xjwsforChrist

ATALOA SAID

Well I hope you're allowed to post it and soon; I want to know about the water binding the spirits and the four winds; all of it really. And it would be so helpful to have it all on one thread.

Thanks for sharing with us that you felt fear and gave in to it, Shelby.

CHARIKLO SAID

BUT... I did not stick to that. I started including scriptures and verses... because I thought folks wouldn't believe me and say I was making it all up and then leaving them hanging. And so I put my fear... before my Lord's voice.

For me, Shelby, just as one member of this forum, only one, but for me you do not need to include such scripture references. By and large, too many references make me glaze over...too reminiscent of my (thankfully very brief, but very painful!) JW days.

Just in case it helps.

As I read your post there just now, this came to me...You mentioned diamonds. Large or small, diamonds are formed under conditions of great pressure and great heat, and thus fire comes into it. For us, pressure and fire in the abstract, in a metaphysical sense, may come to us, unwanted, unsought, in any number of ways.

This is the thought that came to me as I read your post prayerfully.

AGUEST SAID


your post is clear, dear Char... and thank both you AND dear Ataloa (peace to you both!) for your kind words. They do help. You have also helped me remember more of what our dear Lord gave me, dear Char, by including this comment:



There is even more to that, dear one: think of, as you said, the great pressure... and HEAT (energy/fire!)... it takes to form an earthly gem. Then consider how the Adversary (and Mischa'El/Michael) appear (it was noted by Ezekiel). NOW think of the "great pressure and great heat (energy)" it would have taken to form just these two... these two SPIRIT beings... who appear as if encrusted with every KIND of gem! And in, what, seconds? Versus the million of years we THINK it takes for form such in the earth!

Not only does part of the answer of this lie in the appearance of these two... but also in the TIME period of the creation! We (humans, scientists) think it took millions of years to form our earthly gems. But... DID it?

Did it truly take so much time? Or did it take extraordinary pressure... which is a form of energy... AND extraordinary heat/fire... another form of energy... from a Source of energy of which we have NO idea (yet)?!

Can fire... and light (both of which are heat and basic forms of energy in this world)... create? Yes. As well as destroy (which we know).

So what? So, Adham's flesh came from the earth and his spirit from God. He spirit was breathed INTO him, from another source. It was not CREATED, but already there. When a spirit is DESTROYED, not only is the energy it takes to do that... far, far, beyond what we currently know of... but the energy to RE-CREATE them... them, as in more than one (Adham was only one - Eve's spirit came OUT of him!)... is far, far, beyond what we have any idea about. AND... that energy can... destroy... WHILE it creates.

Which is why the spirit beings were made FIRST. There was nothing PHYSICAL that could be destroyed in the process yet in existence.

OUR spirits are not separate entities, nor are they re-created; ALL life originated from One Source. WE received our... share... portion... bit... FROM that Source... through our parents... who received theirs from THEIR parents... all the way back from/through Adham... who received it from God... THROUGH Christ ("THROUGH whom ALL things were created").

I have shared before that Christ... is the "mother-dough"... from, through, and by means of which ALL things came into creation. My understanding is that while spirit can be destroyed, to RE-create DESTROYED spirit... is virtually impossible. I say virtually... because it can be done... but not without devastating consequences: given the amount of energy it takes TO destroy spirit... it would literally wipe out everything in existence... except JAH Himself... to re-create it. Even our dear Lord. Because of the amount of energy it would take to do it.

It would mean the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... starting completely over. Literally. With everything. From scratch. Meaning, not even with the Son yet in existence.

Like children, man should be really careful, then, when "playing" with fire. The capabilities... and dangers... associated with atomic, nuclear, and other... elementary... powers... should tell us that.

That's all I can share on that. Dear Ataloa (peace to you, as well!), I will share what I can as to what you've commented on.

Peace to you all!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

ZOE SAID

Thank you Shelby, that answered my question. I am impressed, it certainly makes sense.

I was thinking a lot of those things you mentioned from the Bible were not literal meanings but symbolic. It certainly has me thinking more on it.

Thank you again for that information and your take on it.

TEC SAID

Quote:
I was mad... well... greatly disappointed in myself... because... I didn't do "just so".


I know exactly how you feel. I have done the same. I am always so sorry and so disappointed in myself when I give in to fear (of others, of myself) instead of relying fully upon Him.

But Christ keeps helping, even with our weaknesses (as He did his disciples when he walked in the flesh), remaining faithful even when we are doubtful, and teaching us.

Peace and love to you,
tammy

[/quote]

YPPUPLLEH SAID




I question Shelby all the time
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...

CHARIKLO SAID




It's that realisation that we are not perfect, isn't it?! The good thing is, we're all in the same boat!

JUSTMOM SAID







Good morning everyone

Keep thinking about this thought from aguest as sometimes so much goes over my head (I apologize) but I was reading and came across these verses that support this thought she brought out.

