xjwsforChrist

To the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with... may you have peace!

On occasion we get into discussions about the blood speaking. That sometimes leads to comments (usually from me, sorry), about the bones: spirit (life) is in the blood... marrow manufactures blood... and marrow is in the bones. There are several scriptures/verses that give clues, if not outright comment, to this. A recent discussion about the blood speaking lead to some questions. It also led to some thinking that perhaps some of us here are the only ones who believes the blood speaks. That is not the case, though. I think I shared with you all that some used to think (and perhaps some still do, based on a recent article about the unrest in Syria) that when one drank the blood/ate the heart of another human or some beast, they were taking the spirit of that person/beast into them, along with their strengths, prowess, skill, wisdom, etc. Their desirable attributes.

Today I was reminded by my Lord that not only do others believe the blood speaks... but the bones, as well. Hence, for millenia various native/tribal peoples around the earth... as well as ancient to modern diviners... believe bones speak. Hence... the "casting" and "reading"... of bones.

Of course, most believe this to be superstitious religious folklore and they are right, for the most part. Per my Lord, bone reading is the result of millenia of misunderstanding: over millenia people have looked to the BONES to speak... because they don't understand that it is not the bones themselves but what they MAKE... blood... that speaks. Due to their close connection, however, the TRUTH (that blood alone speaks) got lost and replaced by the error (that the bones that MAKE blood speak).

Now, even dry bones can contain enough blood/DNA to speak, yes... but apparently NOT when they've been cremated. Here is some interesting information from Genebase.com:



http://www.genebase.com/support/index.p ... icleid=288

Interesting. Especially when we have the account of Nebuchadnezzar and his attempts to burn Daniel, Hananiah, Azaraiah, and Mishael. Per the account, he ordered the fire to be made SO hot, the men outside the furnace were annihilated. So, he was trying to COMPLETELY burn them... even their bones... leaving nothing but ashes. Now, wonder why he wanted to do THAT? As I shared with you before, he ordered it that hot because he was trying to destroy their spirits... which spirit is in the blood and bones.

What about blood transfusions? When one takes another's blood into their body does the donor's DNA replace the recipient's (which may be the fear underlying the WTBTS' prohibition against taking blood)? The answer is usually no, but not necessarily. This is because people are usually only given (packed) RED blood cells, which don't contain DNA or nuclei. What if they're given WHOLE blood, though? DNA is present in white blood cells (leukocytes) "at a rate of about a billion cells per pint." Even blood components that have been filtered to remove donor white cells "can have millions of leukocytes per unit." And donor DNA can stay in a recipients blood for up to 1.5 years.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ansfustion

What of bone MARROW transplants? Since the reason FOR a bone marrow transplant is the recipients marrow is failing, any replacement marrow is more than likely to take over, at least in some tissue:



http://www.askabiologist.org.uk/answers ... hp?id=6352

[NOTE: There are several other websites where information can be found about the effect of blood transfusions/bone marrow transplants on a recipient's DNA.]

Don't get me wrong, though - my point, here, is NOT to speak against blood transfusions OR bone marrow transplants. Not at ALL. Because at least in each case... there IS DNA... regardless of whose: the recipient's and/or the donor's. But DNA all the same.

However, that doesn't seem to be the case with cremation. There... NO DNA remains. None. Zippo. Zilch. Not even in bone fragments... or teeth. And so, as dear tec (peace, luv!), once posted... perhaps the only thing "left" of such person is what can be found in their baby teeth. If such still exist.

If you are curious, then, as to "what" will be used to resurrect (in the flesh, and so in the "second" resurrection) those who have died... this information might be of some assistance. Might not.

But just some truths to share with you all, that's all. No message as to what one "should" or "should not" do. Just some information, in case anyone was curious. Because information is good. Truth(FUL information)... is better.

Again, peace to you ALL!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Interesting. Especially when we have the account of Nebuchadnezzar and his attempts to burn Daniel, Hananiah, Azaraiah, and Mishael. Per the account, he ordered the fire to be made SO hot, the men outside the furnace were annihilated. So, he was trying to COMPLETELY burn them... even their bones... leaving nothing but ashes. Now, wonder why he wanted to do THAT? As I shared with you before, he ordered it that hot because he was trying to destroy their spirits... which spirit is in the blood and bones.

Hitler must have had the same thinking, yes?

Loz x

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"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

If the spirit returns to God, does it matter what happens to the body? any part of it?
I mean, IF when the body is destroyed the spirit is still there then I can kind of see the issue, BUT if a person dies and the spirit returns to God, then what is lef tis "spiritless" matter, no?

Funny you say that Paul, I read what Shelby said, then went and had a shower. While I was washing my hair I was still thinking about it and the same thing came to me, why if the spirit which i assume is the personality leaves the body would it matter that the physical body is gone. Spirits do not need or have blood, we will need a new body and new blood if we are resurrected into human form.

Yes Loz.....

As well as the WTBS.

None of my family that were EVER JWs were cremated. Always casket funerals even if they were not " open casket." I remember them asking me why one time. It was obvious to them because that's all we encouraged.

The witnesses are a group of people that for the most part want the quickest, cheapest, easy way out as they feel a guaranteed new body.

BUT THE REAL REASON?
I can count on one hand how many casket funerals I've heard of as a JW.

Cremation, destroy EVERYTHING!!???

Of course an evil entity that would want both body and spirit ( life/DNA) destroyed.

Just saw the connection.

Justmom.

We've been here

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=226

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To fear me is to love me....

Ahhhh yes we forget so easy, it has been discussed in depth. In any case I opt to be buried not cremated just in case lol

Personally I doubt that the Watchtower leans towards cremation because they believe it destroys the spirit/Spirit.

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To fear me is to love me....

Not sure if other thread addresses this but I'm just leaving doctor, dear Paul and Zoe (peace to you both!). The reason it MIGHT be an issue is for those (particularly Israel) is resurrection. Because it is the BODY/vessel ("soul") that is resurrected. For the spirit/life to be put back INTO.

Adham's soul/body was not LIVING until JAH put HIS spirit into it. THEN Adham BECAME a living soul. Until then, he was a dead soul. A body WITHOUT life IN it.

It is the body that is resurrected - the bones having spirit breathed into them again. This is what Ezekiel saw. In the FIRST resurrection those who belong to Christ but have died are immmediately raised to spirit bodies at the same time that those who belong to him but have NOT died are CHANGED to spirit bodies. In the SECOND resurrection, however, which the ONLY resurrection before Christ offered the covenant for the FIRST, folks are raised in their PHYSICAL bodies to stand before the Judgment. From there they either receive LIFE (and so are also given "white robes" - a spirit body)... OR they receive judgment... for which their bodies AND spirits are destroyed in the Lake of Fire (Gehenna). That's why it's called the "SECOND death" - they are raised from their first death and judged worthy of dying AGAIN, only this time as to body AND spirit. And since the spirit doesn't die but must be destroyed, the body is ALSO DESTROYED this time. It does not just die... with the spirit continuing but BOTH are done away with.

If ALL DNA is DESTROYED though, no vessel can BE resurrected. Whether to life OR judgment. There is nothing to make a vessel FROM. And my understanding is no, a brand NEW vessel cannot be created. Why? Because it would be another Adham... BEFORE he sinned... and that ain't gonna happen. There is one Christ... through Whom ALL things were created... and one Adham... through whom the sons of MAN came. To make a NEW Adham... or new Adhams... would take us BACK... and back to the same potential for disobedience... but on a much larger scale.

Our bodies are the product of Adham's error and thus so is its DNA.

And yes, dear Zoe, that is EXACTLY why Hitler tried to annihilate the Jews in the WAY he did with some. As I think I shared, though, he was merely a willing tool... doing another's work ("What you have to do get done more quickly"). And since HE was part Jewish, even worse.

Again, I did not post this to say what anyone should or should not do. I did because it answered for ME and perhaps some others why cremation might NOT be a good idea. Even if one doesn't believe in God/Christ... even science, which MIGHT one day figure out how to restore life... even to those who have been dead for millennia... would need some DNA to work with. And cremation leaves none.

I hope this helps!

Peace to you ALL!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama, who knows that while Christ MAY tell his servants some things that don't seem fully conceivable AT THE TIME, he always folllows through... so as to FINISH our training, to the END. And so, for those who might ask the next logical question (but isn't DNA found in more than just blood??), I will share what I received as to that when I'm back at home. Peace!

My uber JW Mom asked to be cremated and had my Dad cremated too, believe me if the WT was against cremation she would have known it.

No they lean toward it due to the (often extortionary) expense of burial, dear Pup (peace to you!). Why should their members pay all that money... which COULD be contributed toward furthering the construction of that golden calf?

No, spirits aren't their concern; indeed, THEY believe that the body AND spirit dies when one dies. Money is THEIR objective.

Peace!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

I just wonder...

My father was cremated. If that means there is nothing left with DNA in it, what about his descendants? He had both sons and daughters; maybe he could be rebuilt from the genetic material they inherited.

Not into life science...

AB

Not sure "how" that could occur, dear Anne (peace to you!). Maybe like taking Eve from Adham's rib? Take your dear dad from one of you all's? I dunno. Not sure but it sounds to me like that would be you all's father coming out of YOU (one or all)... rather than you (all) having come out of him. Would he still be your "father"?

Interesting. You could ask...

Peace, luv!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Ill set your mind at ease

Assuming that AGuest is correct and that it's the DNA.... Your father has had his DNA everywhere

In every nosebleed, every torn hair root, somewhere there will always be his DNA

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To fear me is to love me....

SOOoo... in that light (no pun intended)... everywhere dear Anne's dad has been, a potential "dad" can be... what, recreated, dear Pup (peace to you, both!)? Okay.

Although... sounds more like cloning than resurrecting to ME, but, hey...

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellama