xjwsforChrist

I find his delivery needs some fine tuning because I have to ask

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Then the little tiny few of you can sit and look at each other's posts and murmur "wonderful" and feel so smug that you've got rid of people who don't follow your path.


Char...

You really do not know me.

There is no joy at all IN me when someone attacks the voice and lead of my Lord and master and make claim that its not real!
I do not ever want you follow me. None of this IS about ME!

I will not...even if you think it's not Love of me, deny what I hear whether you choose to agree or not.
I have know all along when you thought I was so loving what religion is all about. I honestly felt when you said you had been hearing HIS VOICE your whole life, that this common thread would remain.
It was only until this voice disagrees with the RCC that it was no longer a real voice but delusion in my head.
I understand that my love for you is only if I do not disagree with the RCC, and share something different. No problem at all Char. I do understand really.

I do wish you love and peace always
Justmom

Char says


And she even thinks that the Watchtower is a religion! Seriously!

That's what JW's call it. I didn't think anyone else believed that.


Char...

Of course it's a religion Char.
A cult as well. Slavery as well.

And all part of that harlot that we are told to " Get out of"....

Along with ALL the other religions.

Slavery is slavery One might use a bigger ball and chain, but its still slavery!

Love Justmom

Re-read, Pup, noting others' responses too.....and the frantic locking of threads and tantrums and "ain't...gonna.....happen" 's.

Justmom, I do not know what your inner voice says or who is speaking. Only you know.

As to loving behaviour, it is you that misunderstood me not I you.

It's nothing whatsoever to do with the Catholic Church. That's the myth that's being passed about by a certain person. It is to do with your recent treatment of another on this forum, not of me, and not of the Church.

I don't find mockery and taunts attractive or loving, and while I am slightly amused to see Shelby now complaining about being mocked and about a mocking atmosphere (not a verbatim quote) it is altogether tragic both to see her brilliant mind reduced to this and to see you, and indeed Tammy, following her downhill into that kind of behaviour. This is all there on this forum, until Tammy erases my inconvenient posts again, as she has started doing, and locks threads.

Or maybe this forum! It's all got a bit too hot for Shelby.

I am not being nasty. Just telling it like it is.

-Sab

*shoots an arrow at the bird*

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To fear me is to love me....

Sab

Could of said this 12 pages ago! Then one could choose to agree or disagree and move on.
My goodness Sab

I do have love for you as always
Justmom

See what happens when mods and meds take a break!?! ;P

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

First, just in case it's not clear (peace to you all!)... contrary to the false accusation... dear tec (peace, luv!)... didn't delete a single post or lock a single thread. I did. Me. The board's co-owner. Yep. I mean, I don't LIKE to moderate... don't WANT to moderate... and so will avoid it at every opportunity. But, as I just shared with another dear one, "Sometimes, when the things on the ship become SO out of hand, the Captain MUST step up and take charge, especially when the XO and First Mate are absent... and the other sailors are either uncertain as to what to do, unwilling to do, or contemplating joining the mutiny."

Now, let's all get back to the topic, please, if we can, or at least a worthy topic that may be an offshoot from it?

For instance:



I am not so sure that this is entirely the problem, dear P (peace, luv!): my understanding is that the scribes had mistranslated some stuff LONG before there was ever a Bible. For instance, the Septuagint (albeist a "Bible" but in existence LONG before the Councils).



I wonder, though: if the writings ALREADY contained errors... was that not merely a further perpetuation of the problem? Why didn't the Pope just tell folks what John did? Why didn't Jerome?

"I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him." 1 John 2:26, 27

Did not Damasus AND/OR Jerome KNOW what John had written? How did the TWO of them miss THIS?? I mean, one was a Pope... and the other undertook to TRANSLATE the Bible... Only one way I know of that they could have missed it: neither had received that anointing themselves... and so were neither were IN Christ. The One they would have received it FROM.



Yeah, well, how's that working out? I mean, did NONE of them SEE where my Lord was recorded to have said:

You study/search the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." John 5:39, 40

How can you translate a Bible... and MISS this? How can you be a vicar of... no, not going there. Just wonderin' how either of these could miss that the MESSAGE isn't read the Bible MORE... but LESS... and come to Christ INSTEAD. Nevermind... I know how... and why. We have a perfect example right here.



Really. Do you REALLY think that is why they (1) kept control of the interpretation, and (2) encouraged folks to read (their interpretation)? To preserve HER unity, yes, sure. Absolutely. But to teach the truth? How could/can THEY teach it... BETTER than Christ? Are they not "seating themselves in the seat of Moses" by doing so... by not sending folks DIRECTLY to Christ... but calling for them to come to/through THEM?

Now I understand the WTBTS' very hypocritical statement ABOUT her:

"A bigoted group of men who SYSTEMICALLY ENDEAVOR TO THROTTLE ALL BIBLE TEACHING... UNLESS IT COMES THROUGH THEM." (Proclaimer's Book, page 69-70. Emphasis mine.) I mean, they do it, too, which makes THEM hypocrites... But what's sad is that some don't see that they BOTH are... for doing THIS... among other things. Too bad. TOO bad.



Well, YEAH. Why wouldn't he? They have their own Bible (just as the WTBTS). Do you not see how both have been used for the same end... to "make disciples" NOT of Christ... but of a false IMAGE of him that THEY have used their Bibles to contrive??



What about just loving Christ... so as to listen to and be led by HIM... into all truth? What of HIS words about studying the Bible, dear one? I mean, if one is going to READ it... shouldn't one at least TRY to grasp what it is saying... and whether such is true or not?


