xjwsforChrist

Well, yes, I do, dear one (again, peace to you!); I'm not sure YOU do, though. I mean, I know why you say you CAME... but that seems to have changed (maybe not, but seems so). Now, I'm trying to understand why you are HERE... from YOUR perspective. Why YOU believe you are here. And not from my current perspective, so I'm asking). I didn't really expect you to answer, clearly, of course, as I stated. But I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt and not assume.



Thank you, truly. Again, I didn't want to assume, so thank you for taking the time to share with me/us one more time.



That's interesting to me. Really. I will refrain from saying why, for now, though.



Yes, I recall you telling me this. Thank you for doing so again, truly.



Yes.



Again, I ask because I know why you CAME, including your "certainty" about my hearing Christ. And one comment you made about that is that at that time you hadn't heard/read/seen anything that had changed your mind. Now, though, you often make comments that imply you HAVE heard/read/seen things that has changed your mind, including with reference to ME. So, I am curious as to why you are (still) HERE. I know why you CAME... even if you don't.



I don't think I need to respond to that other than to say that your own words are very revealing... and no, "amusement" is not a word I would use in association with you, dear one. They/you sometimes concern me... for a numbers of reasons... perhaps. But not "amuse/amusement", no.



I am going to choose to leave that assertion alone.



That one, too.



And that one, other than to say I did not perceive an attack, not at all. I responded to what you stated... not what I might have thought you did (which I didn't).



I am not so sure you understand the difference between these, but it's not worth going into at this time, IMHO.



It is. You do recall that "one finger pointing way, four fingers pointing back" comparison you recently made to another dear one, yes? A good analogy here. Although, I would offer that there's only three fingers pointing back ('cause I'm pedantic that way).



So, you come here to be amused? I mean, no problem if that is the case. I was just curious as to what IS the case, is all.



Not now, no... but I'm not sure that's always the case.



I did not take offence at ALL, dear Char. I did not feel attacked or ANYTHING like that. Again, I was just curious. And, again, I did not think I would get a real response. No worries, though; again, I know why you're here, as well as why you came here... even if YOU don't. I even think I shared that with you once before.

Seriously, you did not offend me. I just tend to "speak" to YOU as you tend to "speak" to me and others. Giving you what you "want." That's it, that's all, truly,

Again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

Shellama

Justmom, thank you for your efforts to help bridge a gap.

I think that perhaps it is the difference in our backgrounds that leads us to consider the same passages but see them differently. Although I can see that you see these passages in the light of your own interpretation, to my mind I see them as doing nothing to confirm it as against what I've already said on the subject.

In reality, I think that in fact we see them very much alike, and I am quite sure that your motives and mine are very close together too.

I truly think that this is not really an argument, more like splitting hairs. To my mind, it's all best left at this point. I don't know what you think?

Does that suit you?

Thanks again, anyway.


Yes Char,

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.
I actually was trying to present verses so that you could see that it was not MY interpretation but that in the two comments you said different things as to sin and the flesh.
But it's okay, my understanding differs and it has nothing to do with JW background because they believe similar to the RCC on this one.
No problem...

Moving on!
Justmom

Shelby,

I think you have watched too many courtroom dramas.

Justmom,

Although we may and do differ in niceties of doctrine and understanding, and although you may not see it, you and I are not far apart.

I have no argument with you whatsoever.

I don't know if I'd say too many, dear Char (mornin' and peace to you!). When I do, it's usually the pretty good ones (Law and Order and that genre). When I DO watch I can detect the BS in them about 99% of the time, too, though. Due to my law education. Used to drive hubby bonkers when I watched with him (he's actually the police/courtroom drama junkie - I just happen to be in the room at the time because the computer's there). He would be all into the drama and I would go "Okay, now, you know that would never happen in RL, right?" or "You know why he/she just said that, right?" (a LOT of artistic license on such shows sometimes). Now he says he LOVES watching with me because of what HE learns - LOLOLOL!

I actually prefer some of the female-related reality shows. I have recently become FASCINATED with how women in general apparently think/act/comport themselves/treat others, etc., particularly in the western world (though I am made to think it's not much different elsewhere). It's like going back to middle school and re-meeting some of those same girls... and now going "Ahhhhhh, yes, I remember". 'Cause I missed SO much of that particular part of my education. Had my nose in too many books at the time, I guess.

Helps me TOTALLY understand why we, as a gender, are SO confusing to men. We're confusing to me, too. We rarely say what we MEAN... and then when we're called on it we turn it into something different entirely. You know, so we don't look like we're wrong... when we really are? And we rarely apologize when we ARE wrong. Rather, we dismiss or deflect... or try to make it look like someone else was wrong... yet, demanding apologies (and the sympathy/loyalty of others) when we are/feel "wronged." Well, some of us. Many of us. I would venture to say, most of us.

And we often treat each other horribly, unlike men who tend to put their "love of brother" almost before anything and everyone else. Until they get married... and then "we" screw that up for them.

Fascinating.

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellama

I'm sure learning on here a few things I thought I understood back in JW misery days. Several pages to go and have a question or two but will check in later.

Please do, dear Abs! Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Christ's brothers --- those who are his followers or profess to be Christians?

This must mean something else (Christ's brothers) because one who has Christ living inside them is a new creature (1 Cor 5?) and is to show kindness and mercy to all --- even their enemies.

Don't want to get off the main topic if it's complicated or more than a one liner. Thanks.

