xjwsforChrist

I keep hearing about the book of Enoch but its not in the bible I have. Is it a actual account or is it questionable about the account he writes about.

An few chapters are quoted below that I have never heard of such as the names of the fallen angels and what they brought to the earth.

Chapter 7 [SECT. II.]

1. It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

2. And when the angels, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.

3. Then their leader Samyaza said to them; I fear that you may perhaps be indisposed to the performance of this enterprise;

4. And that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime.

5. But they answered him and said; We all swear;

6. And bind ourselves by mutual execrations, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking.

7. Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of mount Armon.

8. That mountain therefore was called Armon, because they had sworn upon it, and bound themselves by mutual execrations.

9. These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danel, Azkeel, Saraknyal, Asael,
Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Arazyal. These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them.

10. Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.

11. And the women conceiving brought forth giants,

12. Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labour of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;

13. When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;

14. And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.

15. Then the earth reproved


Chapter 8


1. Moreover Azazyel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and of all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.

2. Impiety increased; fornication multiplied; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.

3. Amazarak taught all the sorcerers, and dividers of roots:

4. Armers taught the solution of sorcery;

5. Barkayal taught the observers of the stars;

6. Akibeel taught signs;

7. Tamiel taught astronomy;

8. And Asaradel taught the motion of the moon.

9. And men, being destroyed, cried out; and their voice reached to heaven


Chapter 9


1. Then Michael and Gabriel, Raphael, Suryal, and Uriel, looked down from heaven, and saw the quantity of blood which was shed on earth, and all the iniquity which was done upon it, and said one to another, It is the voice of their cries;

2. The earth deprived of her children has cried even to the gate of heaven.

3. And now to you, O ye holy ones of heaven, the souls of men complain, saying, Obtain Justice for us with 1 the Most High. Then they said to their Lord, the King, Thou art Lord of lords, God of gods, King of kings. The throne of thy glory is for ever and ever, and for ever and ever is thy name sanctified and glorified. Thou art blessed and glorified.

4. Thou hast made all things; thou possessest power over all things; and all things are open and manifest before thee. Thou beholdest all things, and nothing, can be concealed from thee.

5. Thou hast seen what Azazyel has done, how he as taught every species of iniquity upon earth, and has disclosed to the world all the secret things which are done in the heavens.

6. Samyaza also has taught sorcery, to whom thou hast given authority over those who are associated with him. They have gone together to the daughters of men; have lain with them; have become polluted;

7. And have discovered crimes to them.

8. The women likewise have brought forth giants.

9. Thus has the whole earth been filled with blood and with iniquity.

10. And now behold the souls of those who are dead, cry out.

11. And complain even to the gate of heaven.

12. Their groaning ascends; nor can they escape from the unrighteousness which is committed on earth. Thou knowest all things, before they exist.

13. Thou knowest these things, and what has been done by them; yet thou dost not speak to us.

14. What on account of these things ought we to do to them?

Chapter 64 [SECT. XI.]


1. In those days Noah saw that the earth became inclined, and that destruction approached.

2. Then he lifted up his feet, and went to the ends of the earth, to the dwelling of his great-grandfather Enoch.

3. And Noah cried with a bitter voice, Hear me; hear me; hear me: three times. And he said, Tell me what is transacting upon earth; for the earth labours, and is violently shaken. Surely I shall perish with it.

4. After this there was a great perturbation on earth, and a voice was heard from heaven. I fell down on my face, when my great-grandfather Enoch came and stood by me.

5. He said to me, Why hast thou cried out to me with a bitter cry and lamentation?

6. A commandment has gone forth from the Lord against those who dwell on the earth, that they may be destroyed; for they know every secret of the angels, every oppressive and secret power of the devils, and every power of those who commit sorcery, as well as of those who make molten images in the whole earth.

7. They know how silver is produced from the dust of the earth, and how on the earth the metallic drop exists; for lead and tin are not produced from earth, as the primary fountain of their production.

