xjwsforChrist

Yes, of course.
And the thing is that AFTER we know Christ and KNOW what is truly SIN and we continue to sin, then we are getting close to blasphemy of the HS.

As Paul (Sacramento) also said... the teaching/training/subduing... is ongoing, in the here and now. As also Paul (formerly Saul) wrote:

"Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."

Peace,
tammy

What IS sin? Obviously my WTS upbringing says it is those things listed in 1 Cor 6:9,10:
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

What is sin?

Doing what is wrong KNOWING it is wrong, is sin.
Doing what is wrong NOT KNOWING it is wrong is ignorance.

The truth is that very few people are ignorant of what is wrong and the vast majority is sinful.

Sin is wrongdoing. Actions that do not come from love (such as stealing, lying, ignoring someone in need, etc)... are sins.


Sins committed in ignorance are still sins... just as crimes committed in ignorance are still crimes.

Christ will TEACH us about those though. The light (Christ) reveals the darkness, even in ourselves. Especially in ourselves. "Clean the inside of the cup."


Peace,
tammy

PaulS said....

As we live in Christ and sin ( and yes, we do continue to sin because we continue to be human) are union in Christ judges us and we judge ourselves with full knowledge of our sins and we (should) repent.


And the thing is that AFTER we know Christ and KNOW what is truly SIN and we continue to sin, then we are getting close to blasphemy of the HS.


Good morning,

I can't help but notice that the comments here sorta contradict each other.

I would agree that those who come into union with Chirst have their sins completely forgiven.
Now that does NOT say that we will NOT continue to sin as you mentioned. It is inevitable daily as ...

WE ARE SIN! The vessel we are in has " SIN and DEATH in it" because of Adam. This is why christ is called the continual daily sacrifice for us sins. Not a day goes by we do not sin.

Whether we know sin or not.....whether it is intentional or not....IT IS SIN! And we WILL, I promise, SIN even when we know it is wrong. In Jahs eyes, these are errors that ALL can be forgiven.

( remember the difference between needing the whole body washed verses the feet?)

Even if we are bodies are wholly clean, like Peter was because of being bathed in CHRIST, we are still going to need our feet washed. And for us actually daily ( spiritually speaking) realizing that we are still
going to transgress and become a little dirty needing cleansing, forgiveness on a daily basis.


Remember, there is ONLY ONE " unforgivable sin."
All the rest are forgiven.

NOW, NOW, this does not mean we have a license to go out and do whatever we want. Because those that are in union with CHRIST that have this spirit in them will have a conscience trained by spirit that will either " ACCUSE" us OR... " EXCUSE" us!

LOVE will be the determining factor as to how we treat others or ourselves as to what we do or say.

Is there truly LOVE in this?...

Might think twice!

But even then, we still will fall on many occasions.

But each of us has to answer to it consciences. And I personally hate it when I can't sleep at night.

That is MY judgement. It will eat at us if we are trying to live by CHRIST, EVEN if we know he has forgiven us, we still can reap the consequences of our decisions. And sometimes we do not realize how far down the line it can affect us and our loved ones.


I hope this helps,
Wanted to share. Which has made me realize again how wonderful and merciful our father in heaven is, and the provision he made by sending his only begotten son to help us through this journey through darkness and into His light by means of his sprint that can dwell us and all we have to do is ASK!

Its free! What wonderful Good News this is!

Love to you
Justmom

Well said, JM. Well said.


Peace,
tammy

I agree Just Mom, well said. I like this translation of Ephesians 4:

.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

My point is that those in Christ are far more acutely aware of sin then those out of Christ.
When we sin, it is a far graver sin then those outside of Christ.
"To those that much is given, much is asked..."
Do we all sin? of course, we can't help it, even the angels sinned.
Only God is perfect and without sin.

None of that changes that a sin in full knowledge of sin is worse than one of ignorance.

I'm not talking about sins that we do each day... I'm talking about "deliberate" sins, sins that we CHOOSE to do. For example, CHOOSING to drink a little too much, CHOOSING to view pornography, CHOOSING to divorce a spouse not on grounds of adultery, CHOOSING to lie, CHOOSING to murder (heaven forbid, but studies show that even the most mild person is capable of it given the right circumstances... look at Moses, Ex. 2:12), CHOOSING not to help someone in need for whatever reason.

Again, Hebrews 10:26,27 says for those who "deliberately keep on sinning", there is no longer any forgiveness of sins left.

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.

Rom 7:6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

It was the law I was under that taught me and made me acutely aware of what sin IS!

it was not CHRIST who did this!

It was HE who released me of this!


Rom 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

Rom 8:2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you [fn] free from the law of sin and death.

But even though Paul knew the spirit of life dwelled in him ( CHRIST) he still practiced sin. He did not like this in himself but he knew it was inevitable as long as he dwelled in this flesh.



Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

Rom 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

Rom 7:17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

Rom 7:18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. [fn] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

[Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.


Just a thought
Love to you my brother
Justmom

Greetings and peace to you all! LOVELY discussion! May I interject?

In Spanish, the word "sin" means "without." It is really the meaning of the word "sin" as being discussed here: without... God. When we do ANYTHING that is separate from... or separates US from... God... it is a sin. But JAH provided us with ten that kind of serve as a cover, a couple of which are rendered wrong. For instance, the Law isn't "Thou shalt not kill," but "Thou shalt not commit murder." NOT the same thing. Another is "Thou shalt not lie," which is NOT the command, but "Thou shalt not BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY BROTHER." (Excuse the archaic vernacular - just makes my point better, I think).

EVEN so... as dear 'Mom (peace, luv!) pointed out... NONE of these are unforgiveable. The woman brought to my Lord who had been CAUGHT... in the ACT... of adultery... knew very well it was a sin. And she knew what the Law "said" about such a situation. Yet, our dear Lord did not condemn her... but forgave her.

We WILL sin, even after having been cleansed so as to be taken into Christ's CLEAN Body. Paul initially had a problem with this, and so ran around trying to teach people that they should... and could... be WITHOUT sin. He found out, of course, due to his OWN flesh... that that is absolutely NOT the case, not while we're still in the flesh (with its blood).

JOHN, however, knew... and understood. And so HE wrote:

"I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—[Jesus] Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:1, 2

And this is the reason why we EAT the manna and drink the blood: to CONTINUE our cleansing! So long as we are IN UNION with Christ... we have no condemnation. And so Christ said:

"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me." John 6:56, 57

When you eat his flesh and drink his blood... you are DOING so... because you KNOW it's "sanctifying" PURPOSE! You KNOW it is the means by WHICH your sins are cleansed. You show that you are EXERCISING FAITH... IN that flesh (the "leaves" of the Tree [of Life] that is for CURING)... and blood ("living water")

WE become clean... by means of HIM... who IS clean! His BLOOD... which cleases us OF our sins! But how often does one want to be CLEANSED? How often does one want to be IN UNION with Christ? Once a year? Once a month? Daily? How often did the Israelites have to eat the manna... in order to KEEP living?

"Willful" sin is not sin that we give in to, even when we know better. David did that, yes? And Peter? WILLFUL sin is when on WILLFULLY TURNS AWAY... so AS to sin. "I can do this because Christ's blood will cover!" Versus, "I really don't WANT to do this, but my flesh is stronger than my spirit, so PLEASE... dear Lord... I am a sinner... PLEASE FORGIVE me!"

Then one starts over... as a clean "virgin"... once again. His blood covers ALL sins... for ALL time... except blasphemy against that blood (holy spirit)... or him AS the Holy Spirit.

We WILL sin. Sometimes knowingly. Of course, we WOULDN'T... if we were in complete control of our bodies, minds, and hearts. We are NOT. If we WERE... we wouldn't need a savior!! We could save ourselves.

Ask yourselves, dear ones: if the prodigal son left AGAIN... and yet, returned after some time, once again contrite and begging his father's forgiveness, would his father TRULY withhold his love from him? Would he say, "Hey, look, no, I welcomed you back once before, put you back in your rightful status... and you left me AGAIN, to go out into the world! No, sorry, you can't come back!"?

If Christ says that WE are to forgive OUR brothers' sins against US up to seventy times seven(ty) times... would HE not do so, as well? Even if we KNEW we were sinning?