LOLOLOL! I will try to keep it brief, then, dear Abs (peace to you!). Two groups make up Christ's brothers:

1. First and foremost, those who are his brothers by blood that is holy spirit... and MANIFEST that union (of blood) by doing the will of HIS Father, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies (Matthew 12:46-50; Luke 8:20, 21); and

2. Secondly, those who are his brothers by being of Abraham's seed, and particularly Israel... by human blood.



A new creation, yes, in that they are made ANEW by means of now having God's blood in them... which speaks in a BETTER way that the [kind of] blood that was in... and spoke for... Abel Hebrews 12:24). We must keep in mind, though, that although "new"... because of having been RE-generated GOD'S blood and seed... there is still growth to be done. As with any newly conceived "man." As a CHILD, even Christ had to LEARN to CHOOSE the good and reject the bad (Isaiah 7:14-16). That's why we see [a lot of] "growth" on the part of both Peter and Paul! Neither were immediately transported into "perfection" (meaning, being perfect in love... which is the fulfillment of the "kindness and mercy" you mention) directly upon being called/receiving holy spirit - LOLOLOL! None are. All are LED in that direction and to that end. Not thrown into it.

Hence, Christ is TEACHING us peace... teaching us how to BE... in HIS peace... and so, SUBDUING us. But it doesn't happen overnight/immediately, unfortunately. Of course, it occurs quickly for some, but perhaps not so much for others. These tend to have zeal and other things prolonging their "training." I most probably fall into the latter category, although I have to say I do try. I usually fail when I perceive my Lord being attacked/maligned/slandered, in which case it takes me a bit of time to recover. While I don't hold attacks against ME against a person, I tend to become a bit... ummmm... wary of them when they bring my Lord into it or attack me BECAUSE of him. As I result, I don't always trust THEIR "kindness" for some time afterward.

Praise JAH, though, that there is a savior as I, for one, certainly need him! S'why I keep sharing as and what I do! In the "hopes that"... as to me and MY household!

Peace, dear Abs!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

Peace and love to you, dear Shel and thank you for your reply. Your answer makes sense. Seems when a watchtower follower Christ's bros were the 144,000 and one time an acquaintance/friend (JW) was upset at another JW and used this scripture about Christ's brothers (referring to herself) and I really got confused.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound demanding for an abbreviated answer but didn't want to break up the topic's flow with my rudimentary question. I always appreciate your thorough answers.

Thanks so much.

You didn't sound demanding at ALL, dear Abs (peace!). I KNOW me... and that I can be (okay, am) verbose, so I have NO problem when someone says "Keep is brief/simple, stup... uh, Shel!" LOLOLOLOL! But that's kinda the only way I can do it: when someone asks/reminds me to. Otherwise... ALL that is "in" me on a topic is subject to come out. And sometimes... it's a LOT! LOLOLOLOL!

Peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Thank goodness for Christ's patience when teaching someone like me.

I give you and Tammy credit when you go thru the attack/debates and endure like you do (and others onboard here)! I would seldom read thru those tenacious debates on other board but click the off button and that's a cop-out but I run from adversity. For one thing I definitely don't have the knowledge you possess and just want answers --- easy way out, I know, and obviously why I was an easy watchtower target! It's one big commitment to follow Christ and learn and learn and learn from him plus stand your own ground. Some of you excel.

I appreciate Chariko's comments regarding her Catholic beliefs and the debate that transpires reflecting differences -- it's great ones can agree to disagree and carry on with maturity/respect even though there's bound to be rough edges to deal with. No one knows all the answers (I would think).

I appreciate your knowledge, Shel, and others here, also, and need to spend more time online - seriously!
Thanks.

Thank you, Abstract, for that, and for your courage and honesty and even-handedness on this board. Saying you appreciate me and my Catholic beliefs takes some nerve on this forum! Not even all those who do support me privately dare say so here! A cursory glance at what comes my way from the usual source says it all!

Thank you!

I don't think that that's a fair statement, dear Char (peace!). We respected and regarded EVERYONE who came here... even those YOU wanted banned (although having broken no forum rules). I personally gave you great regard and credence, again, asking others to do the same... until you decided it was okay to attack our beliefs. Please stop with the hypocrisy already? I mean, at least acknowledge that it was YOU who failed to "appreciate" others and their beliefs, long before anything was EVER said to you or about your Catholic beliefs. Our dear brother P (peace, dear one!) is Catholic and we've never had a problem, us from him or he from us. Same with dear GLT and Burns (peace to you both, as well!). Because all of THESE, while perhaps not agreeing with everything WE believe (although, it appears there is quite a bit they might)... allowed US the freedom to believe... and share... what we do as we do. You and one other are the only ones who failed in that. Even dear Chappy and EE, although known to us to be in disagreement, never attacked.

Please... CHECK YOUR HEART. Because then maybe you can see your hypocrisy... and that you are not a victim here. And that so long as you give others the very same regard as to THEIR beliefs as you wish to be given as to YOURS... you will have no reason to feel like one. Otherwise, you should feel no surprise... or offense... when YOUR beliefs are held up to the Light (that is Christ)... as you continually attempt to try and hold others' up (to the light you view things by).

SEE?? But, no, I don't think you do... yet. I pray, though, that you are given eyes to do so... if not ears to hear... and soon, though. For your own benefit, no one else's.

Peace.

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar