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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:08 am 
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tec wrote:
Odd. When someone asks me a question... I just... answer it. If it was rhetorical and wrong... well, answering it will show that to the person questioning and anyone reading.

Because Char, you are doing in your post above the VERY thing that you are accusing JM (and Shelby, and me, by extension) of doing to you.

Telling her what she is doing and why she is doing it.

Can you see that?

Peace,
tammy


Well, you might answer every question asked you no matter by whom, but I certainly don't.

I can spot a false spirit when I hear one and I will not engage with one.

Wide open opportunity that some spirits will gleefully pounce on, as has happened above. Not for me.

As I have said, if you voice-hearers are not clinically insane, you are talking to spirits, or suffering mads hallucination ( see Oliver Sacks' book on that aubject) but you are NOT talking to Jesus.

I am not going to respond to the taunts of such spirits.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:55 am 
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Isn't it so difficult to accept that the person that penned the above reply to Tec also wrote the post below just a few months earlier.


Chariklo wrote:
CHARIKLO SAID

I originally started to post this over on JWN in the current thread mocking this very subject, but was stopped in time by my own "instinct" or in this case an external reminder, not a physical voice but a thought so strong it could have been...this (JWN) is not the place. Pearls before swine flashed into my mind, and NO. I am not likening JWN posters to swine. It's merely an analogy.

As posters here know, I've been pondering for some time on this question of hearing the voice of God.

Unsurprisingly, perhaps, most people over on JWN decry any thought of this being other than an unwell condition, or else vanity or delusion. I've come to realise it's anything but. As soon as I started to study Shelby's posts I realised...recognised!...that some of this was straight from our Lord, through Shelby, yes, but the source was clear to me. I've seen nothing to change my mind.

It is a well-accepted and established tradition in many branches of Christianity that one can listen in prayer and also receive an answer in prayer. Such an answer may come in many forms, anything from an apparent absence of response to getting a strong feeling, even just a sense of disquiet on a matter, or a flood of peace, and sometimes a clear vision or a direct voice. All those things are well-attested.

This morning, first thing, while reflecting (with excited interest) on another subject, I suddenly realised that I've been hearing the voice of The Lord for years, for most of my life. It's the same thing. In my tradition, we don't talk of hearing a voice. We might say "it came to me in prayer" or "it became clear to me" or "I felt strongly impelled" ...you'll have seen me say that...or, just occasionally, "God told me" or "it was as if I heard a voice".

It is all the same thing. Maybe I will just put a brief note to that effect over there as well. In due course.



Loz x

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:15 am 
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Loz wrote:
Isn't it so difficult to accept that the person that penned the above reply to Tec also wrote the post below just a few months earlier.


Chariklo wrote:
CHARIKLO SAID

I originally started to post this over on JWN in the current thread mocking this very subject, but was stopped in time by my own "instinct" or in this case an external reminder, not a physical voice but a thought so strong it could have been...this (JWN) is not the place. Pearls before swine flashed into my mind, and NO. I am not likening JWN posters to swine. It's merely an analogy.

As posters here know, I've been pondering for some time on this question of hearing the voice of God.

Unsurprisingly, perhaps, most people over on JWN decry any thought of this being other than an unwell condition, or else vanity or delusion. I've come to realise it's anything but. As soon as I started to study Shelby's posts I realised...recognised!...that some of this was straight from our Lord, through Shelby, yes, but the source was clear to me. I've seen nothing to change my mind.

It is a well-accepted and established tradition in many branches of Christianity that one can listen in prayer and also receive an answer in prayer. Such an answer may come in many forms, anything from an apparent absence of response to getting a strong feeling, even just a sense of disquiet on a matter, or a flood of peace, and sometimes a clear vision or a direct voice. All those things are well-attested.

This morning, first thing, while reflecting (with excited interest) on another subject, I suddenly realised that I've been hearing the voice of The Lord for years, for most of my life. It's the same thing. In my tradition, we don't talk of hearing a voice. We might say "it came to me in prayer" or "it became clear to me" or "I felt strongly impelled" ...you'll have seen me say that...or, just occasionally, "God told me" or "it was as if I heard a voice".

It is all the same thing. Maybe I will just put a brief note to that effect over there as well. In due course.



Loz x


So? Your point?

