xjwsforChrist

The term "apostle" has a few Greek words that use it as a root word:

Strong's 649: apostelló - I send forth, send (as a messenger, commission, etc.), send away, dismiss
Strong's 651: apostolé - commission, duty of apostle, apostleship
Strong's 652: apostolos - a messenger, envoy, delegate, one commissioned by another to represent him in some way, especially a man sent out by Jesus Christ Himself to preach the Gospel; an apostle

This word is interesting in light of Revelation 2:2:
‘I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot tolerate bad men, and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars.

A passage that is used by WTBTS to support everyone having to preach in the formal door-to-door work is Romans 10:13, 14:
For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?

Interestingly, verse 15 is usually left out:
How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”"

Why is this interesting? The phrase "sent out" is apostelló, Strong's 649. By claiming that all JWs are to preach, they, in essence, claim that all JWs are "sent out". Would that not make them "apostles"? And if so, wouldn't it, then, be proper to test them?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

It would, dear LQ (peace to you!). It's what made Paul one (yet, not one of "the twelve", as he himself acknowledged). Made James and Jude ones, etc.



Not just proper, dear one... but REQUIRED. Indeed, MANDATORY. Their apostleship... AND so, their so-called "inspired expressions." Because if they AREN'T inspired, why listen to them, at ALL? Who are THEY to ask folks to follow THEM, if what they share is NOT from God or Christ, or granted by means of holy spirit? Yet, the lion's share of what they "say" is false... so their "inspired expressions" fail.

As a result... so does their "apostleship." Because if they are sent, sent... by WHOM? If Christ, then what they shared would HAVE to be truth. Because HE is the truth and ALL of HIS mouth are upright. And so, if NOT Christ... then WHOM... and why in the world should anyone listen to them?

They cannot say, "Not by Christ but by Jehovah". Because THAT would PROVE them false... if, by "Jehovah" they mean the MOST HOLY One of Israel (JAH of Armies). Because That One ONLY speaks by means of His Son. Even if an angel is sent, it is the SON who sends such one.

Some (of the WTBTS "great crowd") will try to deny this "apostleship." But if they are going out... as they do... and they do BECAUSE they ARE sent... then they are indeed "apostles." The question is: WHOSE apostles? Sent (out) by WHOM?

THAT, dear one, is another reason why my dear Lord's name... and title... is SO important. He is "Jah eshua"... or the "Salvation of JAH," yes. But he is also the Chosen One... OF JAH. Hence, "MischaJAH." Chosen One of JAH... and not just "Chosen One". Not just "Anointed," or even "Anointed One"... which is what the term "Kristos" (Christ) means. But Chosen/Anointed One... OF JAH.

ANYONE can be chosen one. Or an anointed one. Or even an apostle. It's WHOSE chosen/anointed one... apostle... they are that matters.

I hope that's what you meant by "Let's discuss..." - LOLOLOL!

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Yes, this is what I meant.

I can't recall why I went down this path. Something about "How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out?" (or "sent forth" in the old NWT.) Something about this struck me. I said to myself, "Who sends us out? What does the Greek word actually mean?" It was then that I found out that it was a form of the word apostle, and it was then that something "clicked" as to there being true and false apostles. Of course, a quick search on the words apostle and apostles showed Revelation 2:2 where testing an apostle is discussed. It was then that it "clicked" again that those who are sent out are, in essence, saying they are apostles. They may not realize it, but that is what the Greek word means.

I thought about this further last night. Christ chose his apostles. And he gave THEM the commission to "Go... make disciples." There are apostles, those who are sent forth with this commission, and there are disciples, those who learn from those sent forth. Right?

Christ did NOT say, "Go... make apostles." He said, "Go... make disciples."


Exactly my point. As I pondered this, I asked myself, WHO sent ME out? The answer was immediately obvious: NO ONE. I have not received a personal commission as an apostle. But was it really no one? Or was it the WTBTS organization who sent me out? Not personally, of course, but under compulsion by continually saying JWs have to do the preaching work.

The next question is: Who has AUTHORITY to send ones out? In the first century, hands were laid on individuals, such as Timothy, for such work, right? Was Timothy an apostle? He was admonished to "preach the word." Was he an apostle? I think the answer lies in Revelation 2:2. There were ones who were saying that they were indeed apostles. But, the congregation in Ephesus apparently questioned that since they tested them. Some were found to be liars. But, some, perhaps weren't? I don't know.

