesus, then they had done well. I have a librarian friend that told me there was always a waiting list for these books.

Kirk Cameron starred in the movie, Left Behind which was the first of the books in the series. I think he played a preacher that was left behind in the Rapture and on earth during the GT and his personal spiritual struggles.

I often heard women at work refer to The Last Days. We had a group that seemed to have either a Baptist or Pentecostal background, and they would often make religious references as they spoke. If they heard about something horrible in the paper, they'd often comment on the evidence of the Last Days.

The reason I'm giving these examples, both in our literary culture, and personal experience is to show you that in America, this is not contained in small pockets. Sometimes I think you are dismissive of certain things because you don't see them in your area of the world, or you think they are particular to JW's because that is where you were exposed to the ideas.

After 911 when the planes hit, we had to evacuate our downtown area, and that meant many of us were walking because the buses were full and many of us used public transport. All along the way I talked to people that were very fearful, and quite of few of them would be asking if this was Armegeddon or the beginning of the GT. I would emphatically tell them, no (even though I was a JW) and even helped a number of them calm down. It was a difficult afternoon. I was surprised at the time how many drew on those beliefs, which proves it's on many people's minds here.

If you ever want to talk about what is going on in America along these lines, we can. But I've gathered from many of your comments that you don't fully understand the religiosity here. Many, many people await the GT and Armegeddon and it is on top of their minds.

CHARIKLO SAID

It's not for me to say, Pup, but if they have their faith then I don't see how they can. They have to do what the WT says, and the WT says they mustn't have anything to do with other churches.

Their literature is sprinkled with pictures in which churches, Christian symbols and priests are subtly mis-drawn so as to look sinister or evil.

CHAPPY SAID

H

It would be rare, HP, and a bit controversial. NEVER for a simple service, but some may attend for weddings or funerals. Even then it is a struggle for them, and they don't take it lightly, and still some will criticize them.

You see, those churches are part of Babylon the Great, and they need to get out of her. So entering a church is a big no-no to them. How far they take that depends on the individual. They don't believe in inter-faith movements, so will not even work with other religions for any cause.

I think you'll also find it is why their language is a bit different. They don't have sermons, they have talks. They don't have churches, they have Kingdom Halls. They don't use pews, they use seats. They don't sing hymns, they have songs. Some of this separation is a bit multi-layered, but they are always looking for ways to be separate.

They don't even have bulletin boards! They have message boards. (you'll have to research the origin of bulletin boards, because I just don't remember it at the moment, but its something BAD *gasp*)

If they did start attending another church regularly, they would be considered disassociated, and before they get baptized, they make sure that they have dissolved any membership in other churches or religious organizations, formally. Usually a letter.

Sort of the principal that one cannot eat from the table of demons and the table of God. They do not mix.

CHAPPY SAID

Oh, and one more thing. If they did attend a church and actually participate, say for a Catholic mass, rather than just observe, that would likely be grounds for a Judicial Hearing, as they have worshiped a false god. Very serious stuff.

If they were there for compelling family reasons, they would not take part in the prayers (NEVER allow someone that is not a JW to lead a prayer, because that is praying to Satan) they wouldn't take part in any communion, or make the symbols of the cross etc. They would just observe. It's very uncomfortable.

CHARIKLO SAID


The JW's taking my study told me that if a JW went to a church it would be a disfellowshipping offence.

Once, when I was already an unbaptised publisher I admitted one time that I'd been back to one Mass. My goodness! What a furore! You'd think I'd robbed a bank! I was given to understand that it was a very serious misdemeanour indeed.

CHAPPY SAID

Yeah, it can be. But it depends. As I said, if there was strong reason to attend, like a wedding or a funeral, then it is left up to the individual. That doesn't mean there is not a lot of pressure and judgement. I've known people to attend weddings in churches, but decline to be IN the wedding, because that would be participating.

But yeah, if you went to Mass for the purpose of partaking etc, then that will bring down the roof. I'm surprised they didn't try to remove you as a publisher, or did they? They take that stuff pretty seriously.

CHARIKLO SAID


Another thing they tell you, if you show that kind of inclination, is that you are "spiritually weak". It's one of the manipulative jargon phrases.

If you are spiritually weak, as they decided I was, you have to go through a process of being re educated.

Pure brainwashing. It failed with me. Just too "spiritually weak"! LOL!

CHAPPY SAID

I'm not familiar with any process of re-education. Generally they will just try to encourage you to get back to the routine, people will start stopping by, elders will call to pray and read the bible, but they generally won't start a study with a person already baptized unless they have been absent for a very long time. That would be very, very rare.

However, they may start inviting the 'weak' ones over for family studies and family WT studies, which isn't the same. It's all about getting them back in that routine and up on that hamster wheel.

I've been through it a number of times.