In Ezekiel 37 1-11 describes Israels resurrection from "dry bones" and how life came into them. First he took "the bones" that were already there... put sinew, flesh and skin on them. There was no life yet as no "breath" yet.
Jah told ezekiel in verse 9 "Prophesy to the wind...and say From the four winds come, O wind, and BLOW upon these killed people, that they may COME TO LIFE."

So "Life" / SPIRIT/energy came from the four winds (spirit) to bring the dry bones back to life.

On the opposite side of the coin these FOUR WINDS/energy (spirit)at Revelation 7:1-4 are being held back tight until the 144,000 are sealed in their foreheads. These same FOUR WINDS are to be granted to "HARM" the earth and the sea.

Just a thought I'd share
Love justmom

JUST MOM SAID


That the energy used to create... is the SAME energy used to destroy...
and both are subject to laws that, if not recognized/adhered
to/properly utilized... can have a devastating effect... on the physical
AND spirit realms

This is the other quote Shelby used. Little more appropiate for the comment above.

Justmom

JUSTMOM SAID

When cremated, the body becomes ash. When buried, the body returns to dust, and becomes one with the soil. There is a big difference between the two. Soil is fertile, ash is not. The soil allows new growth and further life. Ash is barren and lifeless.
Turning the body to ash is unnatural. But the gradual process of returning to the soil is true to the inner meaning of death. The passing of one generation allows the sprouting of another, and the living are nourished and inspired by the legacy of the dead. Our forebears are the soil from which we sprout. Even in their death, they are a source of life.


This is a quote as to why Jews do NOT believe in cremation.

And Hitler knew this. He knew if he could utterly destroy them Jah would prove to be a liar in Ezekiel 37:11 "Son of man, as regards these BONES, they are "The WHOLE house of Israel."
Also he would be proven wrong in Romans 11:25 &26 &32 " The dulling of Israels hearts were allowed for the great crowd to come in, but he would turn his attention back to them so that ALL of them will be saved by mercy."


But Jah knows each and everyone of his seed that belongs to him and not one will be lost. I trust this and I know his mercy and love is something I cannot even comprehend. I can only have an idea of it through his son.
PRAISE JAH!!!!!!

Love Justmom

CHARIKLO SAID

Justmom, I really like that Jewish quotation. I have a very good friend who is, extraordinary as it may seem, Jewish and also a Christian. I don't know how she manages it, but that is the case.

She is, of course, Jewish by birth, and I don't know at what point in life she became Christian. However, she also very much values her Jewish roots and frequently tells me how Jewish thinking is on some issues, and how she draws wisdom from that tradition too. It gives her valuable perspective and a clearly palpable depth of understanding.

It comes to me to tell you this thought that I had; I hope it doesn't seem too strange, from the start of this discussion, I kept thinking of how there are many people's on the earth who give their dead "sky burials". I'm thinking particularly of the Mongols here, because I've been reading about them, but I know that others have this tradition also, including Tibetans.

I asked myself why I should think of this as part of this discussion. Somehow, it seems to me to feel relevant. Obviously, by such a custom, the bones are preserved, true to that teaching, but I think there is more to it. Fire destroys. Air, actually, preserves, as in drying, eg dried fish. I wonder if that's relevant.

More than that, even, I believe there is a spiritual significance too, but I can't quite get the thought that is trying to come. Burial in the ground is right, and has significance, yet although it's clearly impractical in Western society, I suspect that this too has a deep meaning.

AGuest, your words there on the same energy in both creation and destruction really, deeply resonated with me.

LOZ SAID

Just to say, this is all rather exciting, the revealing of such depth is wonderful, and has me thinking deeply. Thanks to everyone.

Loz x
_________________
Don't let anyone put you down, and don't do it to yourself.

JUST MOM SAID





Hello Chariko..


Yes I'm not too familiar with 'sky burials' other that the fact that the Mongolians and Tibetans especially Tibetans use this form of burial because they live high in the mountains where it is too rocky to dig graves and fuel is scarce and so is timber (a blessing in disguise) to cremate their dead. They offer the vessel (flesh and blood) to the vultures for life to continue as good carma. They crush the bones and they return to the rocky ground.
They believe when the vessel dies the true life continues on.

Thanks for sharing this also. Good points I found in reading.


Love justmom

CHARIKLO SAID

Hi justmom,

While I was aware of Tibetan sky burials, the ones I am most aware of and know most about are the Mongolian, which were the ones that came to mind, though i was aware that the Tibetans and others also used this method. My understanding with the Mongolians was not that they then pulverised the bones, but that the bodies were left in presentation to the Sky Father, as they called God. Don't, or rather didn't, some native Americans do the same?

JUSTMOM SAID


Chariko


Not too sure as to how all done. I did see a photo of a Mongolian sky burial and yes it had looked like the body was just left for the vultures, but I saw another one where they were chopping with an axe the bones. So I'm not sure if there is a black and white custom other than the flesh and blood is given to the birds and the bones are NOT cremated.
And I'm okay with that! LOL


Justmom