xjwsforChrist

LOZ SAID

Num 6:26 the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace."'
2Ch 30:9 If you return to the LORD, then your brothers and your children will be shown compassion by their captors and will come back to this land, for the LORD your God is gracious and compassionate. He will not turn his face from you if you return to him."
Psa 27:9 Do not hide your face from me, do not turn your servant away in anger; you have been my helper. Do not reject me or forsake me, O God my Savior.
Psa 102:2 Do not hide your face from me when I am in distress. Turn your ear to me; when I call, answer me quickly.
Eze 4:7 Turn your face toward the siege of Jerusalem and with bared arm prophesy against her.
Eze 7:22 I will turn my face away from them, and they will desecrate my treasured place; robbers will enter it and desecrate it.

On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and difficulties will come upon them, and on that day they will ask, 'Have not these disasters come upon us because our God is not with us?'
Deu 31:18 And I will certainly hide my face on that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods.
Deu 32:20 "I will hide my face from them," he said, "and see what their end will be; for they are a perverse generation, children who are unfaithful.
Job 13:24 Why do you hide your face and consider me your enemy?
Psa 13:1 For the director of music. A psalm of David. How long, O LORD? Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me?
Psa 27:9 Do not hide your face from me, do not turn your servant away in anger; you have been my helper. Do not reject me or forsake me, O God my Savior.
Psa 44:24 Why do you hide your face and forget our misery and oppression?
Psa 69:17 Do not hide your face from your servant; answer me quickly, for I am in trouble.
Psa 88:14 Why, O LORD, do you reject me and hide your face from me?
Psa 102:2 Do not hide your face from me when I am in distress. Turn your ear to me; when I call, answer me quickly.
Psa 104:29 When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust.
Psa 143:7 Answer me quickly, O LORD; my spirit fails. Do not hide your face from me or I will be like those who go down to the pit.
Jer 33:5 in the fight with the Babylonians: 'They will be filled with the dead bodies of the men I will slay in my anger and wrath. I will hide my face from this city because of all its wickedness.
Eze 39:29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD."
Mic 3:4 Then they will cry out to the LORD, but he will not answer them. At that time he will hide his face from them because of the evil they have done.

This turning or hiding his face seems to me to equate with the removal of his spirit.

Loz x
_________________
Don't let anyone put you down, and don't do it to yourself.

CHARIKLO SAID

I seriously do not believe God ever removes his Spirit from us, Loz.

We might refuse to listen, or we might turn ourselves from God, but the action and the negation are ours, not His. He is unchanging. With Him there is no shadow of turning. He is from everlasting to everlasting.

LOZ SAID

Char, I hear what you're saying but some in the past have behaved in such ways that Jah would have had to remove his spirit. Think of Judas? The Holy Spirit seems to come with approval. Look at David's plea here:
Psalm 51
10 Create a pure heart in me, O God, and put a new and loyal spirit in me. 11 Do not banish me from your presence; do not take your holy spirit away from me.
and Psalm 34
. 15 The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their cry; 16 the face of the LORD is against those who do evil, to cut off the memory of them from the earth.

This is not to say that some aren't forgiven if they repent of course.

Loz x
_________________
Don't let anyone put you down, and don't do it to yourself.

AGUEST SAID


Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:19 pm Post subject:
Good morning, happy new year... and peace to you all!

THANK you, dear Loz, Q, and Char (peace to you all!) for those lovely comments. It is true that JAH can never turn His back on US, that we must turn from HIM... however, He can hide His face from us! Indeed, it is hidden, is it not, when we can't see Christ? But when He REVEALS Christ to us... by allowing Christ to reveal himself... is it not THEN that we can see the IMAGE of the face of God (none of us can look directly on it, which is why (1) it is bathed in light, and (2) we have to USE an image, Christ.

He can also remove His spirit... if we become an "unclean" vessel. Like King Saul became. And we become "unclean" when (1) we touch something unclean (like a "woman", Babylon the Great or one of her "daughters", which "defiles" us), or (2) possess IN us an unclean spirit which we can allow by means of our own desires (as did Judas, and even Peter briefly - "Get behind me, Satan!"), or (3) intentionally disobey (not because we can't conquer the leanings of the flesh, but like Adham, who CHOSE to disobey something... and something that was meant for his own protection, not JAH's pleasure!).

Even so, to NOT see God or LOSE His spirit... is on us: we either haven't turned TO Christ... or have turned AWAY... from Christ. Because it is through and by means of him, Christ... ONLY... that we can see the face of God. There is NO other "Way," dear ones. NO ONE comes to the Father... so as to see HIS face... except THROUGH the Son.

