xjwsforChrist

PSACRAMENTO SAID



I used to be angry with God too.
The I realized that I wasn't angry with God, but I was angry with MY belief of what God was and what I though God was suppose to be like and do.
I had made up a God that I could blame for all the wrongs that I didn't want to be responsible for.
When I saw a homeless person I blamed God, when I heard of a child being molested, I blamed God, when wars happened and people did horrific things in the "name of God", I blamed God.

CHARIKLO SAID

'm very fortunate. Not having had a JW upbringing, or any kind of negative indoctrination about God, I have always thought of God as my Heavenly Father, and of Jesus as a Friend. The story of Jesus telling the disciples to let the little children come to him spoke straight to me as a little girl, and I've never really lost that attitude.

When I read of the ways in which others have had a wrong image of God instilled into them, I feel sad for them. I'm just lucky, maybe.

JUSTMOM SAID

Hello Ya'll

For many raised around the WTBS for any significant amount of time, when the "LIGHT" goes on....and they see that the organization is not everything we were taught it to be, not even CLOSE and ALL the prophecies and predictions have not been fulfilled in our lifetimes (remember I wasn't supposed to even go to high school 1975 generation).....
they are truly HURT and DISAPPOINTED> with good reason! Many were elders, pioneers, bethelites COs, DOs, etc....Dedicated their whole energy, life and resources to this golden calf.
When you find out that "THE TRUTH" is not "THE TRUTH" and you know there is no where else to go....no one else has the corner market on truth....What do you do???? Who do you blame?????

If holy spirit has not truly opened your eyes and hearts and shown you "CHRIST" and explained why you were there to begin with and allowed to be there and that "ALL" is foregiven now....
JEHOVAH is the perfect person to blame. I might have done the same thing had I not been found by my Lord and Father truly.

The anger, baggage, fear, and resentment can overcome even entertaining that God was and is not responsible for this. It is "US" who is and our hard-hearts and stiff-necks can and may prevent us from acknowledging this. It does take humility.

But for may who still blame Jah, we can continue to pray that their hearts may soften to receive him in so they can be loved, foregiven and find their joy once again. There is truly life after the WT. I can personally tell you this.

My love to you ALL
justmom

AGUEST SAID

What you all said (peace to you all!) and particularly this insight from HP (peace to you, as well, dear one!):



Indeed!

Peace to you all!

A slave of Christ,

SA

GLADIATOR SAID


This thread interests me because I too have been and angry atheist but managed to get past the anger. Sometimes an atheist will want to believe that a personal god exists and there is something more than death to look forward to.

To see other people claim to have found God and that he talks to them is initially tantalising. If on closer examination the atheist finds that he can find no reason to believe in this discovery himself, disappointment can turn to anger. The believers who have made the claim can become the target of that anger. Wanting to believe in God is not enough. Belief has to be genuine or it is of no value.

What is required for an atheist to be content and at peace is acceptance of other people's right to believe in God. If believers can accept the atheists right to not believe in God, there is no need for anger. Reasoned debate is healthy and desirable because it helps to encourage tolerance and a sharing of the many insights, experiences and wisdom that we have collectively acquired.

The purpose of this forum is to encourage discussion among people of many different shades of belief and non-belief, without resorting to abuse to win a debate. By doing so we gradually find that we are not as far apart as we may have thought. We find that the most unexpected people have something of value to bring to the table.

Though not a believer, I value the opportunity to be included and accepted here. We are all on a journey and I for one have no idea where it will end. Christians and individuals with different beliefs on this forum have influenced me. Not to believe in God but to overcome anger and be kinder to others, something gladiators are not usually adept at.

LOZ SAID

Lovely post Gladiator. I have only just discovered this second page!

Loz x

FINALCALL SAID

Great post Gladiator

Thanks for the insight.

Finalcall

TEC SAID

Quote:
Wanting to believe in God is not enough. Belief has to be genuine or it is of no value.


I can understand frustration coming from this.

Thank you for your insight, Glad.

Peace,
tammy

AGUEST SAID

I love you guys. I love "those guys," too... but I love you guys... more - LOLOLOL! No seriously, some of the angry atheists I know (and I only know a few... and they all "gather" in one, well, maybe two places, now)... seem to ME to be in pain. Not from a religious perspective, but from a personal perspective. Most of them are "going through" something in their personal lives. Related to health, relationships, employment... all manner of challenges. It sometimes seems to me that the "shaking fists" aren't really for me... but "someone"... something, perhaps... else.