How were they tested? 2 Corinthians 12:12:
Indeed, the signs of an apostle were produced among you with great endurance, and by signs and wonders and powerful works.

What were the signs of an apostle?

This is an interesting topic to me. Why? Because WTBTS, either knowingly or unknowingly, makes every JW an apostle by sending them out as preachers. Thus, each one must be subject to testing, whether they literally say they are apostles or not. The very act of the organization sending them out makes them such, correct?

Peace to you Leaving!



We can 'make' disciples by giving witness to Christ (who is the Truth)... and having heard about Him (if they did not hear or put faith in having heard about Him otherwise, such as in the spirit), they may choose to follow Him. But we are not the ones who enable them to put faith in Christ (Jah does that), and we are not the ones who CHOOSE them. (many are called, few are chosen; and the apostles were often SENT to those who had been SEEKING, but who needed a bit of help along the way in understanding who it is they were seeking when they sought TRUTH)

So apostles bear witness to Christ as He sends us out, and also we do so out of love for Him and His Father and those they love (the Body, Israel, the Household of God); and we can (and are supposed to) continue to invite people INTO the Body of Christ. Hence the direction near the end of the book of Revelation given to John:

The Spirit (Christ) and the Bride (His Body, his apostles) SAY, "Come!" Let him who HEARS (hears Christ, who is the Spirit), say "Come!" Let all who are thirsting and all who wish, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of life."



Yes, in the wts, you were an apostle (not just a disciple, because you called people INTO the wts).

But remember the times you have given witness to Christ to those in the organization still? That was not the wts sending you to those people. That was work being given to you by the Spirit, by Christ.



I think laying hands upon someone was to transfer holy spirit into them, wasn't it? In that case, it would still be Christ sending the person out after that person had received holy spirit.




The signs spoken of by Paul would be the gifts of the Spirit. (speaking in tongues, etc, etc) However, I don't think that is how we can test apostles as being true or false. But we can test them by what they SAY. If they are teaching/speaking lies... then Christ has not sent them. For example, test what the wts teaches against Christ (and against love, and at the least one can test against what Christ is written to have said)

Truth cannot be defeated.

We might also sometimes test them by what they DO, depending. For example, the wts expels people from the congregation, forces them to jump through hoops to be able to return - all ignoring Christ's example of the prodigal son, and His words that we are to forgive our brother up to '77' times. Now, a disciple (of the wts, even though he might think he is a disciple of Christ) is doing what those who claim to be apostles teach them is true. But if those who claim to be apostles are teaching what is FALSE, then they are also FALSE.

This is an interesting topic to me. Why? Because WTBTS, either knowingly or unknowingly, makes every JW an apostle by sending them out as preachers. Thus, each one must be subject to testing, whether they literally say they are apostles or not. The very act of the organization sending them out makes them such, correct?

Apostles to the wts, yes.



But this is the reason we are to TEST the 'inspired expressions' to see if they emanate from Christ... or not. THAT is what Christ told me to do when I was frustrated in the past, unsure of whether or not I should listen to someone. He told me this even before I understood that verse about testing the inspired expression. The verse just backed up what He told me. He told me to stop worrying about the person and trying to test the person... but to instead test what they are SAYING.

Therefore, He told me to test the 'inspired expression'. So that is what I do.


And in any case, we are not to be following even those who do speak from Christ, who ARE apostles... but apostles are to help/invite others come to CHRIST, Himself... so that HE can and will teach us and complete our training. (I know you know this Leaving, just adding it because the Spirit is reminding me to add this).


Peace to you again,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

"As I pondered this, I asked myself, WHO sent ME out?"

LQ,

This is an interesting topic.

In reading this thread, I was reminded by my Lord that the Society wrote in one of their Watchtowers (the older larger versions of the Watchtowers like in the 30’s or 40’s) on the subject of “ordination” (similarly related to this subject we are presently discussing) that it—the Society—“ordains” its ministers to go witnessing. I do not remember the issue of the Watchtower. But I do remember without a doubt that the Society wrote most emphatically that it (the “Society”) appoints and “ordains” its ministers in contrast to Jah or Christ appointing them and ordaining them and sending them out. Therefore, they ARE admittedly ordained by the Society, sent out by the Society.

At the time of my first reading this, this revelation stunned me, thus my remembrance of it to this very day.