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you ALL!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

LOZ SAID


Yes, thank you for that clarification Shelby. The issue of your number 1. touching the 'unclean' has been troubling me, I started a thread on it on the other forum where some felt I was judging others. That was not my intention at all. If ones who love Jah and his son stay in false religion, which we now realise includes the WTBS, then they are endangering their spirituality by doing so, are they not? Whether they stay for family or friends or whatever purpose, they can't be fully approved while they 'touch' and should be considering carefully the admonition to 'get out of her my people'. Whilst claiming to be the one organisation representing Jah people being drawn to it have been given a false sense of security that they have his approval. So reprehensible.
Loz x
_________________
Don't let anyone put you down, and don't do it to yourself.

CHARIKLO SAID

Shelby, I take, and like what you write about God choosing to reveal his Son to us. Yes. That sounds right to me. And yes, as you say towards the end, the only way to the Father is through the Son. Absolutely. We are of one mind there.

Your middle paragraph is something I'll have to think about and ponder, though. Surely, when Peter said "Get thee behind me, Satan!" He was just making a mistake, because he simply didn't understand. Not surprising. These men were on an incredibly sharp learning curve, weren't they, going from being simple fishermen, albeit being trained and educated by God's very Son, to learning, and being expected to understand, the things of God. Quite a lot to contend with! As to the rest....I need to think about it.

Loz, I am so sorry, but I'm not comfortable with what you've written here, and I've been thinking about why this is. As I said elsewhere the other day, I am newly free of the whole JW way of thinking.


The concepts of "false religion" and the need to seek God's approval are very reminiscent of that thinking, too much so for me. I do not see other religions in those terms, even the WT, who are utterly false, but to my mind that is because they actively, and to some extent knowingly, portray a deliberately wrong and manipulative depiction of God. They are power-hungry. They are indeed false, and the religion they peddle too, yet I still dislike that term "false religion" because it is theirs, and used by them as part of the brainwashing process. For those who are, for instance, Buddhists or Hindus or who are followers of Christ from different Christian traditions, I do not see them as in "false religion", but just different. God, and God alone, knows the heart, and we come to Him through his Son. Those who don't yet may not yet have it all right but are not in "false religion" save for those actively and deliberately, with full intent, promoting falseness...and even then it isn't false religion, because that is an exclusively JW term, with all it's attendant connotations.

I just feel it's important to get right away from Watchtower phraseology and its manipulative, insidious jargon,

LOZ SAID

Char, I apologise if anything I've posted has distressed you. I'm not promoting JW thinking, honestly. It's quite the opposite, I'm despising their misrepresentations of Jah and Christ. Currently my focus is on making sure that I, ME, PERSONALLY, do not offend the spirit in any way nor cause Jah to hide his face or his Christ from MY eyes. I see now that they're a part of Babylon the Great and it pains me that I affiliated with them at all.

Just to clarify my previous last sentence, for a long time I have 'seen' that they are false prophets, I just hadn't assimilated the significance of MY association with them. Hope that makes it clearer.

Loz x
_________________
Don't let anyone put you down, and don't do it to yourself.

AGUEST SAID


I don't think it was Peter who made that statement dear Char (peace to you, dear one!), but our Lord TO Peter who the Adversary was using to try and convince the Chris that he didn't HAVE to go through with his sacrifice.

If you recall, the disciples were NOT immediately transformed simply because of having our Lord in their midst. Indeed, they fought and argued... and Peter had a hard time learning a few things. Perhaps even harder than the others because he seemed to always be the one addressed in the "individual" lesson, yes? So, here, although Peter might have been trying to comfort, even HELP, our Lord... his doing so allowed an opportunity for the Adversary to "transform himself into an angel of light" and try to USE Peter.

We can know that, up the very night of our Lord's arrest... and even after... Peter was not always "whole-souled", either as to his faith IN or his love OF our Lord. He started to sink when walking on the water... he tried to get our Lord to change his mind about the sacrifice... he didn't fully grasp the purpose of having his feet washed... he cut off the soldiers ear... he denied our Lord... he hid with the others... he was biased when it came to the distribution... and probably a whole lot more.

Our Lord KNEW this about Peter, though... just as he knew Peter would lose faith and begin to sink... knew Peter would cut off the man's ear (which is why he told him to bring the sword)... knew he would deny our Lord (indeed, he TOLD him he would)... knew that he, along with the others, would scatter, when the shepherd was "struck"... etc.

Which is why HE, Peter, was asked... BY our Lord... SEVERAL times... whether he (TRULY) loved our Lord.

Knowing Peter's weaknesses, then, our Lord gave him only one task. One. To feed his (Christ's) sheep.

We are told to guard our hearts. Peter didn't learn that lesson for quite some time. Praise JAH, though, he did learn it!

I hope this helps, dear Char... and, again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

CHARIKLO SAID

Now, that IS embarrassing!

Note to self: when writing late at night, first engage brain. And make. Sure it is switched on.

Shelby, yes, of course it was our Lord saying those words to Peter, and not Peter to him. I 've known that all my life. I can only assume total absence of brain when I wrote that.

I apologise to everyone.

TEC SAID

I think most of us have done it at some point or another, Char

Peace,
tammy

AGUEST SAID

Absolutely NO apology needed, dear Char (peace to you, dear one!). I THOUGHT that's what you meant... that the comment wasn't meant to imply that Satan truly WAS involved/influencing but that it was only a faux pas. Since others may be reading, however, I thought perhaps the matter should be clarified and set straight. That's all... and I'm am grateful to YOU for the privilege!

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

QUENTIN SAID

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:34 am Post subject:
I think( watch me folks, makes me dangerous ) anyone, Xjw, Mormon, X anything, has an aversion to being in a religion, or have a church affiliation, because THEY GOT LOST in the crowd.

These are the folks that have DISCOVERED they Love Jesus, accept Him as their Savior, or have a spiritual direction to their life where in God plays a VITAL ROLE .You go to church, belong to a religion, that's fine. BUT, it is not the belonging ta a church/religion that fills your spiritual life.

I cannot sit through a church service. There is nothing there for me, except being a warm body that sits in a pew. When that last amen is said I bolt for the door.
_________________
Vinegar tasts better in freedom
than honey in slavery

How can you unterstand a thing unless you know it?
How can you know a thing unless you understand it?

TEC SAID


I think that is insightful, Quentin.

There are churches (buildings) that are just places to go to hear about Christ and God, and perhaps having some fellowship as well with others who love them... that have nothing to do with doctrines and traditions and things that MUST be accepted; that do not try to take the place of Christ, or state that you must have allegiance with them.

I have never sat through a session in a church that felt right though; or that made me feel closer to Christ and God. (maybe some stuff as a kid, but they tend to keep it simple for kids... Christ, God, love, golden rule...) As an adult, often the opposite occurred. But that is me.

Peace to you,
tammy

QUENTIN SAID

Well said Tammy....those of us who have come to that point are mature AND comfortable in their spiritual walk with the Creator.

I cast no disrespect on those who go to church. I myself am a filthy begger dressed in rags knocking on heavens door, awaiting the time with patience when I am allowed to enter.
_________________
Vinegar tasts better in freedom
than honey in slavery

How can you unterstand a thing unless you know it?
How can you know a thing unless you understand it?

AGUEST SAID


Good morning, and peace to you all! I will share what my Lord gave to me about religion... all of them... and their purpose (especially "christianity"). Please know that this is NOT an attempt to judge anyone or anything but only to explain what I, ME, now understand. As always, each must decide for themselves:

Religions are "false" lights whose purpose is to draw us AWAY from God, not TO him. By drawing us after their teachings, doctrines, customs, traditions, and rules... rather than Christ's. It is true that some APPEAR to teach "Christ"... because they teach many of his words as recorded in the Bible. Regarding the leaders of these, Christ said they:

"Seat themselves in the seat of Moses." Matthew 23:2

What did he mean? He meant that they seat themselves between man and God. A true christian not only KNOWS, though, but LIVES a life that SHOWS... that there is NO ONE between them and God... but Christ, the mediator of the NEW Covenant... which is the covenant between anyone who is a CHRISTIAN... and God. It is the "Law" that God writes on their hearts... and not in creeds, etc.

He also told what we are to do about these who seat themselves so:

"All things they TELL you... DO... but do NOT do as THEY do." Matthew 23:3

Why was this? He explained:

"Because they preach, but do not practice."

Now, some might think that this in relation to, say, not committing adultery. Indeed, many don't commit adultery. Or covet. Or steal. Or murder. Or maybe it's with regard to attending meetings ("Not forsaking the gathering", although that's not what that verse is about)... or preaching the good news... or making disciples. Don't most of these do these things? Most of them do. What our Lord was talking about, though, was something more. It was about... LISTENING TO AND FOLLOWING HIM!

How many of these TELL you to follow Christ? To listen to Christ? Yet, when it's all said and done, do THEY follow Christ? Do THEY listen to him? Or... do they follow men? And listen to men? Remember Paul's comment? Some were saying, "I belong to Paul, others I to Apollo!" Today, we have "I follow Calvin!... I, Luther!... I, Charles Russell!... I, the men who make up the FDS!" And others "I, Papa!" Etc. Yes, they ALSO say they follow Christ, but again... DO they? They SAY... but do they DO?

