xjwsforChrist

LOZ SAID

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:30 pm Post subject: The 'face' of God?
I spent a long timed studying this at one point. When we are in favour, according to the bible, Jah's face is turned towards us. However, the opposite is also true, there are many scriptures that record the fact that people's actions have caused Jah to turn his face away from them. (I will look some up if needed).
It occurs to me that in real life if someone has hurt us deeply, we don't want to look at them, no, we turn our face away. Conversely when we love, we look, share eye contact and turn towards those with our faces.
I wonder about the spiritual meanings behind the 'turning of the face'?
Opinions?

Loz x
_________________
Don't let anyone put you down, and don't do it to yourself.

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

HABUB SAID

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:50 am Post subject:
This is so interesting and good point. This became a normal experience for me during times of very, limited, contact w/a toxic family member -- odd and I really didn't see the face. I'd prayed for yrs. for strength to endure the person's face/presence (for strength to endure in order to obey the "honor" command) and realized after several yrs. it was almost like they were invisible yet I wasn't looking away from them or intentionally avoiding eye contact like one normally does. When another family member would comment to me about their facial appearance, hair, skin, (outward, aged, physical looks), I was vague because I really didn't know.

TEC SAID

I am not sure about Him turning his face from us (though I cannot imagine having to watch some of the things that people do to themselves and one another). I look forward to hearing other responses.

On the flip side though... we can turn our faces away from him, in our guilt and our sin.

Like not being able to meet the eyes of someone you wronged. Because of your shame and your guilt. That shame and guilt can overwhelm us to the point that we leave or 'hide' from God, altogether. God gave us a provision (Christ, forgiveness, grace and mercy), so that we do not have to hide from Him.

Peace to you,
tammy

JUSTMOM SAID

Thanks tec

My thought also. Our not showing our faces to Jah or others may be at times not just fear and guilt but also deceit. Was reminded of Adam and how he hid (his face) from Jah. His shame from disobedience, he couldn't face him.
Your face possesses the "eyes" and there is a saying "The eyes are the window into the soul.?" (something like that)
You can "SEE" inside someone when they are not being honest at times. It's like you can see their spirit.

just a thought
justmom

LOZ SAID

Thank you for replying, I'm just mulling this over is all, and wondering what others think or see.

There are often pleas in scripture that God doesn't 'hide' his face, Ps 27v9 is one of them, and is referring to disapproval or anger from God. Many times the 'light' of God's face shining towards someone depicts favour and blessing, as in Numbers 6v25,26.

I agree that it's our eyes that show our feelings to another I'm just interested in the using of face as an alternative, especially in reference to God. And it's true there are many instances of ones hiding their face from God in guilt or deceit.

Loz x
_________________
Don't let anyone put you down, and don't do it to yourself.

LOZ SAID

To take this meandering a stage further, Prov 27v19 says 'As water reflects a face, so a man's heart reflects the man'
and then if we look at 2 Cor 3v18 we read about 'our unveiled faces reflect like mirrors the glory of The Lord, and are transformed into the same image....' (In comparison with Moses veiled face)

There is obviously a link between the heart and the face. I'm sorry if I sound vague, I'm sure I'll get to a point of understanding something significant here soon.
Loz x
_________________
Don't let anyone put you down, and don't do it to yourself.

AGUEST SAID

Quote:
There is obviously a link between the heart and the face.


So THAT explains it, dear Loz (peace to you!)? Girl, cause I was wonderin'! LOLOLOL! I mean, I get accosted by almost EVERYONE! Every homeless person (I promise, every one!), every panhandler, very few people pass me without making SOME kind of comment/gesture (which range from a smile and/or greeting... to a growl or curse (yes! and I'm like, "Er?!"). Little children stare, sometimes tripping over their feet as they watch me pass by! And certain kinds of men... yikes! (and YUCK!). Has ALWAYS been that way, even when I was a tike.

I have asked myself seem likes a million times: do I literally have something written on my dang forehead??!!

It was SO bad at one time (mid-20's and living in Sacto), that I would walk through a gazillion underground parking lots to get to work, then take the freight elevator (vs. the lobby one)... just to avoid folks! I was like, "What are you LOOKING at??!"

