xjwsforChrist

She did kinda "nail" it, didn't she, dear Loz (peace to you, both, and no pun intended. Well, not how one might think...)? May it be sufficient. Here's hoping...

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

She certainly did Shelby, lol. I always think of JM as pink and fluffy and so loveable, a gentle lady. I still will of course, but it's a delight to see her plain speakin too, lol. It made me spit out my coffee in surprise.

No offence here to Char, but these things needed saying, it's all gone on so long and is so repetitive and frustrating. Fair enough if someone has valid arguments but without them it's become very silly, as you said, Shelby.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

LOLOLOL! Okay, THAT almost made me spit MY drink out, dear Loz (peace, luv!). Although one of the kindest and most generous spirits I know, dear 'Mom (peace, luv!) ain't pink OR fluffy! LOLOLOL! Think... ummmmm... Paul Buyan's wife. Or, say, Liam Neesom's wife, played by Jessica Lange in "Rob Roy"... but with very dark hair (although, I DO tease dear 'Mom about her "blonde" moments on occasion - LOLOLOL!). The hair is... wait for it... from her WELSH roots! LOLOLOL!

She IS one of the most "girlie" ladies I know, though (meaning, she likes her mani-pedis, massages, the hair dresser, make-up, shopping, etc.), but girlfriend can chop TREES, dear Loz! Well, okay, maybe not trees... but I have NO doubt she could chop wood if she had to. Tall, strong but slim "mountain" woman"... who can pack a wallop (I know, 'cause I've SEEN it!) If she ever hit ME... well, let's just say I'd need some physical therapy! LOL!).

If I were to describe her as a dog (no offense; dear 'Mom knows I'm a dog-lover), I would say she's a cross between Labrador and a McNab:

http://www.dogbreedslist.info/all-dog-b ... nGb0lOcQjw
http://www.dogbreedslist.info/all-dog-b ... nGeMlOcQjw

I love her. Can't help it.

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Okayyyy, now I'm spittin out my coffee, LOL!!!!!

I love you all.

Well, never wore pink unless I was made to. Hated bras til my mom grounded me for not wearing one to school. Was a tomboy til my late teens. Then became sort of a lady I guess.
Married young, 19 to my best friend and husband of 33 years last week.

Became quite domestic because that it what one does as a JW wife. Which I really love actually and have no problem with. Just like it a little less these days because I don't have to be anymore.
Three sons are grown and house and yard are gone. No more slavery to it.

And yes Shelby does know me very well. Did my time chopping wood and kindling for the wood stove for about 20 years. Went out camped with him and worked a little when my husband fell timber.

Didn't like breaking nails, LOL but a girls gotta do what a girls gotta do !!

Although I tower over dear Shelby, she is my " little...BIG sister".

She has my back cuz I've been in the mountains waaayyyy too long. Just moved to the big city a year ago.

Just a little background. Plus I've waitressed my whole life and I actually really love it. Just getting a little harder on the old back these days! Gotta a few good days ahead of me and then I'll move on...

Love you all
Thanks for the love and kindness ALWAYS
Justmom

Congrats on the anniversary, dear 'Mom and FC (peace to you, both!). We'll "celebrate" this weekend!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

As always, justmom, I rather like your posts. Plain direct speaking goes down well with me.

I wasn't in a position yesterday where I could get back to you with anything here at all, and I won't have a lot of time today either but I will answer that post of yours from a couple of days or so ago, justmom. I haven't read most of page 7 yet.

Thanks for prefacing one of your posts with one of mine, in purple too! Wow! My iPhone had a field day, didn't it? Lol! Duplicating everything over and over again! Goodness knows how that happened!

More a bit later when I don't have to be on the iPhone!

Loved the descriptions of you on page 8. You may not realise it but you and I do have more in common than you probably thought! Chop wood? A doddle! Break in new ground? Yup. Build? Done that. Manage farm animals large and small, keep the family self sufficient in fruit and veg, milk (yes, I used to milk by hand though it was actually goats not cows), raise chickens, ducks, geese, done all that and much more.

Not now though, but you'd still be surprised at some of the things I do.

More later.

The point is that we are human Tammy and no matter how much we try, we still are human and all that comes with that.
Look, Adam, Abe, Isaiah, Elijah, Paul, Peter, John, etc. all of them heard our Lord, saw Our Lord and they still didn't get everything right.
We are simply human and must recognize that we CAN and WILL get things wrong and not even know it.

As Paul said:
My conscience is clear BUT it is The Lord that judges me.

I hear you... on all of this! I truly DO love waitressing. My back is fine (so far, lol)... but my hands take the brunt, and at some point they won't be able to do it anymore, I think. (could be wrong) But I am BEAT after a long shift. Only recently, was I confronted with the thought that I won't be able to keep it up forever. I will have to find something else at some point too.


And also congrats on your anniversary. Love you both.



Peace,
tammy

I am not arguing with that point, at all. Just with your conclusions from it... because your conclusions suggest (to me) that we cannot put faith in what we hear from Him as being true; because we cannot hear Him accurately.

Again, I may be misunderstanding you.



When we rely upon our own thinking and understanding... we may and most likely WILL get things wrong. When we rely upon Him, and HE speaks to us, then we CAN put faith in what we hear from Him, and know that what HE has spoken IS true.

Adam listened to someone else over God.
Abraham, Isaiah, Elijah... not sure what you are seeing there? (unless you are thinking about wars fought?)
Paul, Peter, John... made mistakes when listening to their own understanding (or what their former 'rulers' had taught them)... but Christ DID correct them. They learned the difference between listening to themselves... verses... listening to Him.




WE most certainly can get things wrong. But we can also KNOW if we are wrong, and instead learn and know the truth, by listening to Christ.

I don't know something is true just if I think or reason that it is true. Or if it is taught and accepted by others, or if it is taught and accepted in theology (which may often sound quite reasonable). But I can know something is true if my Lord teaches, tells, shows me. If I hear it from Him, then I know that I can put my full faith in Him, and so in what He tells me.





How are you applying this? Because I don't think that it (or the 'dim' view that he also spoke of) means what you seem to be suggesting.


I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing, at all, so I hope that you are not frustrated by this discussion. But what you are saying suggests (to me) that we cannot put faith in Christ or anything that we hear from him.

How do you know that your understanding on this matter is correct?


Peace to you!!

tammy

Yes, but was their errors EVER the result of their not hearing correctly... or relying on their OWN interpretation, dear P (peace... and I'd like to weigh in, too, dear one, but PLEASE don't think we're gangin' up on you, luv - you know we wouldn't do that!)... or disobeying WHAT they heard? For Adham, we know he heard RIGHT... and CHOSE to disobey. I'm not sure what you mean as to Abe, Isaiah, and Ezekiel... except perhaps they didn't receive what they hoped for during their lifetimes... but were they ever promised they would or wouldn't... during their lifetime? Or were they just told it WOULD occur... and they HOPED it would during their lifetime? Like us (if it comes, wonderful; if not, doesn't change anything. Would be nice, though, yes, but I'm not the One to say, so...)?

Paul AND Peter suffered from the same problem, relying on their OWN understanding... rather than LISTENING... to what CHRIST... SAID:

Re dear Peter, first:

"Hey, Pete, look, I know you'se one'a my homies, but time's gonna come when all that stuff I told you about... you know... with the Sanhedrin and Romans and all... will start happening. I want YOU to know that that will include you denying to know me. But, but it's okay, man. I love YOU... and so I won't take it personal. You will deny me, but it'll be all good, man. You'se my peeps."

"DENY you?! Maaaan... I mean, Lorrrrd... what'chu talkin' 'bout?! No, I won't! We COOL, man, and I ain't no punk! You KNOW what I can do with a sword, right?! An' I ain't scared o' no Romans. Let someone mess wit'chu - might find themselves pickin' they head up off the flo'! Or at least an ear! Nohmsayin'?"