Well, our Lord SAID what they "do"... and it wasn't following him. He started with:

"They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called "rabbi" (teacher) by others. But you are not to be called "rabbi", for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." Matthew 23:4-12

He didn't stop there, though. He actually stated a LONG list of things "they" do (which you can read about in the rest of Matthew Chapter 23)... "they" being the religious leaders of HIS time: corrupt priests, scribes (those who WRITE law/doctrine), and Pharisees (the religious LAWyers of his day - remember, the Jewish system was based on the LAW Covenant and these men studied the law and so considered themselves experts in its interpretation and application. They even went do far as to the dictate to the priests... who, rather than standing up to them, did THEIR bidding, these Pharisees... INSTEAD of Gods!). In essence, those who made up the Jewish court (which was based on their system of worship): the Sanhedrin (which is another topic altogether!).

Now, of course, some "christian" religions now "just put it out there" with no real enforcement (other than marking, shunning, and expelling/DF'ing/excommunicating). But that is a relatively new practice - historically, religion... and particularly "christianity" not only required allegiance, forced it, but put to death any who did not comply. That they don't do so today doesn't mean they now have God's approval: you can't put NEW wine into OLD wineskins. Or a NEW patch on an OLD garment. And even a LITTLE leaven... ferments the WHOLE lump (of dough). To think that these are not culpable for the wrongs they've done and do... because of the "good" they've done or do... is like saying a woman is only a "little" pregnant. Either she’s not pregnant... or she is pregnant.

For the Body of Christ... the “seed of the Woman”... religion... and particularly “christianity” is a light, yes. But... it is not THE Light (John 8:12). We, however, are the CHILDREN of Light... and those who not only search for but must HAVE truth... and so we are drawn: to these false lights, particularly those who say they have... and/or call themselves... “the truth.” If they don’t have Christ, however, they are NOT the truth... nor do they HAVE truth – they only have what SEEMS like truth.

Hence, they are like “bug” lights. I have shared this analogy given me by my Lord many times and since it’s applicable will do so again: I don’t know if any of you have ever seen the animated film, “A Bug’s Life” but there is a scene where two flying bugs are traveling and come across a patio where there’s a bug light hanging from the roof. One bug immediately becomes hypnotized by the beautiful “light” emitting from the unit. His eyes start “swirling” and he allows himself to be “drawn” toward. The other screams at him, “Louie! Louie! DON’T LOOK AT THE LIGHT!” But poor Louie: too late! “I can’t HELP it...” he says dreamily. “It so BEAUTIFUL!” Well, he’s drawn... and drawn... and drawn... until... ZAP!!

Thankfully, THIS light didn’t kill Louie! But in the REAL world Louie would have LOST HIS LIFE! And that is the PURPOSE of religion: they are FALSE lights, designed to be beautiful... so as to draw us IN... and then “kill” us. NOT physically... but SPIRITUALLY! By drawing us AWAY from the Life... Christ... and TOWARD them!

So, WHY, then, does the MOST Holy One of Israel, who claims to love the world SO much that He gave His Son to save those in it... LET man come under these systems... BE drawn by/to these “lights”? Why not just show Christ to such ones from the start and help us avoid the false lights... and potential “death”... altogether? Two (2) reasons:

1. Our free will to CHOOSE... between the false lights... and the TRUE Light; and

2. Because we have shown ourselves to be a “babe”... as to RIGHTEOUSNESS... and so must be “under men in charge” for a time. Because these “men”... more than teaching us the NEW Law, the law of LOVE... will absolutely teach us the OLD Law. It is through them, then, that we come to know what “sin” IS.

Our free will, then, is what we use to DECIDE... whether we WANT that Law... or whether it is anathema to us... because we are actually children of the NEW Law... which God began writing on our HEARTS from the moment we came to life in our mother’s wombs. Because of the world we live in, though, we don’t always REMEMBER that “new” law, right off. It isn’t until we start “hearing” the “sour notes” in the melody of the OLD Law... or “taste” its “rottenness”... that we start looking toward the NEW Law (“Wait, that doesn’t SOUND right!” or “Hey, that leaves a BAD taste in MY mouth!”).

And it is THEN... that we begin to HEAR the Voice of our dear Lord... CALLING to us... saying, “THIS is the way, you people! Walk THIS way!” And so, we start drawing AWAY from those false lights! But... we can’t SEE the One calling us, can we? And so... we fear being “lost.” We fear that if we leave the “light” of even a FALSE light... we’re going to be plunged into darkness, with no way to see our way. But that is NOT TRUE: if we just exercise FAITH... and LISTEN... and follow the voice that is saying to us, “Not THAT way, child – THIS way!”... even though we are blind... we will find the One speaking!