That post was made probably late last October, when I was still recovering from the Jehovah's Witnesses, having walked away from them only recently back then, when I had left the secularist forum where the taunts had been from those hurling ridicule at believers in God, and had very recently found and joined this forum. My rose-coloured spectacles were firmly in place and I took this forum at face value, its face being the one presented to newcomers, of a group of people who appeared, like me, to have been scarred by Jehovah's Witnesses, and were following Jesus. In those initial weeks, I tried very hard to fit in and accommodate myself even to the apparently bizarre ideas that continued to show themselves.

Now, Loz, are you seeking applause for so carefully and painstakingly trawling through old threads to find something with which you thought you would "catch me out"? Did you think you could expose me as someone who says different things at different times? Looks that way to me!

My goodness, you've just told us an awful lot about yourself! Is it the latest big game planned out in Shelby's secret rooms to which those of us sat outside on the naughty step are not invited?!

Thank goodness that those of us who are honest and sincere do allow ourselves to learn from observation and experience, and as we learn, honestly alter and express our views accordingly. Thank goodness!

Now, Loz, did you have any further point to make concerning my nine-or-ten-month-old post? Would you care to enlighten us all?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:24 am 
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Chariklo wrote:
tec wrote:
Odd. When someone asks me a question... I just... answer it. If it was rhetorical and wrong... well, answering it will show that to the person questioning and anyone reading.

Because Char, you are doing in your post above the VERY thing that you are accusing JM (and Shelby, and me, by extension) of doing to you.

Telling her what she is doing and why she is doing it.

Can you see that?

Peace,
tammy


Well, you might answer every question asked you no matter by whom, but I certainly don't.

I can spot a false spirit when I hear one and I will not engage with one.

Wide open opportunity that some spirits will gleefully pounce on, as has happened above. Not for me.

As I have said, if you voice-hearers are not clinically insane, you are talking to spirits, or suffering mads hallucination ( see Oliver Sacks' book on that aubject) but you are NOT talking to Jesus.

I am not going to respond to the taunts of such spirits.


Just bumping this up for Loz, and probably for the benefit of justmom and Tec and certainly Shelby, though that's a lost cause...we are told to discern the spirits.

There is only One God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. However, there are many false spirits. False spirits are not the work of mere fiction. They exist and are here.

We are told to discern the spirits. For those who know Jesus, it's not difficult.

I will not engage with false spirits nor answer their questions.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:17 am 
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Trying to get this back on track...

RE: Death.
No, I don't think that God created death.
My question here is in regards not to DEATH ( the lack of life/end of life) but the personification of death.

Shel, you seem to be implying that the PERSON Death ( the being, not the "state") was not created but has always been, basically making him eternal like God, in short, making him God.
You seem to be implying that the PERSON Death existed BEFORE The Son of God through which ALL (else) came to be.
Is this correct?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:43 am 
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Death, of course, is not a person, but the process and act of dying. Death is momentary, though bin many cases it is long and drawn out.

Once dead, a person is dead in whichever way one's belief takes one.

Death as a person is either a literary device or the result of efforts by some simple or primitive cultures to come to grips with the big questions of life and death.

Or, perhaps the preference of many, Death on a motorbike, father of Susan, on the Discworld emerging from the inventive brain of Terry Pratchett.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:00 am 
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Actually, I have no issues with the personification of Death, it is biblical ( to a certain extent).
My query to Shelby is that she seems to be implying that the personification of death is eternal like God and existed before The Divine Word through which ALL was created.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:21 am 
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Lol, I don't have issues...that word again!...with it, Paul, I merely agree with you in what you said yesterday, that it is very surprising to see Shelby asserting as a fact that Death is a being, on this forum.

Extremely surprising in any other Christian environment. Here...well....it's just one more bizarre notion among the rest!

I'm fine with a bit of fun! (Which some are enjoying since this came to light!) I'm just not ok with it being preached as fact and as part of Chritianity...but this isn't a Christian forum. This is unique, a Jehovah's Witness cum New Age cum spiritualism forum, a treasury of serendipity and neurological pathology.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:24 am 
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Chariklo wrote:
Lol, I don't have issues...that word again!...with it, Paul, I merely agree with you in what you said yesterday, that it is very surprising to see Shelby asserting as a fact that Death is a being, on this forum.

Extremely surprising in any other Christian environment. Here...well....it's just one more bizarre notion among the rest!

I'm fine with a bit of fun! (Which some are enjoying since this came to light!) I'm just not ok with it being preached as fact and as part of Chritianity...but this isn't a Christian forum. This is unique, a Jehovah's Witness cum New Age cum spiritualism forum, a treasury of serendipity and neurological pathology.


There is no need to take that tone or to word things in such a way.

As for the personification of death being surprising in a christian environment, I am surprised at your surprise.
Revelation personifies death.
The "grim reaper" is a "mainstay" of mainstream christian writings, from Milton to Dante to so many others.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:31 am 
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Really? Interesting...illuminating, even!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:29 am 
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I think the point in Loz's post, Char.. is that you have BECOME the mocker that you were decrying in your post. The very reason you did not want to make your post on jwn, is the same reason that some will no longer speak openly here on certain matters that they might want to share, or ask questions about.

Maybe you can see and understand that?


On topic... I don't know and have not heard all about this in regard to death from my Lord... but I do see death as an entity, and have no problem understanding that. (I'm also remembering the great nothing from the neverending story ; ) ) But we have reference to Abaddon/Apollyon in Revelation... and death went through Egypt in regard to firstborn sons. Death is also an enemy, the last enemy, and is destroyed.

Peace,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:39 am 
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Maybe I can see and understand that, Tammy?

Oh...let me see....am I clever enough? On this board, probably not.

Maybe you can see that?

I hope that helps.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:12 am 
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No. I did not think that you would even TRY to see. It was not an insult about your intelligence or smarts... just hoping that you might see what you are doing. But I cannot make you see, that is not within my power... so I hoped that (as Loz also hoped, I assume) that your own words might show you.

Peace,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:13 am 
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tec wrote:
No. I did not think that you would even TRY to see. It was not an insult about your intelligence or smarts... just hoping that you might see what you are doing. But I cannot make you see, that is not within my power... so I hoped that (as Loz also hoped, I assume) that your own words might show you.

Peace,
tammy



Yes, exactly Tammy. Especially as the insulting comments get worse every day. And now this latest:



Quote:
Extremely surprising in any other Christian environment. Here...well....it's just one more bizarre notion among the rest!

I'm fine with a bit of fun! (Which some are enjoying since this came to light!) I'm just not ok with it being preached as fact and as part of Chritianity...but this isn't a Christian forum. This is unique, a Jehovah's Witness cum New Age cum spiritualism forum, a treasury of serendipity and neurological pathology.


Judgemental, insulting, mockery from one claiming to be part of Christ's body, leaves me cold. Where are the fingers pointing back now? Especially since the attacks only started because some of us here won't pay homage to the RCC.

Loz x

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:21 am 
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Death personified:
1 Cor 15:55: Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?
Rev 6:8: I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him.


BTW: I do not claim to hear Christ, but I have heard enough evidence, not just from here, but elsewhere and recently, that others DO hear the voice of Christ and/or the Father. One I heard of recently, not related to anyone here, but was of a person who prayed and prayed and prayed for help and heard, "I will help you, my child." This was told to me by my JW mother of someone she knew who said she heard this. JWs do NOT claim to hear ANY voice, but my JW mother told me this and told me she believed the person.

Ps 17:6: I call on you, my God, for you will answer me; turn your ear to me and hear my prayer.
Ps 86:7: When I am in distress, I call to you, because you answer me.

Based on experiences of those here and this other completely unrelated experience, I have no reason to doubt they do hear from either Christ or the Father or both. It is most certainly not my place to say that what they hear is not Christ or not the Father because I simply do not have authority to dispute anyone's claims in that regard. I feel that if we read the Bible and believe that folks like Jeremiah, Isaiah, Moses, Abraham, Paul, etc. actually were spoken to by the Father and/or Christ, why would they not speak to people today? It makes no sense to me that they would be completely silent. By the same token, it is important to test what is heard and not simply dismiss it right away.

1 John 4:1: Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Ultimately, we may dismiss it because it didn't pass our own testing of it. And that's okay. We are free to believe or not believe. It was never stated (to my knowledge) that one had to believe every single facet of the Bible in the same way. We simply should not let our different ways of viewing these things cause division. So, whether we believe that death is a person or not is not really an issue. We must, however, believe in the Father, in Christ, in his sayings, that he came in the flesh, that he was raised from the dead.


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