xjwsforChrist

Lol, clever puppy!

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

I am not sure about reptiles and fish and insects and plants having a spirit.
Ecclesiastics is a very pessimistic book, a book written that sheds very little "hope" on anything, and from where the Saudecees got their "no Resurrection" view.
Some even wonder why it is in the bible since it doesn't seem to have any redemption motif at all or, as some have stated, any life affirming views at all (overly pessimistic), some state that it was kept as an example of "skeptic writing".

Anyways.
I can see mammals having a spirit, but I am not sure...

Disclaimer: when I mean spirit I mean that divine gift from God that makes Us in His image.

Honestly, I find things like parasitic wasps and praying mantids a bit to "evil" to have a spark of divine in them, that said, humans have done far MORE evil so...

I think that reptiles and insects are "instinctual" animals as opposed to humans that are "conscience oriented" ones and, IMO< that is because humans are in "God's Image".

PS: If humans are in "God's image," they wouldn't be doing "far more evil". . . .

We ARE made in God's image.
We know right and wrong BECAUSE of that.
That we DO evil make it far worse because we are very, VERY conscious that it is evil and that it is wrong.

Sorry. Nope. Don't agree with you at all. And that's my prerogative just as yours is yours. I'll leave you to yours and I'll keep mine to me. How you get that we ARE created in God's image though, I just don't get. I don't get it at all.

Hi Paul : )

Just have a couple of questions about what you wrote above, and wondering how you come to it?

If we (man, and in particular Israel) knew right and wrong from having been made in God's image... why the need for the law to teach what is right?



What about those who are (spiritually) blind? Those who Christ said, 'Father forgive them because they do not know what they do"... ?


Just because from what I have been given to understand, man has been given the means to BECOME sons of God, to be transformed into Christ's image, who IS the Image of God. Our Lord reminds me of this scripture:

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. (2Corinth 3:18)


Peace to you!!

tammy

None of the living HAVE a spirit, dear P (peace to you, dear one!): they all ARE spirit. Every living, breathing thing... IS a spirit. They just have different VESSELS (bodies) which HOLD the spirit... life... they ARE:

"... God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. There are also celestial (spirit) bodies and terrestrial (earthly/physical) bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another." 1 Corinthians 15:38-40



That's because it was written by Solomon once he began to lose HIS hope. Although the wisest man (at the time), Solomon did not use his wisdom in the MOST beneficial way... which was to have listened to JAH. So long as he listened to JAH, his wisdom abounded, to his great benefit. When he stopped listening, though, his wisdom became a burden. He stopped, when he ignored JAH's counsel to not take wives from among the nations, as they would mislead the children of Israel into serving other gods. Well, Solomon ended up with over 700 wives... 300 concubines... and many other women... all of whom were foreign. Prolly a new "wife" for almost every night. As a result, he turned away from serving JAH to serving foreign gods and, as a result, lost favor with JAH... and was told that the kingdom would be taken from him and given to his SERVANT (which turned out to be Jeroboam). After that, what hope did Solomon have? So, what you read from him from that point is couched in a lot of remorse and cynicism. 1 Kings 11:1-13; 1 Kings 12:1-20



It's value is in the wisdom... and truth... it shares, albeit sometimes gloomy. Wisdom IS sometimes gloomy. And truth isn't always a rose garden (although, many in the world try to make it out to be... and sometimes it can appear that way... "from a distance"). Up close, though, it can be a torture pole, sometimes. Which is why many spend SO much... in time AND money... to cover UP the truth. That, and what it exposes...



Au contrare, dear, dear brother. Adham was made in God's image, yes, but we... in Adham's image. He made Seth in HIS image... and we are the descendants of Seth:

"And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth." Genesis 5:1, 2

Well, some of us. Others... descendants of Cain. Now, if we had been the descendants of ABEL, then yes, one could say, truthfully, that we are ALMOST made in God's image. But we neither LOOK Him... nor ACT like Him. We look... and act... like Adham, whose image we bear:

"And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man." 1 Corinthians 15:49

[NOTE: Many BELIEVE us to be in God's image because of a mistransliteration of what Paul wrote at 1 Corinthians 11:7, which states:

"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man."

That isn't actually what the verse says... or means, though. First, it purports to show that a man covering HIS head is "unlawful." But was it? Well, Moses covered HIS head... and what did Moses do that Israel should NOT have done? Nothing. Hence, most of the priests and religious leaders covered their heads, too. For the wrong reasons, yes, but even so. What was Paul saying, though? The Greek word transliterated to mean "since he is" or "forasmuch as he is"... means nothing of the sort. The word, hyparchō, denotes someone coming to BE, or BEGINNING to be, or coming FORTH, or to be READY (to be)... or to BE. NOT... is.

So that the ACCURATE rendering of Paul's words would be:

"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since/forasmuch as he is COMING to be... BEGINNING to be... coming forth or is ready (to be)... the image and glory of God..."

And Paul wasn't talking about ALL men. When he says "a man" he means those men who make up the Body of Christ.



But that's just it, dear one: WE (mankind) DON'T know right from wrong. SOME (a few) of us do, but most do NOT. And I am not saying that it is "christians" OR the Body of Christ that do... while all others do not. Indeed, Israel (who we, the Body ARE) did not... which is why they had to have the Law WRITTEN... on stone tablets. They DIDN'T know, BECAUSE they weren't in God's image. Had they been, they wouldn't have NEEDED the Law to be written on stone... as it would have been written ON THEIR HEARTS.

And THAT is why Paul SAID... of the Body... that we will BEAR the image of the heavenly One. Because JAH will PUT His law into our minds and WRITE it, HIMSELF... on our hearts. THEN... we will be "like" Him, in His image... by manifesting that Law. Which we will do FULLY, when we are rejoined with Christ.



Then I am confused as to whom you mean when you say "we." Because science/psychology/crime statistics show that there are some people (and war/terrorism shows there are many)... who have absolutely NO consciousness of evil at all. So maybe both dear Armand and I are mistaking who it is you mean when you say "we" are made in God's image?

I hope this helps!

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

YES!!!

I would like to share also,

Rom 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who [fn] have been called according to his purpose.

Rom 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

Rom 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.


Thanks for sharing
Justmom

Genesis 1 states that MANKIND was mad in God's Image, ( OUR Image as a matter of fact).
The word Adham means not just the MAN Adham but also man/mankind.

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [fn]sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

BUT, even is we assume that was meant ONLY for Adham and Eve, which would suck since that would make them LESS than Us considering THEY openly rebelled against God and we simply "inherited" their sin.
BUT, lets assume that we are not in His image but simply in the image of Seth.
We DO know right from wrong ( outside of people born with deviant behaviour like sociopaths/psychopaths).
We know it so well that even the worse of us says, " hey, not fair" when they are wronged.
This is one of the reasons WE believe in a moral absolute and science tries to "explain" it via evolutionary psychology.
Even the most extremist of terrorist believes in right and wrong, no matter how twisted that view may seem to Us.

But being in God's image goes beyond that too, it is the DESIRE to KNOW God, that is also part of it.
Yes, some people act as if they have NO desire but, at least in my experience, that is more the case of "not wanting to know the version of God they have grown to hate".

Of course you all are free to disagree with my view.
Maybe its just me and that I DO see that "spark" of God in all of us.
Of course I have been wrong before, so...

Well, know that is a can of worms eh?
PREDESTINED...FOREKNEW....

Calvin would be proud

To add to what Paul said, after the forbidden fruit was eaten:

And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” - Gen 3:22

Good morning, dear P, and peace to you! The word "Adham" means "earthling man" (as opposed to spirit man which, for instance, JAH and Christ are). This can MEAN "mankind" as in the "kind" that is earthling man, yes, but it does not mean "mankind" as in ALL of US.



This right here should give you a clue as to who was meant: them... is Adham and Eve. The male and female that JAH created. They were told to be fruitful and multiply... which WOULD have resulted in MORE being in God's image; however, they did not do that (procreate) until AFTER their sin... and receipt of the "long garment of skin"... the vessel with sin and death IN it (their initial vessels had NEITHER in them)... which vessel (image) WE have inherited.



Less than... us, yes... if by "us" you mean members of the Body of Christ. Absolutely. Because Christ raises us UP, above them... by COVERING our sin with HIS blood. If you are speaking of mankind in general, the situation is that they WERE more than us, initially, and MOST follow their path... rebellion and disobedience. However, some, like Cain... do WORSE. Adham rebelled and disobeyed, yes, to the detriment of ALL of mankind who came after him. Because of HIM, all die. But SOME of "us" not only rebel/disobey as THEY did... but literally murder, commit adultery, bear false witness against their brother, etc. And all who do so are not psychological deviants. Many, if not most, are just selfish, greedy, angry, lacking natural affection, haughty, etc. As JAH said, the defect is THEIR OWN.



Again, you forget Israel. IF they KNEW right from wrong they would NOT have needed to have the Law written. They SHOULD have known, yes. Absolutely. But even WITH the Law, as dear tec (peace to you!) pointed out, Christ (and Stephen... and, hopefully, WE, the Body of Christ) ask(ed) JAH to forgive them... because they do NOT know what they do.

Persecuting Christ (directly or by means of doing so to his Body) isn't the result of deviation. Nor are those things that violate the Old Law (and the NEW Law of love), such as coveting, which results in stealing one's neighbor's property. Or, again, adultery. What about murder due to jealousy (of a spouse, brother, friend, neighbor)? Worshipping other gods? Taking up JAH's name in a worthless way? And so on.



(Smile) Yes. We know right from wrong when WE are wronged. But we don't always know it when WE wrong someone else. Hence, as Christ said, "If your brother has something against YOU... go make peace with your brother... THEN go present your gift at the altar." Do you ALWAYS know when you have wronged your brother? Of course not. If so, most of us would probably never WRONG our brother. We know right... when we want right to be shown/given to US... and we know wrong... when it has been committed AGAINST us. But we don't know it when WE owe it to another. Hence... the Laws, both the Old AND the New.



I would have to disagree, dear one. Because even the MOST extreme terrorist would KNOW... that TWO wrongs DON'T make a right. And so while s/he may know that wrong is being done AGAINST her/him/their people... that would KNOW that doing wrong BACK... is... wrong. Most, however, do NOT know this but believe their vengeance is RIGHT. Even CALLED for. Which, if one was looking at Christ, one would KNOW... is NOT right... but... wrong.

What you, and others who believe as you do above are DOING... is EXCUSING wrong. And you are blaming GOD... for MAN's choices to DO wrong ("We were MADE this way and so we can't HELP it!"). One really should take care with such thinking because man's choices are NOT God's fault... or doing. Are SOME biologically deviant? Of course, yes. But most deviate out of choice.



But all don't HAVE that desire, dear one. Surely, you know this. Indeed, there are people who would take serious issue with you for even making such a statement. They not only do not BELIEVE in God, but have STATED that they have NO DESIRE to know Him.



Then we are right back to "they don't KNOW what they do." Meaning, per YOU, they DO want to know God... but just don't KNOW they really want to know Him because they don't know the Him YOU do. Hence, they DON'T know right from wrong. Right?



Thank, dear one. You know I would NOT... if I didn't have to (because it's an error). Your view is LOVELY, yes, but it isn't accurate, sorry. Does that mean you don't have JAH's spirit? No. Think Apollo, a man full of spirit, but not having an ACCURATE knowledge about the Way of God. Priscilla and Aquila shared some things with him, though, to HELP him have that knowledge. You are ALWAYS receptive to what is shared with you, so I have no reason to be concerned. You WILL get these things, dear P... as you come to know Christ... who will help you know God. But you have some strongly entrenched things, yet, which you are dealing with, yes. They are hard to move past, I know. But you ARE seeking, asking, and knocking so he, Christ, the Door... WILL be opened to you. Just keep on keeping on, my brother!



And that is a WONDERFUL trait... to see "God" in everyone. Just don't forget: Satan keeps transforming HIMSELF into an "angel of light." Since Christ IS the light, yes, there are going to be some who APPEAR to have God in them... but really don't. Am I HAPPY about that? Gloating? Rejoicing... as some (JWs) do over that truth? Absolutely NOT. Like JAH, I do not wish ANY to die but ALL to turn around and return to Him. But I know that that is not going to happen. It makes me VERY sad... and is one of the reasons I have been sharing what I have AS I have for as LONG as I have: to maybe save MY household, yes... but also to maybe help YOU save YOURS.



LOLOLOLOL! But you ARE "right-hearted", my dear, dear brother. I can think of few others... out of all that I have had the privilege of sharing with over the years that I would say that about. Many more cannot handle having their paradigms disagreed with, even the light stuff, let alone the deep, strongly entrenched things. But your LOVE shines through, always, as does your desire to know God... which is only done by knowing the TRUTH, His Son... and the truth that one leads us into. Your journey is well on its way, dear brother. Just keep on keeping on!

I hope these things help and, as always, peace to you... and to your dear household!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

Shellama

Yes, THE man, dear LQ (good moring and peace to you!). Not "mankind"... because not ALL of us HAVE become like God: knowing good (life) AND bad (death). And not all of us have eaten from the Tree of LIFE... which Adham and Eve WERE eating of... and were cut OFF from.

I hope this helps!

Again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

I know you mean well Shel, but...


You are beginning to sound like my JW family.

Israel KNEW right form wrong, they most certainly did not agree that being slaves was right.
The Law POINTED the way to SIN, without the Law they would not have know sin in a concrete way, which is sad because even Paul said that the gentiles, who did NOT have the Law, had the law in their hearts.
Sad that Israel needed it to be put "in stone".

.

IMO, humans ARE in the image of God and like His angels, are free to BE in that image or to DENY that image.
It is this conscious understanding of right and wrong and choice that makes us in His Image ( at this point), so different from animals that are instinctive and truly don't know any better.

I believe that is because of His spirit, His grace that even in those that don't understand it yet, still yearn for it.
We yearn for love, not just lust or companionship but LOVE.
We are compassionate.
We are self-sacrificing.
And while some animals may exhibit the traits of "self-sacrfice" and even compassion to their own, to them it is instinctive and to US it is a choice.
Even to our enemies.
We are unique among all of God's creatures in that regard and that is because, in Us, there is that part that is in His Image.

Lol.. that is a whole other conversation ; ) Though regardless of where Calvin personally took that issue and turned it into (or others after him turned it into) calvinism, those verses are still present.

But the emphasis in those verses on this issue was on being transformed INTO His (Christ's) image... so that we are not born in the image of Christ (or God since Christ is the image of God), but are instead being transformed into that image.


Peace,
tammy