People believe Judas has been judged and condemned. That Adham/Eve have been judged and condemned. That these will not be resurrected, were sent to "Hell", etc. Where, pray tell, are we told that?? We are not. What we ARE told is this:

1. Only ONE has been judged: the ruler of THIS world, our Adversary, the one called "Satan" and "Devil."

2. There will be a resurrection... of righteous AND the unrighteous. The righteous to life, the unrighteous to judgment. To say that someone will be resurrected to EITHER... is judging. We don't KNOW. And JAH shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it. To think that He would NOT show it to Adham... who is His SON (by "Hagar")... or to Judas (who DID repent)... is... dangerous. Because with the same judgment YOU judge... you will BE judged.

Bottom line... go FORGIVING... and you will BE forgiven. Period. Show mercy... and you will be SHOWN mercy. Period. Judge... and you will BE judged. Period.

That really is the bottom line for US, dear ones.

I hope that helps and, again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Justmom, you wrote that "We are sin".

Yet God Himself made us. Even more, Jesus himself told us that not a sparrow falls to the ground without him knowing, and that we are worth more to the Father than a sparrow. He taught us that God indeed was our Father in Heaven.

Therefore, since God made us, and we are His children, how can we be sin? Do you mean that God made us and therefore he made sin? Surely not!

Although we most definitely are NOT sin, by very definition, since we are his children, yet you are absolutely right in saying that we sin every day.we do. We are imperfect beings, and we inherit from Adam and Eve our natural concupiscence, our tendency to sin even when we do not mean to; we "fall into" sin as if by default.

Tammy, no, I remember a JW elder who insisted that wrongdoing was always sin even when there is ignorance. Really? A baby? A four-year old child? A seven-year-old child? A nine-year-old? One born with learning difficulties? An autistic adult? At what point do you draw the line? The law itself is not an ass, fortunately. The legal system in both our countries allows that, for many crimes, innocence in the sense of not knowing will make a difference, and will be taken into account.

How much more then will God do so! Almighty God is both just and merciful. We can be confident that He takes into account everything about a person. And Jesus makes it clear, that a prime requirement for that forgiveness is that we not only forgive others but do not put ourselves forward, or claim a higher place. Most of us know our place and will never take for granted our place in heaven. The horrifying state of those who are so sure that they are saved is not one I would care to contemplate and certainly not share.

Remember, it was Lazarus who went to heaven, not Dives. It was the wretched man who prayed at the back "Lord have mercy on me, a sinner" whom Jesus praised. It was the man who humbly took a lowly place at the table who was invited "Friend, come up higher".

Shelby said....

In Spanish, the word "sin" means "without." It is really the meaning of the word "sin" as being discussed here: without... God. When we do ANYTHING that is separate from... or separates US from... God... it is a sin.

Great points!!!

This one is real good. As you said, anything " without God" is sin.

Also the verse in 1 John 3:4
" Everyone who practices sin is practicing lawlessness. And so sin is lawlessness."

We are under a NEW law . The law of CHRIST which is based on Love.

To be without THIS law, or lawLESS...would be without the law of love. Or without CHRIST.
So anything that goes AGAINST love, which is what the new law is based on, would be going against CHRIST. Therefore, is sin.

Hope this made sense. So again shows the debt that we have towards Jah. And Chirst is willing to cover it all.

Thanks for this sharing Shelby
Love Justmom

Christ and God know all the factors... I never thought otherwise. I just meant to state that a sin is a sin, even if it is committed in ignorance. (same with crimes... though leniency and mercy can be shown, dependent upon all the factors) And as JM said, all sins, save one, may be forgiven. Whatever they might be.



Okay, I agree with you that if we want to be forgiven, then we must also forgive.

But the rest that you said "but do not put ourselves forward, or claim a higher place"... why do you say that is a requirement for forgiveness?


It could be grounds for being asked to move 'down the table', if it is a place that one has claimed for themselves, rather than the place Christ and God have given them. But I don't see where it is grounds for forgiveness. So could you show me where your grounds for thinking that comes from?


Peace,
tammy