8. There is an angel standing upon it, and that angel struggles to prevail.

9. Afterwards my great-grandfather Enoch seized me with his hand, raising me up, and saying to me, Go, for I have asked the Lord of spirits respecting this perturbation of the earth; who replied, On account of their impiety have their innumerable judgments been consummated before me. Respecting the moons have they inquired, and they have known that the earth will perish with those who dwell upon it, and that to these there will be no place of refuge for ever.

10. They have discovered secrets, and they are those who have been judged; but not thou, my son. The Lord of spirits knows that thou art pure and good, free from the reproach of discovering secrets.

11. He, the holy One, will establish thy name in the midst of the saints, and will preserve thee from those who dwell upon the earth. He will establish thy seed in righteousness, with dominion and great glory; 1 and from thy seed shall spring forth righteous and holy men without number for ever.

Lead and tin are not from earth?? why is learning how to use elements and create things a sin.

That's some fascinating stuff.



Wouldn't that be about 450 feet tall? I once worked in a building that tall - had to change elevators to get to my floor. The dinosaurs had nothing on them. lol.

300 cubits seems a bit of a impossibility or far fetched. I was thinking they would be maybe 10 feet tall but not 450. Geez

Science Fiction of the old times!

I couldn't respond earlier because I had no idea, dear Zoe (mornin' and peace to you!). I knew there are writings by Enoch, but I wasn't sure whether what we have today constitute those and/or are accurate. And so, after reading this thread, I asked if it was time FOR me/us to know. I didn't hear, until just this morning. I did not hear that it WAS time to know, but what I heard was this:

1. Much is inaccurate, due to the limited knowledge of the language of the time by scholars who transliterated it later (late BC) and then those who transliterated THOSE (modern). To understand what I mean, perhaps you may have seen the movie "Nell", starring Jodie Foster and Liam Neeson. In it, Neeson's character meets a young girl in a VERY remote area of Tennessee (I think) who SEEMS "retarded" due to the "language" she speaks. Turns out, she learned to speak from her mother, who had suffered a massive stroke during childbirth. Since the girl and her twin (who died as a child) had been isolated from the rest of society, their mother's altered English became their "first" language. Same here: way back then everything was based on PHONICS. SOUNDS. And so if one's personal way of speaking made an "ah" sound, where another's made an "aah" or "oh" sound, transliterations were often affected.

So, for instance, let's say it's back then and YOU were describing a bird. But because of, say, a speech impediment, YOU pronounced it "bir"... then I, translating what YOU said into a word... write "burr". Well, someone coming AFTER me will either think I mean one of those sticky things you pick up while walking in the woods... which doesn't make sense. However, he might think that MAYBE I mean "BEAR" because (1) I was obviously referring to some kind of animal/living thing, and (2) HIS regional way of pronouncing the word "bear" - where HE's from they might say "bar" or "bur" - makes a bear seem (more) reasonable.

Of course, TODAY we could be more accurate, but what we have TODAY comes from writings over 2 millenia old, which come from writings more than 2 millenia older than that! And THAT'S one of the reasons there are SO many inaccuracies in the Bible (translations) - erroneous words based on a lack of understanding the PHONICS related to the original word. Because THERE WERE NO VOWELS back then, just SOUNDS. And so, for example, the MANY errors of the Septuagint (which my Lord condemned) because of the misunderstanding of the SOUNDS made by the Phoenician/Hebrew/Aramaic words (and you must agree, "Hebrew" has a LOT of sounds... even gurgling and gutterals! LOLOL!)... which they erroneously translated into GREEK... which was then translated BACK to (a more modern form of) Hebrew! Same thing with the NT: from Aramaic, to Greek, to Latin, to Old English, to modern English. As some might say, much was "LOST in translation." I digress.

2. Much of what is attributed to Enoch in what we have TODAY as "Enoch"... was written by Noah, who added to Enoch's writings (which he tried to protect on the ark but were later lost/destroyed. The writings of both Enoch AND Noah were handed down through Noah's sons, but over time their value was considered less and less and so they were not of the utmost important when it came to protecting things from marauders/conquerors. Eventually, then, they were entirely lost/destroyed... and the accounts came be told ORALLY, which is why they are so inaccurate now: as with the "telephone" game, things changed as the accounts were told and REwritten. Although as with Isaiah, what we have today is very close to what was found with the Dead Sea Scrolls, the writings found with the Dead Sea Scrolls were inaccurate to a very worthy degree; hence what we have today is, as well.

(NOTE: For those who believe the writings of Isaiah today are accurate due to their close correlation with those found with the Dead Sea Scrolls, they forget... again, Christ took issue with the writings of the scribes of that day. Yes, he quoted from Isaiah but you will note he only quoted a very small amount. Like one verse! MUCH of Isaiah IS accurate, but not all. Hence, "Woe to you... SCRIBES!")

3. HOWEVER, just as with Isaiah, etc., there is still SOME accuracy... including the presence of giants in the days before and up to Noah. There are even writings BY such beings (the offspring of the Nephilim, those (inaccurately) named in the Book of Watchers, and human women) contained in what is known as "The Book of the Giants." There is great inaccuracy in those writings, as well, again, due to the lack of knowledge of the ancient language they were written in. For one, "giant" isn't with reference to SIZE, but to STRENGTH. These were stronger in body/flesh, being the half-breed offspring of man and spirit beings. Since they WERE such half-breeds, however, they... like Adham and like my dear Lord... could "alter" their form. Because they COULD, they CHOSE larger bodies... vessels... so as to be intimidating to humans/animals. They used their size and strength to wreak havoc upon humans AND animals, abusing and killing both.

4. The oldest translation of Enoch WAS written in Geez (the oldest Ethiopian dialect, which is still used today); however, ENOCH didn't write what he did in that language; it didn't exist during his day. Ethiopia didn't exist in his day. The closest language we have today to what Enoch spoke is the ancient Sumerian/Phoenician/Aramaic dialect, which itself is several generations removed from ancient Hebrew.


I cannot tell you, yet (if ever) where either the writings attributed to Enoch or the "Giants" are accurate/inaccurate. I've never read them or been directed to. And I didn't above yet, because I didn't want to be influenced by my OWN thinking but wanted to wait on my Lord to tell me what is "true" and what is not. And that could be the point of your question... the "reason" it has come up: perhaps the time for understanding THESE writings has arrived. I do not know, though, so I will wait on my Lord to direct me, if that's the case, and rely on him to tell me what is accurate and what is not as HE reads such TO me, if that occurs. He has never kept from me anything I SHOULD/NEED to know, so I am not concerned if I must wait. You, though, could always go to him and ask for yourself, if you are curious. Just put faith in what he TELLS you, if you choose to do so. Otherwise, don't assume you will receive anything... or that what you receive is from him (and thus, accurate). For now, I have been granted to share the above with you.

I hope it helps.

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shel

Thanks Shelby - makes sense. Enoch's writings were probably not inspired by God so did not survive in accuracy

I can't entirely agree with that, dear Zoe (peace, luv!), although I must agree with much. That a writing was inspired by JAH doesn't mean it has been found today. It does exist... somewhere... even if it's not in the Bible... or some museum. The Dead Sea scrolls existed, even before "we" found them. On the other hand, not all that HAS been found... and/or made it into the Bible... is scripture (inspired by JAH). As my dear Lord once said to me:

"All that I tell you IS written (although not in the Bible); but not all that is written (including what IS in the Bible) is what I will tell you."


He said that to help me understand the error of the scribes and why he condemned THEIR works along with that of the corrupt priests, hateful Pharisees (religious "lawyers/leaders"), false christs, and false prophets. The only way we can know for CERTAIN what IS scripture is from him. And HE said it was "Moses, the Psalms, and the Prophets." Enoch was a prophet; however, not one of the ones included in the Bible. He was Noah's great-grandfather, though, and a close descendant of Adham, so I'm sure what he wrote ORIGINALLY has merit. We just shouldn't assume that what we HAVE... is what he WROTE. Or even what Noah wrote (accurately).

