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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:55 am 
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Funny, I don't see that anywhere, Sab.


Peace,
tammy


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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:38 pm 
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tec wrote:
Oddly enough... not being 'nice' is not a sin.


No-one said anything about it being a sin, Tammy.

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In fact, being nice is often at odds with being truthful. Because nice does not want to offend; nice wants to be "pc"; nice wants to tickle ears.


That's an interesting statement. That, Tammy, whether intentional or not, is a direct reproduction, word for word, I think, of something you must have heard or read somewhere, namely, in a Study Watchtower magazine, available only to active JW's. Since you weren't ever a JW, either you've heard it or read it from someone else, or someone has reproduced it on JWN, or you were attending JW meetings, as I was, within the last four years or so. I remember it in detail and recognise it. I remember the brother who took the Sunday Study Watchtower meeting, and he had to expand in what "tickle ears" meant as it is not a British expression. I'm not saying you consciously quoted it; I don't think you are ever even remotely dishonest, Tammy, far from it, but that is its derivation.

The reminder is apt, because I suspect the only person who thinks nice means pleasing the ears of others appears to be Shelby. Certainly I, and I think most other people, think that being nice means being friendly, not being deliberately unkind but still telling the truth in a tactful way that wraps up any hard truths extremely kindly, not that many hard truths are called for. Being nice means being true to yourself, and surely Shelby's actual real life friends are not continually receiving abuse and unkind insults?

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This thread was not an invitation for personal attack.


Where is the attack? I don't see one.

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One might think that we could find something better to do... to contribute TO this forum (that is of course unless you disagree with the purpose of this forum altogether, though why you would be here if that is the case, I do not know)... other than simply finding an excuse to cast a stone.


Who is that addressed to, please?


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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:48 pm 
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A friend of mine once said that being nice is being civil and being civil on an internet discussion forum means writing down would you would say FACE-TO-FACE to that person.


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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:50 pm 
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Nicely put,Paul! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Children are not born with the absence of Love but quite the opposite.

Sab, we are not saying that humans are born without Love. But it still is a choice that one can make as to whether or not they do choose to be Love or not. And the ONLY way to learn it perfectly ( without being perfect ourselves) is through Christ who is the image of the one who IS love!



Niceness is a Godly standard which has been laid down in Scripture for us all to follow.


Sab, being honest, not deceitful, without hypocrisy is a godly standard laid out in scripture. NICENESS is not a fruitage set out in scripture. All one has to do is look to Christ to see that perfect example.
When was he really nice? Verses truthful, loving, etc....


We only need look within to find the compassion that was designed into us through the process of evolution.


We only need to look to CHRIST, the one we should try to fashion ourselves after.

Genesis 1 states that God's creation is good or pleasing to His senses. That means that humans were created MORAL, GOOD and....... NICE! What's beautiful to God are the fruitages of the Spirit.


Yes, the fruitages of the spirit indeed!

NICE is not one of the nine.

Adam was created in gods image initially without sin. And god saw that " everything he had created was good"

Not NICE!

And having the total advantage over us as Adam had, being without sin initially, look at the choice he STILL MADE. He did NOT choose well. Imagine the disadvantage that we have. Thank goodness we have one that will cover over our sins where we fall continually.


Just a thought on the matter
Love to you
Justmom


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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:59 pm 
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Quote:
Where is the attack? I don't see one.



Here:

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Unless it was a call for sympathy from your fans here, readying yourself for an onslaught of "No, Shelby, we love you, you are nice!" etc.



The above is an attack on the people of this forum. It is a continuation of that same insult that has been brought up on many threads. That stops now. Seriously. I am done with it, and that is an admin call. Not a tec, the member, call.


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The reminder is apt, because I suspect the only person who thinks nice means pleasing the ears of others appears to be Shelby. Certainly I, and I think most other people, think that being nice means being friendly, not being deliberately unkind but still telling the truth in a tactful way that wraps up any hard truths extremely kindly, not that many hard truths are called for. Being nice means being true to yourself, and surely Shelby's actual real life friends are not continually receiving abuse and unkind insults?



Well, you should perhaps stop trying to judge Shelby's posts by what YOU think something means, when she has already explained what it means to her? So that you KNOW that she did not mean being unkind, or unloving... in her OP.


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Who is that addressed to, please?


That is addressed to the only two people ON this forum who have openly disagreed with the purpose of this forum... and that would be you and Sab.


Peace,
tammy


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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:20 pm 
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Quote:
In fact, being nice is often at odds with being truthful. Because nice does not want to offend; nice wants to be "pc"; nice wants to tickle ears.


