xjwsforChrist

I am writing this down for my research notes and wanted to run it by you all. It differs both from what WTBTS teaches and from what scholars teach. Scholars teach that the "little flock" are Jews and that the "other sheep" are Gentiles. I don't see it quite that way. But, I could totally be wrong. Please review and comment. Thanks in advance!



The Society links the “little flock” of Luke 12:32 to the 144,000. This is done on the basis of the number 144,000 being relatively small compared to a “great crowd”. However, the Bible does not make this link at all. When Christ called those he was talking to a “little flock”, we have to remember whom he was sent to the earth for. “I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel,” he said. (Matt 15:24). This, too, ended up being a relatively small number. Just before Christ was captured to be killed, he said this in prayer to his Father: “I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do.” Thus, his work of gathering the “little flock” was complete.

In John 10:16, we have another term, “other sheep”, which the Society links with the “great crowd”. While it very well may be a great crowd, we have no reason to think that the little flock represents the 144,000 and the other sheep represents the great crowd. It makes more sense that the little flock represents those whom Christ was sent for, the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and the other sheep would be those who come after, including Gentiles. Why can we say this?

Just before talking about the other sheep, Christ gives a parable of a shepherd, whom he identifies as himself. Notice what he says happens: “He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice.” (John 10:3, 4) Note, especially, this part: “when he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them.” When does this occur? “In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be. And where I am going, you know the way.” (John 14:2-4) Here, Christ was discussing his impending death and resurrection and his going away to heaven. In his saying, “going my way to prepare a place for you,” this would be the shepherd going ahead of the sheep. The sheep follow him later.

Thus, the little flock Christ spoke of are those of the lost sheep of the house of Israel that were gathered BEFORE he gave his life as a ransom sacrifice. Once he did that, the work he assigned his apostles was to gather more disciples, other sheep. These would ultimately become part of “one flock”. (John 10:16).

The “other sheep” are not limited to just Gentiles. We can say that because of what Paul wrote in Romans 11. This chapter deals with an illustration of an olive tree with the branches being natural Israelites. Some branches were cut off due to a lack of faith, and wild branches were grafted in in their place. The wild branches represent Gentiles who put faith in Christ. Verses 23 and 24 show that those who are natural Israelites would, if they repent of their lack of faith, be grafted back in. Being that this grafting back in occurs after Christs’ death, and thus after his gathering of the “little flock”, these would also make up “other sheep”. Thus, the “other sheep” would include any who are Gentiles and those of natural Israel who repent of their lack of faith.

Greetings, dear LQ... and peace to you! BRAVO for you! Your assertions are accurate, with one exception:

The "little flock" is not Israel, but the Jews (who receive him when he came in the flesh). The "other sheep" are the Gentiles, which INCLUDES the other 10-tribes (of Israel). Gentiles are not non-Israelites, but non-Jews. Hence, the Samaritan woman (the only non-Jewish Israelite recorded to have accepted him)... and Cornelius (a Samaritan) were "Gentiles" (which is why the Jews did not associate with them, although they were also Israel).

At the time he addressed the "little flock", ONLY the Jews were being called ("Salvation belongs to the Jews")... because they were the seed of David. AFTER the Jews ("Judea"), THEN it was the other 10-tribes ("Samaria")... THEN non-Israelite nations:

"You will be witnesses to me in all Judea and Samaria... and to the ends of the earth."

Hence, Cornelius was deemed "clean" and his household called FIRST from "Samaria" (the Samaritan woman did not receive holy spirit when she put faith in our Lord - that outpouring didn't occur until Pentecost, starting with JEWS - Acts 2:1-12; 38-42), and then it was "opened" to people of EVERY nation, tribe, and tongue... along WITH the Jews and Samaritans (Israel).

So, the "little flock" is not the 144,000 (because that group is made up of people from among the 12 tribes; well, two for Joseph, none for Dan, but still...), nor it is the lost sheep of "Israel," per se, but only lost sheep of that house that were Jews.

The "other sheep... not of [that] fold" (the very small fold of Jews who accepted him BEFORE his death) includes both Jews AND Gentiles, including Gentiles that are non-Jewish Israelites (i.e., "Samaria").

The reason he said that salvation would come through the Jews... is the all of the Apostles... were Jews. And it to them he made the promise:

"You will sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel."

Those 12 tribes, then, will owe THEIR salvation... to the apostles. NOT that those died for them, but because power of judging has been given them. They WON'T judge, though, praise JAH, but will do what the Son does: turn that judging over to the One to Whom it TRULY belongs. As ALL of the king/priests will do. Having learned humility from the SON... they will NOT usurp from the FATHER what is rightfully HIS and His alone ("Vengeance is MINE").

This is WHY such ones are GIVEN such privilege: just like the Son, who didn't TAKE his authority, but waited until it was granted him, yet STILL didn't execute it, but gave it BACK to the Father to execute, these who learn from the Son do the same thing. And so, by means of THEIR mercy... which gives the judging of Israel BACK to Christ... and HIS mercy... because HE gives it back to JAH... Who is MERCIFUL... "all Israel will be saved." Even... those who pierced our dear Lord and persecuted the Prophets, our first century brothers, and all others sent to them.

I hope that helps!

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Ah, thanks for that! Even though I know now because Christ has taught me that the Jews are not the whole nation of Israel - I did not fully apply that so as to see that the Samaritans would have been considered Gentiles, even though they too are Israel. I think I knew gentile meant non-jew, but somehow just accepted that in this case non-jew just meant non-Israelite. But this of course is BASED on the thinking that Jews are all of Israel. So I guess I didn't throw everything out that was connected to that false teaching after all, when I learned the truth from my Lord.


If gentile means non-jew - then Samaritans (who are also Israel) are gentiles.

Its pretty interesting to see how much can get 'muddied up' and hidden over, based on this false assumption that the Jews are all Israel. Even MORE interesting, and exciting, to see how much becomes CLEAR with the truth!

I feel like I need to give my head a shake; stop dozing off (into complacency)!


I also read something else on here earlier that Shelby had shared about 'sheep pens' that helped me understand and may help you too Leaving, as Christ wrote here:

"I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also."

So that THIS sheep pen was the pen of the Jews (and their system of worship?), and then those who are not from that sheep pen, whom Christ would also call... would be all the other nations besides the Jews, including the Samaritans and all the rest.




Thanks Leaving for the thread!

Peace to you both,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

So, Christ was sent "to the lost sheep of the house of Israel," as he told the Phoenician woman. To me, this would include the Jews and the Samaritans. So, while initially withholding from the Phoenician woman, he did not to the same with the Samaritan woman. With her, he struck up a conversation, and told her, "Salvation begins with the Jews". BTW, I'm not sure how this should be translated properly. You said "Salvation belongs to the Jews." The Greek reads "Salvation is of the Jews". The word for "of" is "ek", which means "from out", "out from among" or "from". This, according to HELPS Word Studies, is one of the most under-translated / mis-translated prepositions, and that it has a two-layered meaning, "out from and to". It's an interesting phrase, to be sure. I digress...

The difference is that he was talking with a Samaritan woman, even initiating the conversation, indicating that Samaritans were part of that house of Israel that he was sent to, but he told her outright that it was the Jews that had the privileged position of salvation coming from them. At least that's what I'm gathering.

You said the "little flock" was not Israel, but Jews. I think I can concede that, hesitatingly. The context in Luke 12 was that he was at first addressing a large crowd. We know this because in verse 1, it says: "In the meantime, when a crowd of so many thousands had gathered together that they were stepping on one another, he started by saying first to his disciples..." So, there were thousands there, and he started talking only to his disciples at first. In verse 13, it says: "Then someone in the crowd said to him..." But, in verse 22, the audience changes back to his disciples. "Then he said to his disciples..." It was, therefore, to his disciples alone that he said, in verse 32: "Have no fear, little flock..."

Of course, Peter questioned who was being address in verse 41: "Lord, are you telling this illustration just to us or also to everyone?" That question was never directly answered.

So, let me see if I have this straight:
The "little flock" are the Jews who put faith in Christ before his death. The "other sheep" are non-Jewish Israelites and other Gentiles who put faith in Christ before and after his death.

Yes?

Of course, as Tammy so gently reminded me about the sheep pen, it matters not which group we are part of, only that both the little flock and other sheep hear his voice and follow him. Leave it to groups like WTBTS to muddy this up unnecessarily.

Wait, I think I messed up.... and I am confusing myself. I don't mean to confuse anyone else!

The little flock that Christ spoke to were those Jews who He was speaking to then and there; but He had more to call than just these ones (other sheep)... and those would include everyone yet to BE called by Christ: Jews and Gentiles (samaritans and all other nations).



Sorry if I confused anyone else with my 'sheep pen' thoughts. I think I confused that with something else.




Peace again!

Lol, well, even though I think I confused the issue... yes. The sheep (regardless of which sheep pen) all enter through CHRIST, hearing HIM, and following His voice. The two - Jew and Gentile - become one, in Christ.

You know what? I think I should just stop typing now, because I am so tired and so not clear-headed!


Peace to you leaving,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

As I laid awake early this morning, I pondered this quite a bit more and have a new theory. It's bold. It goes against all conventional thought on this matter. Ready?

The "little flock" and the "other sheep" have nothing to do with each other, per se.

Let me explain.

First, the phrase "little flock" is used when Christ is addressing his disciples, even though thousands of people were around them. We know this because Luke 12:22 says, "Then he said to his disciples..." After addressing his disciples as "little flock", he told them an illustration about having their lamps burning, waiting for their master's return. (Verses 35-40). Then, in verse 41, Peter asks: "Lord, are you telling this illustration just to us or also to everyone?" Peter understood that Christ was talking directly to the disciples, thus the phrase "just to us". However, Peter wondered if it applied also to the thousands in the crowd around him. That question never really got answered.

From this, I surmise that the phrase "little flock" applies directly to the disciples THEN PRESENT when Christ was talking. It did NOT apply to the thousands in the crowd around. This phrase has NO BEARING on us today.

What about "other sheep"? When this term was used, it was in completely different circumstances. Christ was not comparing other sheep to a little flock. Not at all. He was instead describing a different flock altogether. The SIZE of the flock was not part of the comparison. Where the sheep came from was.

"He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice." (John 10:3,4)

First through the door are HIS OWN SHEEP. After that will be sheep that were then NOT HIS OWN, but will BECOME HIS. THESE are the "other sheep". "They will become one flock, one shepherd". (John 10:16)

So, "little flock" has no relation to "other sheep". "Little flock" was simply a phrase used to describe the disciples then present when Christ was speaking to them.

Does this mean that his own sheep are not a little flock? No. All I'm saying is that these two phrases are so often used together as some sort of comparison, but when reading carefully, I realize that they are not part of the comparison at all. The comparison is who Christ's own sheep are at first, then other sheep come who becomes his later.

Thoughts?

I'm all "ears," dear one (mornin' and peace to you!)... as to what you have to share on this matter AND what our dear Lord might share - LOLOL!



I am hearing different, though. There are many times when our dear Lord was asked something... and did not (directly) respond. Many times, it was so that the one hearing could draw the conclusion. That such one could THINK... in line with OTHER things he said... versus him responding. That is what occurred here. Your position is that he didn't respond to Peter because he WAS just meaning Peter and those with him. Is it possible, though, that he didn't respond... because of the plethora of questions saying he was NOT just speaking about those ones would evoke? Imagine: he is speaking to a group of Jews... to whom he would have to explain his calling/acceptance of GENTILES, also! First, some from the other 10-tribes (who the Jews pretty much considered defiled and sworn enemies at this time), THEN from the non-Israelite nations (who ARE unclean/defiled, at least according to the Law). How would those present have reacted to that?! Do you recall how he got PETER to accept the news? And WHEN?

Dear one, had he told them THAT... that there were others, including non-Jews/Israelites... at THAT time... they WOULD have been stumbled! They would have concluded that the priests and Pharisees were RIGHT... that he WAS an imposter and against God.. and so even THESE would have gone off and stopped following him. So, he COULDN'T tell Peter/them that it applied to more than just them. He did not clarify... OUT OF LOVE. Because even then would have stumbled at the truth he would have told them. He told them, though, did he not:

"I am many things to tell you, but YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO BEAR THEM yet."


They would NOT have been able to bear that information. At least, not before they received HOLY SPIRIT... the "FRUIT" of which... is LOVE. Prior to that event, they didn't HAVE (enough) love... to welcome any non-Jews. Indeed, when they DID accept them, many of them tried to put such ones under Law! Tried to make them get circumcised, etc. So, he couldn't have responded to Peter. Why? As he said (to ME):

"If you can't say what is TRUE... say nothing at all!"

He said nothing... at all. But let's continue...



This is TRUE, yes!



But you miss something VERY important here, luv, and that's his words as to the "other sheep". He said of THEM:

"I HAVE other sheep not of this fold."

Or perhaps:

"There are other sheep which belong to me that are not in this sheep pen."

In either case, such sheep ARE ALSO his... yes? Because he didn't say, "I WILL have other sheep..." or "There are other sheep that WILL belong to me..." yes?

So, "little flock" has no relation to "other sheep". "Little flock" was simply a phrase used to describe the disciples then present when Christ was speaking to them.

Good theory. Not sure it's accurate. Will address that further in a separate post and we'll see.



Sorry, but I can't agree with this. First, in light of his words (the "other sheep" were already his, too)... and second, because those who belong to Christ were chosen... even before he came. They were the Father's... and He gave them to His Son. And they include even those who came BEFORE our dear Lord came HERE in the flesh. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, the Prophets... Remember, the "foundation" of the NEW Jerusalem is the Apostles... AND the Prophets.



Yep. In my next post (which I have been working on since last night - LOLOLOL!). But I am directed not to post that... at least until you've had a chance to read this and (perhaps) reconsider the "theory" stated HERE (as to whether the other sheep belongs to Christ when he spoke the words at issue).

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

LOL! I said it was a "theory", right?


Ah, yes.... I did miss that. You got me there.

Ok. Well, that shoots that theory.

I am still questioning whether there is any relation between Luke 12:32 and John 10:16. For some reason, I'm thinking there isn't because it's not the size of the flock that was being compared in John 10. And it's this small vs. large that puts the WTBTS onto the track of 144,000 vs. a great crowd. Without the size comparison in the mix, there is no reason for differentiating the two groups based on size. That's my thinking anyway.

Of course, logically speaking, the number of Jews vs. the number of Gentiles is smaller. But, when you mix them all together, just like mixing sheep from two different flocks into one flock, unless you tag them or have some other way of identifying them, you wouldn't be able to tell which is originally from which flock. (Except for that one black sheep. LOL!) The owner/shepherd would, though, because the shepherd knows his sheep. But when they're in one fold, one pen, it's not like they are going to be separated to different corners of the pen based on their origin. They're all mixed in together.

You may be wondering why I'm zooming in on this topic. The reason is that doctrine of the 144,000 is THE GLUE that holds the entire JW theological structure together. I know the doctrine is bunk, but I want to make sure I'm looking at it from every possible angle. Without this doctrine, the entire JW theological structure comes down like a house of cards. JW theology could survive, I think, even if 1914 were to eventually go away, but they could never survive if there was no separation of 144,000 from the great crowd, or little flock from the other sheep. It is this one doctrine that enables/allows them to force people to deny the Christ by not partaking. Take this doctrine away, and that power is gone. In all my studying and researching for the past couple of years, it always comes back to this one. single. doctrine.

I'm looking forward to the post you've been preparing. I'm sure I'll learn something good.

First, you are right, dear LQ (peace to you!), re salvation coming out of/through the Jews. That was my meaning but I chose my words poorly. It comes out/through them first through Christ... then through the Apostles (all of whom were Jews) because of the work and privileges given them.

As for what our dear Lord said to the Samaritan woman, I refer to your inclusion of the Phoenician woman: although sent only to Israel, this woman showed more faith than Israel, and particularly the Jews. But think on this: he said he was sent ONLY to the children of Israel; yet... he helped her. Under the LAW, that may have been construed as disobedience, yes? And so, if anyone was really listening to what he SAID, it would appear that in helping her he had DISOBEYED GOD and "transgressed" the Law (by overstepping JAH's command to him). Because he "went" to/helped someone who was NOT a child of Israel. BUT... he didn't transgress the Law: he SURPASSED it. With love ("I WANT to")... which there is NO law "against."

Yet, while woman received help (in the form of help for her daughter)... she did not herself receive an outpouring of HOLY SPIRIT... by means of which she would have been anointed/chosen... and the accompanying indwelling of JAH and Christ.

Nor did the Samaritan woman at the time our dear Lord spoke with HER (which could also have been construed as another transgression, both women being deemed "unclean" according to the Law). Yet, she WAS Israel. SHE didn't, though, because it was to the JEWS who put faith in him FIRST that the way was opened.

And so it was the disciples then present, yes, whom our Lord was referring to as the "little flock"... AS WELL AS ALL the Jews who put faith in him that were IN JERUSALEM when he poured out holy spirit. ALL of THESE received the promised holy spirit FIRST, as shown at John 7:37-39; 20:22; Acts 2:1-12, 36-42

This was in fulfillment of his words to his disciples/apostles that:

"You will be witnesses of me in IN JERUSALEM..."

Some of these, however, had not put faith in him when he spoke the words. His fleshly brothers, James and Jude, would have been among these. Yet, they would be part of the little flock in that they would be FIRST of the FIRSTFRUITS: the Jews from among ALL Israel FIRST.

Acts 6:7; Romans 8:23; 11:16; James 1:1, 18; 2 Thessolonians 2:13; Revelation 14:4

Hence, it was next to the Jews who were in Judea (but NOT in Jerusalem), as the Apostles, James, Jude, and others (who were present either with Christ himself or at Pentecost) went out to call these. These were NEXT... because they were JEWS... and so they too were of the "little flock" and their calling fulfillment of:

"... in all JUDEA..."

After THAT, Peter was told to stop calling unclean what our dear Lord was now calling clean... and as a result, HE was then able to go and assist Cornelius, a Samaritan and thus non-Jewish Israelite. This was in fulfillment of his words:

"and SAMARIA..."

Thus, the Way (Christ, the Door/Narrow Gate) was next opened to the other 10-tribes (that opening STARTED with Peter's reassuring the JEWISH Body that the Door/Way WAS opened, by means of the vision and direction our dear Lord had given HIM. And since Peter was of those who had received the "keys" to the kingdom, no one could... or did... object. Those "keys", by the way, are faith, mercy, and love... and ALL of the Apostles received them, not just Peter. ALL of them had authority... "keys"... to allow others "in". Their faith, mercy, and love is what "turned" (as in turning a key) and "opened" the "Door" that is Christ. I digress.).

Then, once CORNELIUS was brought in, as part of the "Way" now being opened BEYOND the Jews... others who were NEITHER Jew NOR Samaritan were brought in.

"And to the ends of earth."

And here is where Paul came in. Since our dear Lord was only sent to the children of Israel, the Apostles focused on Jews and Samaritans. It was Paul who went primarily to the non-ISRAELITE Gentiles. Note, Paul's words "there is neither Jew nor Greek" is a bit misleading, though. Because there were JEWISH Greeks. What he MEANT was that there was neither Jew ("Israel" because remember, by this time the Jews considered only themselves as "Israel" and so for them the term "Jew" was synonymous with "Israel")... nor GENTILE (i.e., people who did not worship according to the Jewish customs and traditions, INCLUDING the Samaritan/other Israelite tribes - remember, THEY stopped worshipping at the temple, etc., when the tribes split after Solomon's reign - John 4:11, 12, 19, 20). He meant including non-JEWISH Gentile.

He made this distinction because many Israelites, including Jews, had adopted Greek ways, including the language and customs. This caused a division within Israel way back to the days of the Jews exile in Babylon. Remember, it was after that that the Septuagint (the Hebrew writings translated to Greek) was written. Yet, even our dear Lord had a problem with that translation ("Woe to you, scribes... hypocrites!"). Adopting the ways of the Greeks was partially to blame for the Jews unfaithfulness once Jerusalem was restored. They now had synagogues and other customs/traditions they hadn't had prior to exile in Babylon (this is one reason our Lord held to Aramaic, as did the Apostles - they personally rejected the Greek culture).

Consider, though: had our dear Lord only meant those with him when coined the term "little flock," (1) he would have responded to Peter's question as he would have had nothing to withhold, and (2) that would have actually been a TINY flock.

But the Jews who are the "little flock" consist of only 24,000 out of... how many? Out of 144,000... and so 1/6th... if we only count that group. We must count the ENTIRE flock of "other sheep", though... and we don't know that number except that it's "great." Vast. So, 24,000 out of 120,000 plus another "multitude"... well, that would constitute a little flock, in comparison, yes?

And so the WTBTS is in error: the "little flock " is NOT the 144,000 in comparison to the "great crowd," but the JEWS who put faith in and belong to him... in comparison to ALL who put faith in and belong to him. Out of ALL of his sheep.

This is the understanding given me by my Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH ( MischaJah )... and I, SA, share it with you just as I received it from him.

I hope this helps!

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

So the little flock is the Jews who put faith in and belong to Christ (the 24000 - two tribes worth)... and the other sheep are everyone else who put faith in and belong to Christ?


Am I understanding what you have shared here correctly?


Peace to you,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

I need to correct/clarify this (peace to you, all!): the "little flock" are ALL Jews (Judah and Benjamin) who put faith in the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... starting with (1) who put faith in Christ when he was here in the flesh, (2) those who were Jerusalem just after the outpouring of holy spirit and put faith in him based on that, (3) those who put faith in him from Judea, after the outpouring of Pentecost but simultaneous with the calling of the Gentiles, and (4) those who put faith in him until the "Door" is closed.

They are NOT, however, those Jewish people (notice, I didn't say Jews; there's a difference) who put faith in "Jesus" (i.e., "Messianic" Jews). There is no "Jesus" and the name "Jesus" does not reflect the name of God, JaHVeH. Such ones, then, are not (YET) saying, "Blessed is he that comes in the name of JAH/God." They are also not those Jews who become part of the "great crowd" OR those Jews who receive life in the second resurrection.

They are a set number (12,000 each from Judah and Benjamin), just as the 7,000 men held over in Elijah's day were a set number. Their number was not filled during the 1st century, though - it is filled over time, until Christ returns (as are the numbers of the other tribes). But the "Way" was opened to the Jews FIRST, then to the "Samaritans", then to the rest of the world's nations, tribes, tongues, and peoples.

Paul also suggests that, of those of the nations, although grafted in this not necessarily permanent. That is true: only those "from among the sons of Israel" are SEALED. Those of the non-Israelite nations must make THEIR calling and choosing "sure." Because THEY can be grafted back OUT. Once sealed, though, those from Israel cannot be grafted out. That is the PURPOSE of the "sealing" (along with the "mark" that names them AS from Israel).

But that's not hard to understand: the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, KNOWS a (wo)man... what is TRULY IN THEM... WHEN He seals them. He KNOWS what they will/will not "do." And so, when they are sealed, they are already known to not be the kind that will turn back, deny Him or Christ, blaspheme, lie, etc. Because at the time they are sealed they either of those who never had such issues to deal with... or have already conquered such tendencies, having been trained by Christ. They have already proven their integrity and themselves as sons of JAH... some having done so when they were yet children but perhaps having other things to work out (anger, jealousy, fear, competition, etc.).

There are many scriptures/verses that help us see this but I won't post them. Rather, I will appeal to you to ASK... for YOURSELF... as to where they are... and let Christ himself guide you to them. (Luke 24:32, 45)

I hope this helps!

Peace to you, all!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Of those who fill that number (24,000), yes, dear tec (mornin' and peace to you, luv!). They the first(fruits) of the firstfruits... Israel who "did not defile themselves with women" and "in whose mouth there was found no falsehood." Revelation 14:4, 5 And note, they are NOT men who never had sex with women (oh, Lordy! What folks who believe THAT, translate the verses to THAT don't know!). They are those who did not commit SPIRITUAL "adultery"... ONCE they were washed CLEAN and made VIRGINS... by the blood of Christ. "Virgins" so that they "belonged" to no one ELSE... no OTHER "man"... and so COULD be joined to HIM (in marriage).

Those "women" are harlots... those who CLAIMS to belong to Christ, but commit fornication with OTHER [husbands] by following THEIR laws. They are the "daughters" of BTG, the "Mother of the HARLOTS." When a (wo)man joins themselves to a harlot, they become unclean by means of that joining.

ALL have become unclean... by following ANYONE other than Christ. When Christ CLEANSES them, though, with HIS blood, they are returned to a "virgin" state, as if they had never been sullied at all. That's because HIS blood covers/blots out ALL error... and so such ones become "white" in the eyes of God, so that they can (1) stand before Him, and, when Christ grants them, (2) receive the "white robe," that is the SPIRIT body.

My apologies if I confused anyone. I misstated who the "Jews" were earlier.

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Off to work... but just wanted to let you know I hear you and thanks!


Peace again!

Ok, let me get this straight.

The "little flock" are Jews, but not just Jews that put faith in Christ before he died. Specifically, they are Jews of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, and only numbering 24,000 (12,000 each). It doesn't matter what time period these Jews live in... just that they make up this number. It also doesn't matter if there are more than 24,000 from those two tribes, the "little flock" is limited to 24,000. Is that what you're saying?

I go back to the "little flock" vs. "other sheep". You said:


If I understand correctly, the "other sheep" are composed of anyone not a Jew, including the other 10 tribes of Israel and the Gentiles.

And, if I understand correctly, the "little flock" and "other sheep" aren't really part of the same comparison as one deals with size while the other deals with ethnicity.




I have a question here and it's concerning "only those "from among the sons of Israel" are SEALED". Paul talks quite a bit about sealing, but he was sent to the nations, non-Israelites. For example, Eph 1:13,14: "After you believed, you were sealed by means of him with the promised holy spirit, which is a token in advance of our inheritance, for the purpose of releasing God’s own possession by a ransom, to his glorious praise."

Wouldn't this indicate that non-Israelites can be sealed, too?