I hope that helps!

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shel

Okay I understand. What a shame we don't have the whole story and only bits of it.

I am doing a project right now on Ancestry.com. OMG just to find information of my great great great grandparents or going back 200 years is very difficult never mind 1000's of years.

I can't find records of my great great grandparents in Germany but found records of great great great grandparents in Scotland. so I guess it just depends on who kept records.

Often, yes (peace to you!). In these cases that... as well as who "translated" them!

Peace!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

I did a paper on the Book Of Enoch, more specifically 1Enoch the book of watchers.
It was "inspired" enough for Jude and Peter to quote passages from it in their letters.

Much of what is written in 1Enoch is echoed in the OT.

Why is it not part of the bible? well...lest just say that not everyone was comfortable with EVERYONE having certain knowledge.
Don't forget that Revelation for quite some time was NOT of public domain ( some even wanted it out of the bible because it was the "ravings of a madman").

See, here is the thing:
Enoch openly states who the Sons of God in Genesis 6 are, Angels that left their home to mate with human women.
Many scholars are very uncomfortable with that and came up with the view that the sons of God are human from the line of Seth or humans of "reknown".
BUT that fact is the Genesis and the rest of the OT makes it clear that when Sons Of God are mentioned it refers to angels ( either "fallen" or of the divine council").

BUT some people didn't like the notion of "hybrid" humans, part angel, part human, with "super powers", too much like the mythology of pagan cultures, know what I mean?

That is was 1Enoch got "left behind".

The reality though is that in the bible, these hybrid humans are spoke about as giants ( some like the king Og were over 13 ft tall, his bed is spoken of in Deuteronomy 3:11) and they survived the flood, as we can see by Joshua's description of them in Numbers 13:3 ( the nephilim).
There are a few races mentioned in the bible that were giants and decendent of the giants, the Nephilim.

That is very interesting Paul. Thank you for that explanation.

I find the idea of angels mating with humans fascinating. And Giants Wow!!!

I have this book called Angels and Women which was sent to me by a exJW named Jim Rizoli about 12 years ago. He was one of the first people I was in contact with when I found out TTATT
He rewrote it after finding the original story in a estate. I can't remember the details but the book is written in fiction about a girl living in that time and how the Angels picked her out. Her parents hid her for years because they were afraid of them taking her as she was very beautiful.

The book at amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Angels-Women-Jim-Rizoli/dp/0595005160/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1406041984&sr=1-1&keywords=angels+and+women

There is a view that states that all the other gods that we have in the bible ( and there are other gods) and through out world mythologies are either fallen angels passing themselves off as gods or hybrids. Some believe that this is where vampires and werewolves and such came from.
There are mentions of "vampires" in the OT, like the "succubus" and Lilith the night hag.
Note the thirst for blood that so many pagan gods had...

The OT notes that God, YHWH, is the supreme god, the GOD of the gods, that these lesser gods are all trying to take worship and glory from Him.
There is also a view that God gave the 70 nations to these 70 "lesser gods" (ie angels) and kept Israel to Himself.
In Daniel it is mentioned about the prince of Persia that tried to keep the angel giving Daniel the message away, until the prince of Israel, Michael, helped him.
Prince being the term used for the angels in question.

Another views states that to Satan was given Rome and that when Jesus spoke that the whole world was under the rule of Satan what He meant was the whole world as per the understanding of His audience -
Rome was the world, the Roman empire was viewed as being the whole world and that is why Paul viewed that his preaching the gospel in Spain would equal spreading the gospel to the ends of the world.
So, Satan being the angel to which Rome was given was the real ruler of that world, the world of the Roman Empire which, to the audience of the time, was the whole world.

I am wondering if that was their take on it then or if the world Rome was really given to Satan?? It is all very intriguing but without these Gods being tangible its all a mystery open to interpretation.