--Armando

I do remember this my brother...

Peace to you all this day,

Even sisters are considered as ordained ministers yet they cannot teach. ( well they can technically teach facing another sister, they can teach with a brother from door to door) but they cannot teach facing the congregation from the platform. What's the difference? If she's ordained why does it matter?
It never made much sense to me!

Anyways, great subject,

Love, your fellow slave of our Lord JAHESHUA MischaJah, Kim

All of the responses here are accurate, dear LQ (peace to you, dear one!). But I need to add to them, as to this:



We can test the inspired expression, as to whether it originates with God or not, yes. But this, above, is something DIFFERENT, something I've been trying to share with you dear ones for some time. Perhaps now it will make more sense.

Someone who follows Christ/his teachings... is a disciple. And the APOSTLES were told to "go make disciples." Why weren't they told to "go make APOSTLES"? Because... CHRIST is the ONLY One who can make HIS apostles. He is the ONLY One who can call... AND CHOOSE.... such ones. It is that CHOOSING... that ANOINTING... that moves from "disciple"... to "apostle." Because it is HIS spirit... holy spirit... which spirit is and he received from the FATHER... that "bears [such one] along"!

Now, a disciple (of Christ) can speak truth. There are those who don't know JAH or Christ at all who speak truth. But a disciple who is ALSO an "apostle" (sent) or "chosen" (anointed) one... can also PROVE that apostleship/anointing... BY such "signs... wonders... and powerful works!" By means of the GIFT(S) of the spirit that has been given them... TO prove it.

So, again, inspired expressions can be tested; however, "apostleship"... or "anointing/choosing"... can ALSO be tested! That is why the claim of WTBTS "anointed" that it's "just a feeling" and "between them and 'Jehovah'," etc., is MELARKEY! In fact, it wasn't until such benign claims came to be ACCEPTABLE... because of folks' fear of "judging" others (who SAID their were apostles... but were NOT)... that the "great apostasy" was able to come IN.

Initially, one couldn't go around just claiming to be an apostle (of Christ). One had to be able to PROVE they were. How do we KNOW? Dear one... "a slave is NOT greater than his master!" And didn't Christ (have to) PROVE that he was MischaJah? He did! Remember, he said:

"Believe... ON ACCOUNT OF MY WORKS!"

What "works"? The many MIRACLES and works of HOLY SPIRIT that he performed! Because of THESE... there was NO REASON to reject him! Hence, those of Israel who DID... although having SEEN his works... had NO excuse not to receive him!

If, then, HE had to prove Who he was... how could his SLAVES not have to do so????

So, when one reads the verse you first quoted ""How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out?", most entirely MISS WHO it says SENDS such ones OUT. Why? Because of the FALSE pen/stylus of the scribes SINCE that time. Those who deigned to INTERPRET what Paul "said"... had NOT clue what he MEANT. But let's look at how it's most often interpreted:

"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

"But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."

No. NO. This is NOT what Paul wrote... or meant! THIS is what he wrote... and MEANT:

"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

"But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes from hearing, but hearing the Word of God."

Faith comes from HEARING... CHRIST, the WORD OF GOD.

Why did they interpret/write it wrong? Because... THEY DON'T KNOW/BELIEVE that the Word of God... Christ... SPEAKS! So, they interpreted/wrote it in the only way the COULD: as THEY could understand it. Because... it was not GIVEN to the to understand anything ELSE.

But it is that Word, Christ... Who sends HIS out. He sent the Apostles. He sent Philip. He sent Paul. HE chooses... and HE sends. The Apostles... whether of the 12... or any subsequent, including me, your servant... do not send anyone out. We can only tell folks ABOUT the One who does the sending. We can only tell them about the free gift and, if he permits, allow ourselves to be used to pass it on... but it is HIM that does it. We can't choose folks randomly - HE chooses... and only if the FATHER "draws" such one TO the Son so as to BE chosen. Just as with the first 12 ("... the men YOU gave me; they were YOURS and you GAVE them to me").

Yet, when I try to share with folks that just following Christ's teachings does NOT make them a "christian," many get upset. Consider me as "judging," them/others. But, again, that is EXACTLY why the apostasy was able to creep in: BECAUSE "testing" those who SAY they are apostles/anointed... "Jews"... was eventually labeled a BAD thing.

That label was created by FALSE christs, however, who MISUSED Christ's admonition to "stop judging," to include "testing" those who made false claims of anointing, apostleship, holy spirit, etc. They are NOT the same thing, however. Christ even TOLD us that we would know who was NOT of him... "BY THEIR FRUITS." It was up to those who DID belong to him, therefore, to DISCERN who was not... so as to keep the Body "clean." They failed in this, though... due to fear. Fear of man... and an unnecessary fear of GOD, due to the lies about this matter.

Christ knew, however, that this would occur... which is WHY holy spirit GRANTS gifts: so that his chosen ones could PROVE... to NON-BELIEVERS... who and what they were, and by what means. So that non-believers would SEE... and KNOW... that they WEREN'T being misled... AGAIN... and hence, come TO Christ, rather than be scared AWAY (by folks making FALSE claims).

I realize that EVERYONE (who considers themselves a "believer")... WANTS to be chosen. Be a son of God. Be
"approved." Regardless of whether they are "christian" or otherwise. MOST. however, don't possess the FAITH... which is NOT a benign belief based on... what?... but REAL knowledge of God... by means of a REAL knowledge of... and relationship with... Christ. Which knowledge and relationship is MANIFEST... and can be PROVEN... by a least one, if not more, "gifts" of holy spirit.

We just live in a time where the Adversary holds sway... and so to say that... is considered "evil" and "judging." And that's exactly what the Adversary wants: for people to BELIEVE the lie... BELIEVE they "have a relationship with Christ," based simply ON that belief... as they are blindly led to destruction. Believe that all one must do IS "believe"... NOT listen... NOT obey... so as to MANIFEST that belief... and one will "go to heaven."

Believe that they are listening and obeying Christ... yet, as far as they're concerned, he does not speak. How, though, can one listen to one... who is MUTE?

Christ not only sends his sheep out, dear one... but he CALLS them... BY NAME... leads THEM out... and then GOES BEFORE THEM. How can one hear him CALL their name, though... if he doesn't speak? How can they follow him... if they can't HEAR him... because he doesn't speak? How can they hear him send THEM out... if he doesn't speak?

Lies. All lies. The Word of God, who IS the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... is alive. And the LIVING... SPEAK. JAH... is the God... OF THE LIVING.

It is the "voice" of the "dead" that (most of) mankind follows. The dead... and the blind. To the pit... where the dead GO.

I hope this helps... and I apologize for my... fervor... but I have been trying to get so many to SEE this truth for quite some time. But... it is not I who can give sight to the blind... or open the ears of the deaf. I am only a servant... and a good for NOTHING one, at that.

Peace to you, truly... and may YOU continue to seek the kingdom... and IT'S righteousness, which righteousness IS Christ... so that you too can hear, if you have not yet, when he and his bride say to YOU:

"Come! Take MY (Life's/Christ's) water... FREE! Come to ME... and DRINK... and find refreshment for YOUR spirit!"

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Thanks, everyone! This has been enlightening to me. Gives me much to think about.


It always comes around to this, doesn't it?
Faith seems elusive to me. Some times, I feel like I have a lot of faith. But other times, I feel as if I have none. I can't explain it.


This has been a topic of my prayers recently. I continue to ask for ears to hear, to discern that it's not my own thoughts. I feel like my prayers to God and my speaking to Christ are one-way conversations. I am frustrated by this (not justifiably, I know.) I'm almost certain it's my fault in some way. I've bared my soul to them. Nothing is left uncovered.


Yes, by name. Which is why I don't think I've been called. If I have, I didn't hear. I think this is the one thing holding me back from taking that last tiny step out of JWs. And it is a tiny step. It would be one simple sentence: "I no longer want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses." So, why don't I say it? I feel like I physically CANNOT say it. I don't know why. Like I'm being blocked in some way. I can whisper it, but I can't seem to say it out lout. It's a strange thing.

I need more faith.

LQ: Keep on asking for it and . . . .

Luke 11:1-13 (especially verse 13):

One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”

2 He said to them, “When you pray, say:


“‘Father,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.’”

5 Then Jesus said to them, “Suppose you have a friend, and you go to him at midnight and say, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves of bread; 6 a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have no food to offer him.’ 7 And suppose the one inside answers, ‘Don’t bother me. The door is already locked, and my children and I are in bed. I can’t get up and give you anything.’ 8 I tell you, even though he will not get up and give you the bread because of friendship, yet because of your shameless audacityhe will surely get up and give you as much as you need.

9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”


--Armand

Good Morning LQ and peace to you my brother,

That ONE simple sentence is not so simple if it is holding you back from letting go allowing you to "Quit touching the unclean thing" in order for our Lord to take you in.

That so called TINY step is the difference between slavery and freedom (possibly in Christ). I say possibly because many leave the WTBS realizing that it is not the truth but never actually coming to know WHO the real TRUTH IS! Because of this, they cannot truly understand what freedom IN Christ really IS!

And this one sentence that is so extremely hard TO SAY I understand. I was there with you. It made me literally physically sick. It was bittersweet as my Lord said it would be. But because of HIM I said it...I did it...and I have NEVER ONCE to this day regretted it.

He has and will NEVER leave you. It is truly a freedom, a load, a burden, a weight that has been lifted from me. He carries them and he carries ME.

But as to being sent forth by him this has been his words to me in Isaiah 61...

"The spirit of Jah is upon me, for the reason that Jah has anointed me to tell the good news which is Christ to the meek, to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to those taken captive, and the wide opening of eyes to the prisoners. To proclaim the year of goodwill on the part of Jah. To comfort all the mourning ones. To assign to those mourning over Zion, to give them a headdress instead of ashes, the oil of exultation instead of mourning, mantle of praise instead of the downhearted spirit...

and the entire chapter is truly comforting.

We are sent forth to proclaim Christ, share that he IS alive and speaks. That we need Him as our only leader.
That it is Christ who releases the sheep from bondage of their sins and how it is HE who forgives and HE we are to follow. That anyone can partake of his body and blood and that anyone who wishes can "Take lifeswater which is Holy Spirit, which is our Lord for FREE!"

Thank you for this topic, enjoy your day my brother,
Love your sister and fellow slave of Jaheshua, Kim


P.S. As to what Shelby shared as to the difference of a Christain verses disciple, one anointed of Jah and one that is just a believer.
A large part of the world professes christainity as being christain. This term is allowed to flourish by support of our adversary in order to continue to get people to deny Jahs existence, promoting agnosticism and atheism.
Because when you see what has been done over the last two thousands years in the NAME of christianity... that is enough to make anyone stop believing in God and Christ altogether. History alone should tell us that not all who claim "christian" ARE!
When we test it against Christ, the MAJORITY fail! It is few...

Just need to add this as our Lord reminded me.

Peace!

And so, just to further emphasize what our dear Lord MEANT... and what dear Armand and dear 'Mom have just shared, dear LQ (peace to you, ALL!), Paul's words recorded at 2 Corinthians 6:17-18 might help. I like it best from the NWT, but it's pretty clear from the NIV, as well:

Therefore,

“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.”

And,

“I will be a Father to you,
and you will be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty.”

You see, SO LONG AS YOU ARE STILL TOUCHING [THE] UNCLEAN THING... YOU are blocking the "Way." Because YOU are unclean by MEANS of your touching ("that you may not share in her sins")... AND you are not LISTENING so as to DO what the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, SAID to DO: GET OUT. Come OUT. QUIT touching [the unclean thing]. THEN... He will receive you:

"[Do what I TELL you]... and I WILL receive you."

Do you SEE?

YOU can't touch something unclean... and BE clean... or be CLEANSED. It doesn't work that way. Only CHRIST can touch something unclean... including us... and not only make IT (us) clean... but REMAIN clean HIMSELF. ONLY he can do that!

You cannot remain IN "vomit,"... lay in it, let alone RETURN to it... and not SMELL like vomit, luv. THAT's true... even in THIS world.

I hope that helps. I hope you DO see... AND hear... so as to (finally) LISTEN... and DO what we are CALLED to DO: GET... OUT. Rather, than like most, think he's going to go IN and GET you. Nope. He's going to call you... out. And he does:

"Get OUT of her... MY people!"

Thing is, do you HEAR that call? And if you do... are you LISTENING, so as to DO what the call SAYS?

Peace to you, dear, dear brother!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

See, now, I don't understand this. By your own account, you definitely DID hear while you were still in, but you're telling me that I pretty much CANNOT hear unless I get out first. So, call me confused on this point. Seems like a double standard is being applied.