I am older now and so I'm not as uncomfortable with it (heck, when you get holder you hope people DO see you! LOLOLOL!), but it's still a bit unnerving! You don't know if it's because you're hideous... because you forgot to pencil in one eyebrown... you've got spinach in your teeth while you're grinning at folks... or maybe a bird "got'cha" and you're the only one who doesn't know... what???!

Now you say it's because the HEART shows on the face?? Oh, Lordy. Now, I'm wonderin' what my "heart" is SAYIN' to some of these folks - LOLOLOL! Or what some THINK it's sayin' (i.e., those sleezy men! My heart is NOT "talkin'" to them... not at all! LOLOLOL!).

The ones who growl and curse at me might be reading' my "heart", right, though... 'cause I'm not [always] nice - LOLOLOL!

Goodness, this "revelation" has almost STOPPED my heart! Maybe I need to learn "poker face"? LOLOLOL!

Peace... and THANK you for that, dear one!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA, who's maybe gonna go and start practicin' a new face in the mirror ('cause my expression NEVER looks like I THINK it will when I look in the mirror!)

LOZ SAID

Lol, very interesting Shelby, and the closer you grow to the Lord by reflecting him, the more his glory shows in your face. I certainly manage to attract people in distress like a magnet lol.

Loz x
_________________
Don't let anyone put you down, and don't do it to yourself.

AGUEST SAID



SEE??!! That's what I mean, too! LOLOL! At least you know it's their distress... and not bird poo on your nose - LOLOLOL!

Peace, dear Loz... to you and your household!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

LEANN SAID

If someone's face is turned away from us it is hard to hear and understand them.

TEC SAID



Ah..

Hence when some find themselves with a spirit of 'blindness' perhaps?

Peace,
tammy

LEANN SAID

Tammy...

Yes for when we don't look to him we may not hear clearly and if we are not looking in the direction in which our lord is facing we do not have the face of God because we are not following his course.

So really the truest way to hear him is to never turn our face away and to always look to his purpose because that is where the face of God can be found.

LOZ SAID

I thought I would share with all here some excellent research a dear friend sent to me on this topic, and there is a link at the end to further interesting points too.

STRONG'S H6440 PANIYM, P N Y M
פנימ
BENNER 'THE LIVING WORDS', 'FACE' Page 41
The Hebrew word 'PANIYM' means 'FACE' but with a deeper meaning than just the front part of the head. The first clue that there is more to this word than simply meaning 'face' is that it is a plural word, as indicated by the suffix 'YM'.

In English, nouns denote inanimate objects and only if one adds a verb can the noun take on animation. Hebrew nouns, on the other hand, denote objects of action. The action behind 'PANIYM' is the expression of emotion and personality in the face, and since we have an infinite number of 'FACES' the Hebrew word is plural.

Our second clue that there is more to this word can be read in the following passages.
"And the LORD said unto Moses, Depart, [and] go up hence, thou and the people which thou hast brought up out of the land of Egypt, unto the land which I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it:And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou [art] a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way." EXODUS 33:1-3 KJV

In these verses, we are told that Yahweh refused to go with Israel to take them to the Promised Land because they were stiffnecked and he would kill them. He would send an angel to go with them instead. A few verses later, we are given another description of this angel.
"And he said, My presence shall go [with thee], and I will give thee rest." EXODUS 33:14 KJV
The Hebrew word behind the word 'PRESENCE' is 'PANIYM', the 'FACE', and is a description of the angel mentioned previously. The angel has the same personality as Yahweh and therefore is the 'FACE OF YAHWEH'.

We see this same concept in Yeshua's teaching about himself and the father.
"If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him." Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves." JOHN 14:7-11 RSV

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/1_introduction.html

Loz x
_________________
Don't let anyone put you down, and don't do it to yourself.

QUENTIN SAID


For many years now I have come to the conclusion The Creator NEVER TURNS away from US. We can spin around in circles, but when we look to Him He is ALWAYS looking back at us. You can turn your back on God, He NEVER turns His on YOU....

That's how I feel...
_________________
Vinegar tasts better in freedom
than honey in slavery

How can you unterstand a thing unless you know it?
How can you know a thing unless you understand it?

CHARIKLO SAID

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:41 am Post subject:
Yup. That pretty well sums it up for me, too, as far as that goes.