That's an interesting statement. That, Tammy, whether intentional or not, is a direct reproduction, word for word, I think, of something you must have heard or read somewhere, namely, in a Study Watchtower magazine, available only to active JW's. Since you weren't ever a JW, either you've heard it or read it from someone else, or someone has reproduced it on JWN, or you were attending JW meetings, as I was, within the last four years or so. I remember it in detail and recognise it. I remember the brother who took the Sunday Study Watchtower meeting, and he had to expand in what "tickle ears" meant as it is not a British expression. I'm not saying you consciously quoted it; I don't think you are ever even remotely dishonest, Tammy, far from it, but that is its derivation.




Hello Char,

Not sure why this term is not familiar to you as it is NOT a JW term, it is a BIBLE term.


2 Timothy 4:3 catholic bible


3 The time is sure to come when people will not accept sound teaching, but their ears will be itching for anything new and they will collect themselves a whole series of teachers according to their own tastes;

NIV
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

Those that have " itching ears" want to be told what they want to hear not the real truth.
So they prefer their ears being tickled versus hearing the truth.

I think the point is clear regardless of the translation used.
Justmom


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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:37 pm 
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sabastious wrote:
Hate is the absence of love which perfectly describes your response, Shelby. Children are not born with the absence of love, but quite the opposite. They are born with NOTHING BUT love for whatever they touch. That love starts off in the womb where they develop emotional attachment to not only their environment, but the things within it such as the placenta. Humans are born nice and only through a systematic reconditioning can this be altered (something the destructive heresy of Original Sin accomplished).

Because I know this I remain intellectually honest when I inform my child that he lives with nice people. We set the example and we do a very good job as a matter of fact. However, we also teach our son that nice people sometimes act mean. We also teach him that being mean is a perfect opportunity to prove whether or not you are nice. Nice people act differently than mean people during and after being mean. For example nice people apologize which is what we teach our son to do and lead by example. This helps him understand that being a nice person doesn't require perfection which would be an unreasonable demand. Niceness is a Godly standard which has been laid down in Scripture for us all to follow. We only need look within to find the compassion that was designed into us through the process of evolution.

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he will grow up only to find out that MOST people are either NOT NICE or if they are nice, they are NOT TRUTHFUL. Most nice people that are nice most of the time have a lot to hide!


No, he will grow up confirming the understanding of people taught by his parents whom have more than adequate experience with them. You see, you don't have the travel to far away lands to understand the nature of people, they are all alike in fundamental ways. Those fundamentals are spelled out in Scripture rather eloquently in fact and are in the process of rigorous scientific study. Genesis 1 states that God's creation is good or pleasing to His senses. That means that humans were created MORAL, GOOD and....... NICE! What's beautiful to God are the fruitages of the Spirit.

That's why my child has been able to grasp the concept of niceness at such a young age. Because it's already in him, it just needs to be brought out and maintained. This is done by example and through education.

-Sab

___________

Thank you for sharing this, when you didn't have to.

It is appreciated.

Have a good, day.

~s-Kally~

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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:44 pm 
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I am not sure where the notion that a baby is born "nice and loving" came from, NO infant animal is "nice and loving", and human are no exception.
Babies can be the meanest little things, of course they don't realize it because at that stage they re working at 100% instinct for survival.
Ask any mother than has breast feed.

A loving child is a byproduct of nature yes AND of nurture, perhaps more nurture than nature according to some researchers.


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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Location: I dare you to close your eyes...
I think in Muslim teachings that babies are born without sin.

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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:54 pm 
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YppuplleH wrote:
I think in Muslim teachings that babies are born without sin.

Don't recall, BUT it is important to understand the notion of "original sin" doesn't mean that babies are born "bad" or something like that.
It means that humans are, since birth, predisposed to do what is not in their best interest, to basically, rebel and be selfish.
And LOVE is the only counter to that natural "selfish" impulse.


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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Quote:
It means that humans are, since birth, predisposed to do


Predisposed yes... because sin and death are in the flesh.

And I agree, it does not mean that babies have done anything 'bad'.

But if babies were born without sin and death in the flesh... then their flesh could not get sick and/or die.


It is not a punishment from God or anything of the like.

Peace,
tammy


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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Oh, and Muslims don't have original sin. (though I think some might have a variation, but that would be a personal interpretation) But they aren't actually saying too much different as an end result, as what Paul just said. However, from what i have seen, Muslims reject a lot of things in "christianity"... not because the original meaning was false, but because they are looking at the mainstream doctrine that has evolved, and have found that to be false.

Peace,
tammy


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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:07 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Why...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:11 pm 
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