Yes. Okay, I get it. Search the scriptures. Okay. Sorry, dear one, but I've been led past that... and have many. Yes, we refer back to the Bible... for those who yet lack faith to HEAR Christ speak to them himself. But we don't study it ourselves. Rather, we simply look to the One some of it bears witness to. SO much easier... and lighter... and kindly a "yoke," you know? No meetings, no field service, no mass, no conventions, no choosing of Popes and GB members, and... and... and...

Just plain ol', good ol', holy spirit... and the Holy Spirit, who is the HOLY ONE of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). Praise JAH... he IS alive... and speaks... and is ENOUGH.

But I hear you, my brother. I guess if one still has their faith in the pedagogue... the "tutor" LEADING to Christ... they may not have yet arrived at their "destination." No worries: such ones should just KEEP asking, KEEP seeking, and KEEP knocking. Because they will get there. He, the Door and Way... WILL be opened to them, as well.

Peace to you, my dear, dear brother... and I am MORE than willing to leave off discussing the differences in faith some of us have in relation to worshiping God by means of a religion... rather than in SPIRIT... and TRUTH.

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

On another note (peace to you all!)... the "religion" one... I am a bit confused:

In one place, "we" are likened to a religion; yet, in another, it is stated that the WTBTS is NOT a religion. And if the definition posted is accurate... such that we ARE (we're not, but for the sake of discussion)... how is the WT a "cult" and NOT a religion?

We are not a religion, although I understand how some might want to put that label on us. Whatever. But... if it's a cult, is it ALSO a religion? If it's a religion, by definition, how can it be a cult?

Also, which religions are "religions"? It seems that Catholicism is considered a religion. As is, perhaps, Buddhism, Islam, and Judaism. Maybe Protestantism (although, I'm not sure given their separation from Catholicism)...

Is Mormonism/LDS a religion? Pentecostal? Seventh Day Adventists? COGIC? Rastafarian? Taoism? Shintoism?

I am really confused: how is it that our tiny little brotherhood IS a religion... and the WTBTS, which posts several million "brothers"... is NOT?

Ya'll folks are confusing me, truly.

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellama

LOL!

Pardon me, Shelby, but your ignorance is showing. Please note that I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. I am charitably assuming you wrote this drivel out of ignorance, rather than intentionally to obscure true fact. You say the Catholic Church has their own Bible? *smiles sweetly*

Which one would that be, then? New International Version? King James? Jerusalem? New Jerusalem? Vulgate?!.....so, so old! Philippines?........

All these versions and many more are currently used in local Catholic Churches and church groups to my own direct personal local knowledge.

So, Shelby, I am confused. Surely you couldn't DELIBERATELY be holding on to and repeating a deliberate lie? Could you? Even I have given you the correct factual information here on this forum on previous occasions, and with your extensive knowledge and understanding of old languages it seems difficult to believe that you haven't understood simple English. I mean...you couldn't deliberately be making a false statement to mislead others.... could you?

Just one more time so no-one can make this false statement again, the Catholic Church does NOT have its own translation of the Bible and forbid the use of other versions. It does not. That is not the case.

Now, if anyone else makes that assertion, or if you make it again, Shelby, here or on another forum, we will all know it is a deliberate lie, a falsehood, a whopper, a naughty porky.

As I said, the RCC definitely used to forbid it being owned in English, only a matter of some 60 years ago. I have personal knowledge of it happening to friends and family, and I don't tell lies, and neither does Shelby.


Loz x

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"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Loz, dear, a mistake is a mistake, not a lie. As I made quite clear above.

I can't speak for your individual friends and family 60 years ago. I can speak of general historical fact.
Individual priests may say a thing, and also individual parishioners may misunderstand something. I am NOT saying that either is the case, merely that individual cases to not disprove a general rule.

A prime and ancient rule of logic, going back to classical times, is that while you can always argue from the general to the particular, you can never argue from the particular to the general.

For example, just to be clear. We can say "All books have a cover and pages. This object has a cover and pages. This particular object is a book." We can never say " this particular object is a book. It has covers and pages. It is blue. Therefore all books are blue."

You just can't do it. It doesn't work.

So, truthful though you are and valid though your own experience is, it is only your own experience and although it provides an example it doesn't prove or disprove a general point.

Equally, while you can honestly say you don't tell lies, because you know it of yourself, you can't absolutely say that Shelby doesn't. You can say in your experience she doesn't. You can say you trust her. But you can't absolutely state that Shelby doesn't tell lies, because you don't absolutely know. Only Shelby knows that.

I very clearly didn't accuse anyone of lying up to now. (I did say people were prejudiced and that is hard fact and in evidence right across this forum and beyond.) I merely gave the facts and so no-one can now claim ignorance. Thereafter, if the same untrue fact were stated, then that would be a deliberate lie.

Do you see?

Loz, I am not "singling you out" as I was accused of on another occasion. It's just that certain points have not been answered and this is one of them.

There is a fundamental difference between the theological (not in the unique JW sense) term "mystery", much used by the Catholic Church and in other traditions, and "a mystery".

Mystery implies the deepest possible realm of truth about God. A mystery indicates a puzzle, that might well be solvable. I do see that the term is unfamiliar to ex-JW's, which I had not known before.

Of course Christ came to earth to show us God in human form, but of course God is far, far beyond human understanding.

What we do understand is the nature of the love that God has for His Creation, and for each of us individually. We cannot possibly understand the whole of God's nature, which is obvious when you come to think about it. No human ever could.

I tried my best to keep this thread about issues and to try to help people see both sides and then make the best judgment possible.
Not based on hearsay or propagandize, but facts.
I agree that we should be critical of any religious organization that prohibits its followers to own and read the bible for themselves BUT we have to seperate what IS from what we THINK and try out best to understand WHY.
Then we can still disagree of course, BUT we are disagreeing with what IS and not what we THINK is.
I have not succeeded in this.