xjwsforChrist

JUSTMOM SAID

Hello Tootired2care


Unless the inside of the ark represented a spiritual place not physical. Then the vast species and animal kingdom would not be a problem as spirits coexist differently than physical flesh...

AGUEST SAID



I'm not sure that's accurate, dear 'Mom (peace to you, dear one!). My understanding is NOT everything, but only that which lived on the surface of the ground... right... and not that which could survive in the water? Which COULD account for the survival of some (most) insect species, as their eggs/larvae could float (as could many adult species) as well as survive in water?

Even so, is it possible, dear 2T2C (peace to you!) that the plethora of insect (and other) "species" that exist now evolved from a much fewer number of phylum? Because (with the exception of the homo sapiens species) there's no reason why most if not all other physical forms couldn't have evolved into many more species. I mean, since we know that species DO evolve (but apparently nothing above that taxonomic rank... without artificial manipulation of reproduction).

Just my $0.02...

Peace to you, both!

A slave of Christ,

SA

JUSTMOM SAID
Yes thank you Aguest

Everything on the LAND not in the waters. Thank you!!!

justmom

YPPUPPLLEH SAID

Remember back then the whole world was pretty much a 200 square radius of where a person lived
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...

RED SAID

Peace to All, and greetings!

This thread really gets one thinking.. and with an open mind, and an open heart, it makes PERFECT sense.

Most of the bible refers to spiritual, which is why so many people get lost.

As for insects, yes there are too many insects to be numbered so how did Noah get them all on the Ark without them possibly being squished, eaten or lost?

They were ALL in spirit.

After the flood ended and they opened the door they all exited the Ark(just as Adam & Eve left Eden) and as they left the Ark they became PHYSICAL again. Every living thing in the Ark including Noah and his ENTIRE family descended back into fleshly bodies.

When you're in Spirit, you don't require fleshly things like food or pooping. And since they were in spirit I'm quite positive it didn't even feel like they were in the Ark for a year. Maybe something more equivalent to what we call "minutes or hours"..

Some literations say Noah became a farmer after the flood. THIS IS WRONG!

The correct translation is
Genesis 9:20 Noah began to be a man of the soil. He planted a vineyard.

Please read that passage with thought.

A man of SOIL. Just like Adam.
Why would he 'BEGIN' to be a man of soil(dust) if he ALREADY was fleshly?
He later planted a Vineyard NOT a farm. There's more meaning behind this than I understand right now but we know what the vineyard represents later in the Bible. Anywho, when reading, the Ark must be referred to as a type of 'consecrated container'.

Just some more food for thought..

YPPUPLLEH SAID

To be more succinct do you believe that the ark had a sort of interdimensional gateway, like a star trek transporter, that dematerialised people/animal/insects into spiritual energy and then when they left the ark they became material again?
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...

WATERSPROUT SAID

Thank you for your explanation

Still a little fuzzy but will ask the Master.

PSACRAMENTO SAID

The debate surrounding the "literal" interpretation of the flood account, namely was it global as it SEEMS to IMPLY, has been around for centuries.
Fact is that what we are saying is, is it literal AND concrete: IE: Did the flood waters cover ALL the surface of the WHOLE WORLD AND did Noah save ALL the animals of the WHOLE world that couldn't NOT survive?

First off, there is NO reason to view the flood account as global since the wordings used can be applied in both the global context and the "local" "world" context.
The term the "whole earth" applies to not only the whole earth, but local georaphical area and even to a people:
re: people-

Shall not the Judge of all [kol] the earth [erets] deal justly?" (Genesis 18:25) (God judges the people of the earth, not the earth itself)
Now behold, today I am going the way of all [kol] the earth [erets], and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. (Joshua 23:14) (Joshua was going the way of all people in the earth, whose ultimate destiny is death.)
And all [kol] the people of the land [erets] entered the forest, and there was honey on the ground. (1 Samuel 14:25) (The words "the people of" are added to the English, since they are not found in the Hebrew. The actual translation would be "all the land entered the forest," obviously referring to the people and not to the land itself moving into the forest.)
While all [kol] the country [erets] was weeping with a loud voice, all the people passed over. (2 Samuel 15:23) (Obviously, the earth cannot weep with a loud voice.)
"I am going the way of all [kol] the earth [erets]. Be strong, therefore, and show yourself a man. (1 Kings 2:2) (David was going the way of all people in the earth, whose ultimate destiny is death.)
He is the LORD our God; His judgments are in all [kol] the earth [erets]. (1 Chronicles 16:14) (Judgments are done against people, not the planet)
Sing to the LORD, all [kol] the earth [erets]; Proclaim good tidings of His salvation from day to day. (1 Chronicles 16:23) (The people sing, not the planet)
Tremble before Him, all [kol] the earth [erets]; Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved. (1 Chronicles 16:30) (This does not refer to earthquakes!)
Let all [kol] the earth [erets] fear the LORD; Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him. (Psalm 33: (People, not planets, fear the Lord)
For the choir director. A Song. A Psalm.) Shout joyfully to God, all the earth; (Psalm 66:1) (People shout, not the earth)
"All the earth will worship Thee, And will sing praises to Thee; They will sing praises to Thy name." Selah. (Psalm 66:4) (People worship, not the earth)
Sing to the LORD a new song; Sing to the LORD, all [kol] the earth [erets]. (Psalm 96:1) (People sing, not the earth)
Worship the LORD in holy attire; Tremble before Him, all [kol] the earth [erets]. (Psalm 96:9) (People worship, not the earth)
Shout joyfully to the LORD, all [kol] the earth [erets]; Break forth and sing for joy and sing praises. (Psalm 98:4) (People shout, not the earth)
(A Psalm for Thanksgiving.) Shout joyfully to the LORD, all [kol] the earth [erets]. (Psalm 100:1) (People shout, not the earth)
He is the LORD our God; His judgments are in all [kol] the earth [erets]. (Psalm 105:7) (Judgments are done against people, not the planet)
"The whole [kol] earth [erets] is at rest and is quiet; They break forth into shouts of joy. (Isaiah 14:7) (People shout, not the earth)