This is exactly what I'm getting stuck on. I AM listening. But I do NOT hear that call. I READ it, by the posts here, but I have NOT heard it. You, Shelby, WERE called out, BEFORE you ever left. You had much assurance on your side. It seems as if you heard, even though you were not necessarily trying to hear. I recall your account of how you heard during a talk at a convention. You heard, and you were able to discern it prior to leaving.

I have thoughts that come to my mind, but they're always in my own voice. So, to me, it seems as if it's my own thoughts, something that comes to mind. I have never been able to definitely discern that it was him talking to me. And, for a certainty, my name has never been called, not even in my own voice. I keep asking for ears to hear in such a way that it's obvious to me. But thus far, this requested has not been granted.

And so, yes, I'm stuck... mainly because of this, I think. Uttering those ten words ("I no longer want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses") will, in an instant, forever change my life. Oddly, I want my life changed. I don't want to lose my family relationships, but it is a price I am willing to pay. But, for some strange and inexplicable reason, I cannot seem to take that final step. I do not know why.

Peace to you Leaving, my brother.




First... I think what the others have said is true... as Christ also said it (so I am not sure what you can doubt about it). "Stop touching the unclean thing... (the wts)... and I will take you in." Not that this is a punishment... but as long as you are in her, at least a part of you is listening to 'her' over Christ. Even if just by refusing to leave 'her'. She does not want you to leave (at least not without great personal loss - your friends, your family, your faith, your life).

But you KNOW that the wts is not the truth. You know the harm that the wts does to people. Yet you remain in her, and it seems you remain out of fear of what you may lose. I don't say that with ANY anger or judgment toward you AT ALL. Please hear that, my brother.

(and I am sure that you also do not want to hurt anyone that you love who are also in there, but sometimes... it is a 'tough love' that we are called to give, in the sense that we might make it easier for our loved ones if we go along with them and the lies they believe (and so all of us fall into a pit)... but if we go with Christ, this might not be 'easy' for them, but it - no, HE - leads us to LIFE, for ourselves and our loved ones.)


Second, while I was still listening to the wts teachings... I too got very frustrated. This is before I met all of you, and before I knew that Christ lived and spoke. I just wanted to know what was true and what I should do... I just wanted God to TELL ME, and I would BELIEVE and DO IT. I wanted to be SURE. But I was listening to other groups... rather than listening to CHRIST alone (even if just what He is written to have said). So the unclean waters ( the lies ) were interfering and clouding my judgment, and stopping me from seeing... or even going to and drinking... the CLEAN waters. (from Christ)

For example, I could not decide which was true: the trinity or Jesus is Michael. Of course... NEITHER was true, both were lies, but I was buying into them... or at least into that one had to be the truth. So I was blinded. I could not even consider something else. UNTIL... I simply went with what Christ said (and the other apostles), and if God wanted me to believe something other than that, then I would wait for Him to teach me. (which He did... through Christ).


But again, this was still before I understood that Christ lives and speaks. After I learned that... after listening to Shelby bear witness to this, and seeing where it is written and that others heard the Spirit right from the start, and so seeing that this is TRUE... well, then I also wanted to hear Christ. So I also started to ask, and to ask, and to seek and to knock. But when I asked, I KNEW, I had put full faith in Christ... that I would be GIVEN ears to hear as I had asked. But not in my time frame... in HIS, even if that took the rest of my life. I would just continue to obey Him in all that He has taught (even if just from what is written, and from love) until that time.


I did get frustrated sometimes... which I should not have done at all... not in Christ of course; but in wondering what I must be doing wrong. Which seems to be a bit where you are at, except that you are still in the wts. (no judgment again, my brother... I can't even relate, because you were born in, and my mother never forced even her own beliefs upon me, much less others.)


I want to also let you know something from my experience, that I am sure many have shared the same. Because once I did hear Him (or rather recognize Him)... I remembered and He reminded me of many other times that He had spoken to me, taught me, guided me. He still does remind me of past times, in fact. But the truth was that He had been speaking to me all along... I just did not know it was Him. (and Leaving, it is so awesome and humbling, remembering all the times He has spoken to us, that we did not know it was Him. So I look forward to that for you too)


Couple questions for you to ponder, and even take to Christ:

Do you think that you have seen the lies in the wts all on your own? If so, why do you see them now, but never saw them before? What changed?



Just after I decided, yes, I will get baptized (after a two year bible study)... I had a week or two between announcing to my study conductor that I would get baptized, and my next study session. And I suddenly 'had the thought' that I should re-read the wts red revelation book. So I did. During this re-read (and I had read the book MANY times before), I came across the part that said that everyone who dies at Armageddon (the jw false version of Armageddon) will not get a resurrection.

I froze. My heart dropped into my stomach. Because for two years, I had thought that everyone gets a resurrection and a second chance - everyone - including those who died at Armageddon. Now I learned that everyone who died at Armageddon gets no resurrection! And anyone who is not a jw (with few exceptions) dies at Armageddon. Well, that meant my WHOLE family would die at armageddon and get NO resurrection... because there was NO way anyone in my family was going to join. But not only that, billions of people would die at armageddon and get no resurrection, because billions of people are not jws.

I simply could not be part of that. Much angst and guilt followed... and all because I did not know the truth then, but have only just recently learned. Because Leaving... it was NOT a sudden thought that popped into my head. It was CHRIST who told me to re-read what was in that book, and Christ who OPENED my eyes so that I saw what I had not seen, for two years previously.


It was NOT me who suddenly saw what I had failed to see before. And it was NOT me who decided on my own to re-read the very thing that would stop me from joining, directly after I had decided TO join.

That was the Spirit. That was Christ telling me to re-read and see what I needed to re-read and see, to NOT join.

I don't doubt that He is the one opening your eyes AND calling you out, Leaving. But now that you have heard, and now that you do know that the wts is a lie and that Christ is the Truth... you are still resisting. That might be why you are not progressing in hearing Him. (and I tried to soften that last sentence, and so deleted the words and tried to change them, but could not write anything else. Then I drew a blank until I asked my Lord to remind me of the words I had been given to write at first)






Do you know the wts is a lie?
Do you know that Christ is the Truth?
Do you love Christ?
If so, why would you not follow Him, regardless of whether He was calling your name or not?
Why would you not run after Him, calling HIS name?


(I don't remember hearing my name called either - though I was not coming out of a particular 'daughter' - but I know He sent me to places and to people to witness to Him, the Truth.)





If you are SURE that you want to no longer be one of Jehovahs witnesses, Leaving... then perhaps it is fear that allows you only to whisper these words, and fear that stops you from speaking them OUT LOUD. Either way, if you want the truth to this question, then ask Christ to give you that truth. Understand that truth is not always easy to hear, but when we see where we might be lacking, we can then see (and hear) what we need to DO.




May you be granted ears to hear the Spirit and the bride say to YOU, "COME... and take the free gift of the water of Life."

Peace and much love to you my brother,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Oh no you misunderstand, dear LQ (peace to you, dear brother! ): yes, I heard while I was still in... but I did not know Who it was that was SPEAKING... UNTIL... I knew I was going to LEAVE the WTBTS. I KNEW I had to leave... get out... but I didn't know Who I had to get out FOR... UNTIL I left. I had known... for a LONG time... who I was... but I didn't have that CONFIRMED... by holy spirit FROM my dear Lord... UNTIL I QUIT touching that harlot... unclean thing that she is.

Yes, I heard a "voice" while I was in. But I didn't know WHO SE voice it WAS... until he revealed himself to me... and that wasn't until I WAS out. Not literally, yet, because he said I couldn't leave but had to be "expelled." That I HAD to share with them the things he was giving me... and that as a result they would CAST me out.

But I... was out. I would have left sooner had I not had HIS work to do, FIRST.

But for you... this, dear brother:



I can't think of a better way to say it. Except maybe some of the words of the Ethiopian eunuch. To wit:

"What... PREVENTS... YOU?"

You need to do some soul-searching, dear brother. Actually, some SPIRIT searching. Because, for all intents and purposes, it could be a "greater love"... that stands in the WAY of your hearing the Way.

Because THAT One said:

"Get OUT of her..."

He ALSO said, though:

"He that has GREATER love... for" you fill in the blank... "THAN for ME... is NOT... WORTHY... of ME."

Surely... SURELY... you've read that. Do you HEAR that, though??

THAT is the question you need to consider, dear one.

As always, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Sorry for my delay in responding. I took a day to ponder all of this.

I've had to ask myself what it is that's holding me back. I still don't know the answer. I don't think it's fear for what life will be like after leaving. I believe it's the fear of confrontation. I am asking for courage to get past this.