"No, you ain't no punk, I know, but yeah, my friend, you will deny me. I'm TELLIN' you, you WILL, man."

"No, I WON'T, Lord! Like YOU said, "I'm your FRIEND! I wouldn't DO that to you! I ain't no rat!"

"Nahh, man, you ain't. Look, I know you'se my friend, and I love that about you, man... but you WILL, Pete. You will deny me... and you'll do it THREE times, man! Before that ol' rooster over at Farmah Johnson's crows, you gon' do it. I'm TELLIN' ya, man. But watch; you'll see."

"My MAN... I'm... HURT! How can you SAY that?! You KNOW me, Lord. Heck, I KNOW ME! And I say I WON'T deny you!"

"Dude, it's cause I DO know you that I say it. You gonna do it, man. You are. But... I ain't mad at'cha."

Our dear Lord grabs dear Pete's hand, they bump shoulders, then engage in a "man hug." Dear Pete rolls his eyes, thinkin':

"Why dude ALWAYS got to be so SERIOUS all the time!? All this, 'I gotta die for you dudes' stuff! I keep tellin' him that stuff ain't gotta happen. Heck, AIN'T gonna happen! He ain't GOT to die! Shoot... I wouldn't, at least, not for THESE yahoo Jews/Israelites! Now he sayin' I'm gonna DENY him?! He[i] really don't KNOW me!"[/i]

A bit later, after our dear Lord is arrested, someone points at dear Pete and says:

"Hey, weren't YOU with that guy, the one they arrested?"

"Who, ME? With HIM?? Heck, no!"

"Sure you were! I saw you with him the other day!"

"Look, guhl, I don't know WHO you THINK you saw, but you ain't seen ME! You need to stop yo' lyin'!"

"I ain't lyin'! YOU lyin'! I saw you with him down at the sto'! It was YOU! I KNOW... 'cause you wuz wearin' that same ol' tired robe you wearin' NOW... with that SAME tzasiki stain on the blue part of your fringe! Don't tell ME - I'm a fashionista... and I KNOW when a scrub like you ain't changed his clothes!"
Dear Pete adjusts his robe to hide the "It was not ME! I'm tellin' ya'll... I don't KNOW that guy!"[/i]

Then... cock-a-doodle-doooooooo!

Then you have Paul-y:

Our dear Lord: "STOP judging!"

Dear Paul-y: "Judge the man on the inside! Remove him from the congregation!"

And SO much more before HE learned to stop listening to himself... and the voices of his FORMER teachers!




I don't think dear tec (peace, luv!) is deny THAT, dear one. I certainly am not. What we're SAYING, though, is YES: when you rely on YOURSELF... and lean upon your OWN understanding... absolutely. Not only CAN you get things wrong, but often WILL get things wrong. AND... most often you WON'T know it. It's called... hypocrisy and/or a LACK of faith.

On the OTHER hand, what we are sharing with you is that when one STOPS leaning upon his/her OWN understanding... and turns to and listens to CHRIST... one will NOT get things wrong. One will ABSOLUTELY hear truth... and know it IS truth. One can, however... CHOOSE... NOT to listen TO such Truth/truth. As Adham did. But that is not a MISTAKE - that is a CHOICE.

I hope this helps you, dear one...understand what we MEAN... even if you don't AGREE (with the assertion).

Peace to you and your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Now that... was hilarious Shelby!!!

So true,

Thanks for the laugh

Love ya Justmom

I enjoyed that too, Shelby, though it took a minute or so to adjust. Mentally I turned it into a film, then I got it!

You can't dives yourself from interpretation, that is my point.
We THINK we can, but we can't.

That is why we always tell people to ASK Christ and to never take our understanding as anything else than opinion because, well, that is what it is:
Our opinion on how we interpreted what Christ says to Us.

Just as Paul did and the reason I quote that part where Paul says : My conscience is clear but it is the Lord that judges me, is because Paul believed that what he said was of the Lord BUT he was also aware that he was only human and would/did make mistakes hence his understanding that while he may BELIEVE to have a clear conscience in the matters of the Lord, in the end the Lord would be the one to judge him in those matters.

As is the case with ALL of us.

It isn't really a question of can we trust Our Lord but that we must be aware that you don't always understand or interpret correctly ALL He says.
The bible is full of examples of that.
God doesn't expect us to get it all right and be perfect, I think the best we can do is get it "good enough".

Is it possible, dear, dear P (peace, and please bear with me, here, dear brother...), that we tell people to ask our dear Lord... so that they hear it directly from HIM (what we shared, which is NOT our own opinion)... TOO... RATHER than just from US... so that they LEARN to listen to him, TOO... in which case, we ALL... as a BODY... move closer to fulfillment of the prophecy of the NEW Covenant, that:

“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares JaHVeH.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know JaHVeH,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares JaHVeH"... Jeremiah 31:33-34

... which knowing OF JaHVeH they can/will HAVE... by KNOWING His Son and Word, our dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... Who such ones might COME to know... BY going TO That One, listening to HIM, learning HIS voice, so that at some point, they don't NEED another to share what THEY received WITH them... because THEY will now receive it from That One... and KNOW it is from him... because THEY now KNOW his voice... TOO?

Is it possible that THAT is why some of us say, for instance, "You don't have to take MY word for it; just ASK for yourselves"... so as to receive directly from him... TOO?

I can't comment as to anyone else... but that is absolutely, totally, and SOLELY the reason I tell people to ask our dear Lord and NOT take my word for what I share, dear one. There really is no other reason.

I hope this helps!

As always, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar, who rarely says "I THINK this is the truth" or "I BELIEVE this is the truth"... and NEVER says such regarding things received from the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... as that would be a lack of faith IN what That One SAID... and so, in HIM...

How do you know that Paul? From whom did you learn this?



Paul, I don't tell people to go to Christ because my understanding is just my opinion. What would be the point in saying that I received 'something' from Christ, if it was my own opinion? (and if we just share what Christ gives to us... there is no interpretation involved) I tell people to ask Christ so that they can know from HIM... and not follow ME. So they can learn from HIM.

Now it is true that man can make mistakes; and also lie; and also add their own interpretation... something that comes from not listening to Christ, and can be overcome BY listening to Christ. So you may not be able to know if I am speaking something true based on my own word, or claim that I received it from Christ. Because you can know if something is true... if you hear the same from Him, the Truth.




Are you sure Paul is speaking of his spoken words... or his deeds, his heart, his motivations? Sounds like Paul is simply leaving judgment (and praise if it is coming) to Christ and not worrying about it, himself.



We should not be interpreting what He says... not with our own reasoning... but rather we should listen and ask HIM to explain what he says if we do not understand. We should simply share as He has said.

Then there is no interpretation... it is just as He has given it to us. So that we KNOW we can put faith in exactly what He has said... we can KNOW that it is true... and others can go to Him to know the same truth.




I know there are such cases in there as people were learning... or listening to someone else (including themselves) and 'interpreting' what they were taught/told.

But I'm not sure what other examples you are speaking of? Like from Isaiah and the like that you mentioned earlier?




Might 'good enough' have been what his disciples got... who remained in Jerusalem when it was surrounded by the Roman army? While others got the truth... and so got out in time?



I agree with you that we cannot trust our own interpretation, Paul. Totally agree. Religion is interpretation (sometimes of what is written; sometimes of tradition). Theology is interpretation. Nothing is true based on our interpretation. But what Christ SPEAKS... is TRUTH; not interpretation. We don't have to add to it... we can receive JUST as He gives, and share just as we receive.



Peace to you, as always, my brother in Christ,

tammy