re: Local geographical area:

"Is not the whole [kol] land [erets] before you? Please separate from me: if to the left, then I will go to the right; or if to the right, then I will go to the left." (Genesis 13:9) (The "whole land" was only the land of Canaan)
And the people of all [kol] the earth [erets] came to Egypt to buy grain from Joseph, because the famine was severe in all the earth. (Genesis 41:57) (The people from the Americas did not go to Egypt)
Then God said, "Behold, I am going to make a covenant. Before all your people I will perform miracles which have not been produced in all [kol] the earth [erets], nor among any of the nations; and all the people among whom you live will see the working of the LORD, for it is a fearful thing that I am going to perform with you. (Exodus 34:10) (There would be no need to add "nor among any of the nations" if "all the earth" referred to the entire planet.)
'You shall then sound a ram's horn abroad on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the day of atonement you shall sound a horn all [kol] through your land [erets]. (Leviticus 25:9) (The Hebrews were not required to sound a horn throughout the entire earth)
'Thus for every [kol] piece [erets] of your property, you are to provide for the redemption of the land. (Leviticus 25:24) (The law does not apply only to those who own the entire earth)
behold, I will put a fleece of wool on the threshing floor. If there is dew on the fleece only, and it is dry on all [kol] the ground [erets], then I will know that Thou wilt deliver Israel through me, as Thou hast spoken." (Judges 6:37, see also 6:39-40) (kol erets could not refer to the entire earth, since it would not be possible for Gideon to check the entire earth)
And Jonathan smote the garrison of the Philistines that was in Geba, and the Philistines heard of it. Then Saul blew the trumpet throughout [kol] the land [erets], saying, "Let the Hebrews hear." (1 Samuel 13:3) (Obviously, Saul could not have blown a trumpet loud enough to be heard throughout the entire earth)
For the battle there was spread over the whole [kol] countryside [erets], and the forest devoured more people that day than the sword devoured. (2 Samuel 18: (No, the battle did not take place over the entire earth.)
So when they had gone about through the whole [kol] land [erets], they came to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days. (2 Samuel 24: (No they didn't go through the entire earth, just the lands of Palestine.)
And all [kol] the earth [erets] was seeking the presence of Solomon, to hear his wisdom which God had put in his heart. (1 Kings 10:24) (It is unlikely that the Native Americans went to see Solomon.)
Then the fame of David went out into all [kol] the lands [erets]; and the LORD brought the fear of him on all the nations. (1 Chronicles 14:17) (It is unlikely that the Native Americans knew about David.)
And David said, "My son Solomon is young and inexperienced, and the house that is to be built for the LORD shall be exceedingly magnificent, famous and glorious throughout all [kol] lands [erets]. (1 Chronicles 22:5) (The temple was famous to all the lands in the Middle East, but was destroyed before the advent of globalism.)
And they were bringing horses for Solomon from Egypt and from all [kol] countries [erets]. (2 Chronicles 9:2 (It is unlikely that the Chinese brought horses to Solomon)

CRIMINY SAID



... or a wooden box to float around in either, I imagine.

It's all so confusing. If only we had a Watchtower to lead us to the fountain of pure knowledge.

AGUEST SAID



Actually, dear Crim (peace to you!), you would... as water confines spirits. Thus, while any flesh that was outside the ark would have died (due to drowning), any spirit being would have been imprisoned by the water. Which is why it WAS water that was sent (vs., say, fire). It is the same reason why my Lord sent Legion into a herd of swine... then the swine into the sea.

Fire is the only thing that destroys a/the spirit.

I hope this helps, dear one!

Again, peace to you!
_________________
Paz a todos!

Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA

TEC SAID

Very interesting thread and comments!

I have always had the feeling that the story is both... literal and 'spiritual'. Literal in that it happened, but told in a way that is not necessarily literal. (spiritual instead) Simply because of language/understanding barriers. Such as how the tree of life represents not a tree, but life. (deeper than that: Christ, THE Life)

I used to think it did not matter... the moral of the story remains the same regardless of whether the story is literal or allegorical. I still think that... but I have come to learn that sometimes this can prevent a person from even seeing a deeper understanding. One must look to the Spirit (of Christ, of Truth) to understand spiritual things.

For instance, I never understood before that the long garments of skin that God made for Adam and Eve (that had death and sin trapped within them) actually protected them (their spirit) from having to be claimed by death. (which was in them from having eaten of death/bad)

Rather than God condemning/punishing them - as many teach and believer- He acted to protect and save them from their own actions and deception... not them only, but all of their offspring (us) as well. So that we might have a way back - through the Life he sent us : Christ. So this flesh, even with the illness and sickness and aches and pains that we get in it... is a blessing, acting as a barrier in a sense against death/sin in our spirit/who we truly are within (though we can allow ourselves to sin in spirit as well, and not turn to Christ for life instead).

I don't know... it just makes me look at sickness and pain in an entirely different way... as temporary, as somehow not as bad (in the long run, at least)

Peace,
tammy

AGUEST SAID



YES, dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one... and WELCOME back, girl!!)! But the teaching as to condemnation/punishment is fomented by... "xtian" religion! Even the WTBTS. Adham/Eve can NOT have been condemned, yet, though... because the Judgment hasn't taken place. And, as we've brought out before, there is to be a resurrection "of the righteous AND the unrighteous, the righteous to life, the unrighteous to judgement." Neither has taken place and so, unrighteous though they may have been, Adham and Eve are STILL entitled to a "trial", as are all those whose spirits await their awakening.

The punishment part comes from folks not knowing God at all because all they perceive of Him they do from "searching the scriptures", rather than looking to Christ. As a result, they remain "blind"... following blind guides, who follow the "false stylus" of the scribes ("Woe, to you... scribes!"). If the blind FOLLOW the blind, will not both fall into the pit?

If ones would only condescend to look at/to Christ, they would "see" not only the purpose of the "long garment of skin" (a protection as well as a "covering" to hide their "nakedness") but what actually took place to lead up to its need (the details of which may not included in the Bible but are certainly "written" somewhere - even so, if one looks to Christ so as to "see", one doesn't need ANY writing).

God is merciful and we know this by looking at Christ, the IMAGE of God and very representation of His being, the One who came to "bear witness to the TRUTH" [about God]. So many prefer to look to a book, however, taking its "word" over that of Christ's... even his words that are contained in it! Even more... that call IT "God's Word"... which they don't understand is a total disregard and failure to acknowledge the One who IS that Word, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). Which is why they don't understand what the skin was... or was made of (NOT an animal pelt!).

Okay, had to get that in - LOL! Sorry for being so verbose; passion overtook me, as usual - LOL!

Anyway, thank you for YOUR comments... and, again, peace to you!

Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

TEC SAID

I hear you, Shelby!

Sometimes learning something like that (how God is not punishing; not exacting... which is so clearly seen by looking at Christ) just blows a person away, while at the same time, you think... well "OF COURSE! Why did I not see that before??"

(because we were looking at what men have taught, or at writings in the bible, or at religions... but NOT at Christ (the image, word, truth of God)... to see God)

Peace,
tammy

YPPUPLLEH SAID

For those that choose to eschew written literature and instead look to their own religious spiritual truths what would be a safety or stopgap to prevent them from righteous self affirmation?

I'm sure many a people throughout history have thought that they knew what was right according to their own reality who turned out to gather followers and spread their vision of what they thought was truth. I speak of the cult leaders and heterodox believers.

Some who say God or Jesus speaks to them end up doing a lot of harm. Heaven's Gate, Moonies, Jim Jones, etc.

Adherents of those beliefs will make the same claims as those of us here.
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...

TEC SAID

Test. Test. Test.

Against love, against forgiveness and mercy, the golden rule... I mean, even if you have misunderstood or understand only in part, as long as you are not against these things, then you are not against Christ. (He who is not against you is for you) And love covers over a multitude of sins.

I also know that anyone who tells you to listen to 'them' instead of going to Christ and listening to Him, is someone to run from. Red flag. Whether that be a person, or group, or religion.

Any and all of us can be wrong, can make mistakes... even if just due to our own limitations in knowledge/understanding. Which is why no one should listen to me, or to someone else here as any source of authority. One should always go to the Source, to Christ, in spirit... themselves; confirm something shared with Him, themselves. We can discuss with one another of course... to help build one another up; to share... but not to be teachers of one another. There is only one Teacher.

And if we do not know, or have not heard/understood an answer... then we can table 'it' (and keep seeking understanding)... so long as it is not against Christ, or love, mercy, forgiveness. If it is, then one should speak out on that (always in love of course).

So perhaps that is the best I understand for an answer: measure everything against love and mercy and the golden rule. You think something is true but that goes against those things (and therefore Christ and God as well)?; then you should reexamine your understanding (as should others who are discussing with you) And start reexamining yourself when you start thinking you're 'all that' and people should be listening to you.

Does that help a bit?

Peace,
tammy