I noticed something different with some others, though, something perhaps in addition to pain: many of those [I know of] who exhibit the most... mmmm... "anger"... no, that's not the right word... derision, maybe... are current/former JW elders/other religious leaders (I sometimes wonder if anyone else ever noticed that, as well, or am I alone in my observation). Of those who are/were former JW elders... I see very little difference in how they approach the matter of faith... and those with faith... than the some of the elders I knew personally approached the matter of those in the congregation that they felt weren't "spiritual" (due to low FS hours/literature placements/meeting attendance... or "worldly tendencies." With the exception of those of their inner "circle"... everyone else was virtually an "amhararet," and so "beneath" them for one reason or another: they weren't elders' wive/children/family... or COs... or pioneers... or Bethelites, etc. Thus the were "inferior," especially in their thinking.

This particular personality type considered the "sheep" a burden, stupid and ignorant, and spoke to/treated them as such. Rolled their eyes at them, cursorily dismissed them, projected an "I'm an elder, which means I'm important, which means I'm smarter than you. Can't you tell? 'Jehovah's holy spirit CHOSE me... and so you'd better recognize!" The spoke insultingly and sometimes even contemptuously to those they were SUPPOSED to be "serving." These even treated those I knew who professed to be "of the anointed" astoundingly horrible. Always rolling their eyes behind such ones backs... or sighing heavily and rolling their eyes when someone commented above and beyond the rote statements in the WT.

The personality type was prevalent in the congregations I attended, I am very sorry to say, and I can't help but see it outside, now, as well.

Because of this, however, I've come to a very disturbing conclusion: the "wolves" are not only inside religion, but some have come out... only to continue their work of "snatching and scattering" the sheep even further. That is the thing that brings them the greatest joy in life... whether in a religion or out of one. That's why they dedicate their lives TO doing so.

Of course, I don't attribute this to all atheists, not even most. MOST I've come to know are wonderful people, tolerant, even supportive - just don't ask or expect THEM to believe/have faith. That's really all they ask. And I have no problem with that and will all I can to ensure that they maintain THEIR freedom, as well.

Because it is their CHOICE. I don't want anyone messing with MY choice... and I so I owe others the same thing.

Okay, gettin' punchy... rambling... need sleep. So good night... and peace to you ALL... believers AND non-believers!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

CHARIKLO SAID

That all strikes several chords with me.

For a start, those elders you describe clearly had their first cousins in the local congregation here. If you weren't part of a certain family, or a pioneer, or showing some other kind of diligence or superiority, you were nothing. This extended to anyone close to the congregation but not yet quite a full member. Anyone in any way individual was doomed from the start. One young man, whom I'd known for over 25 years, was "caught" by one of the elders. This very nice, interesting, hippy-type young, gifted chap with long hair and an individual style of dress quickly had the externals wiped away from him. The hair became a short back and sides, a suit was bought, and he shaved. He did his best. But he couldn't stop his brain from working, and he couldn't get rid of the fact that he was a very accomplished artist, with drawings and colour-wash sketches that came to life within a few lines. He was highly educated, too.

Those elders scorned his artistic talents, mocked his wide vocabulary (they did that with me too) and very soon showed signs of stress. He lasted a bit longer than me, but walked the following month. He was too different. He was never going to fit.

Since my experience was very similar, without the artistic talent, but like him, with a brain, I began to wonder just what was going on. These elders were not educated. Both had become JW's in their 20's, and before that had been thorough wide boys, sailing close to the line in respect of the law. The same was true of some, not all, of the other elders. I decided that the,y didn't really want to bring in new sheep, only the ones that fitted a very restrictive mould. This same attitude extended to elders'wives, though interestingly, not necessarily the wife of an elder of that type. Other elders' wives exhibited the same traits, and if anything they were every bit as ruthless as their male counterparts. Spiteful and vindictive, too.

All of those characteristics, and others that you have identified amongst just some atheists, bear good comparison in my experience and according to my observation. The love of flinging insult, the sureness they feel with their wingmen alongside. The way they home in on a target, exhibiting the characteristics of the elders of their personality type exactly as you describe. Even in the way they refer to their own JW experience, though this is seen on only rare occasion, one is left with raised eyebrows, as it displays an attitude very far removed from that of most who have emerged from the cult.

They make their choice, and they have to live with it, and the cost to them is visible as they continue in it almost as though they are constantly struggling to convince themselves. They have to bring up their atheism at every turn, and make sure that everyone sees and they hope applauds them for "exposing the real truth".

All too familiar, isn't it?

SKALLY SAID



Or as I implied on the other thread: a chatroom and/ or conference call.

Not sure I'd like to stand too close to some characters that are online, offline.

Especially YOU PUPPERS!

YPPUPLLEH SAID

Admit it you want to pet me ;D
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...

CHARIKLO SAID

...*tickles Puppy round the ears*...

YPPUPLLEH SAID

*shakes hindleg*
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...

SKALLY SAID

thought u said pet, not pee...stop shakin' that thang, it's gross.

yes, i see it says leg...lolololololol as i said, stop shakin' that leg.....