But... we have to walk... by FAITH... and not by SIGHT.

He is the one... the ONLY One... who can lead us through... and out of... the darkness of the world. The world is NOT in light, but in darkness. And although we see some things that APPEAR to be “good” in it... we KNOW it is in darkness. That is what BOTHERS us about it... and those who claim to be leading God’s sheep THROUGH it, no matter what religion, denomination, belief system, doctrine, or creed they claim. WE know that with God... and thus Christ... ALL is good, not just some. And that’s what causes us concern:

“They do this, yes... BUT... they do that. And I can’t do that/be a part of that. I just can’t. I don’t judge them – it’s okay for them... but it’s NOT okay for me. I KNOW it’s not. But... where else do I go?? Where else are there those who are the same, who simply CANNOT follow EVERY thing these (religions) are telling me I must?”

What we, the Body of Christ, MUST learn... is that there is no “where” – there is ONLY a Whom, Christ. BUT... (1) he does NOT leave us bereaved and alone (“Look! I AM... WITH you... ALL the days” – Matthew 28:20), AND (2) where the Body IS... the [future] seraphs gather (Matthew 24:2! I have changed the words to state it accurately, so here is how it is stated in many bibles:

“For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.” Matthew 24:28

But what does this mean and what... or maybe who... is Christ talking about here? And why did I change the words? The word “eagles” is a misnomer and mistransliteration of what was originally written. How can we know? Well, besides having Christ himself tell us (which he did, with me... so that I could explain it to others)... we can look at the word “eagles”. Some bibles replace that word with “vultures.” Why? Because eagles don’t eat carrion (carcasses/dead bodies). They eat live, freshly caught meat. But vultures are “hated” birds, among those considered the most unclean of birds... because they feed on dead bodies (Leviticus 11:13; Acts 10:9-14; Revelation 18:2; 19:17, 18). And so, some translators (copyists/scribes) believed that “vulture” was the proper word here.

But was it? When I was a JW, I kept coming across this verse time and time... and time again. It’s a short verse that doesn’t really seem to fit with all that it around it... and doesn’t quite make sense. Why was Christ talking about carcasses and eagles? And for quite some time, I just didn’t get it. But it intrigued me and so it was one of the first things I asked about when he and I began really talking. And he told me was this:

He is talking about HIS body, his FLESH... which was dead, died for us (hence, “carcass”)... but has life IN IT so that any who EAT of it can LIVE (John 6:51-53)... and those who DO so eat. HE is the “carcass”... and WE, the “eagles.” But... not eagles OR vultures. His original words were “flying, flesh-eating things.” Which are... as some of you may now know... angels... or... seraphs.

So, of course I did not immediately understand, so I asked: “Are you saying that these “eagles” are the angels, Lord?” Because I know that the angels also feed from him (Psalm 78:25). And it was then that he reminded me of what WE will be like... when we put on the “white robe” from him: “like then angels”. Like him... bone of HIS bone... and flesh of HIS flesh... and thus... seraphs.

And so, I’ve changed the words here... for YOU... to make them more accurately reflect what he MEANT: where HIS Body is... is where the seraphs gather. Hence, “where two or more are gathered IN MY NAME...” And such gathering includes... eating of him. Which is important, VERY. Because it leads me into the next wonderful thing I have to share with you... what I have been waiting almost a week to share... but did not yet have the freedom from him to do. I will share that, though, in a separate thread.

In the meantime, I hope THIS, what I’ve shared with you HERE, helps, truly. As I’ve always said to you, you not only do not have to take MY word for ANY of it, but SHOULD not. Rather, you should go to the One who told ME of these things... and ask HIM. He is there, his hand held out. Just go to him and ask as to anything that you are curious about, want to know more about, or even have doubts about. But go... IN faith, that he WILL answer you... and listen... IN FAITH... trust that he would NOT lie to you... and then PUT FAITH in what you hear from that One.

But... make sure you go the RIGHT One. There are many “gods,” dear one... and “christs”. Even the Adversary “keeps transforming himself into an angel of light.” So, if you are unsure whose voice it is you are hearing... ASK. Ask for identification. Even better, ADDRESS the Right One in the first place... because no other spirit can... or will... respond FOR him. HE has all authority... and no one else.

May the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and the love and peace of HIS Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... be upon you all... AND your dear households... this day, this year... and to time indefinite!

YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... and a slave of Christ,

SA