xjwsforChrist

Ok, lets:



Matthew 25 about the judgment:
The Judgment

31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [e]take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Matthew 3:
11 “As for me, I baptize you [g]with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you [h]with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire

Mark:
42 “Whoever causes one of these [z]little ones who believe to stumble, it [aa]would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he [ab]had been cast into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into [ac]hell, into the unquenchable fire, 44 [[ad]where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.] 45 If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into [ae]hell, 46 [[af]where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.] 47 If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into [ag]hell, 48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke:
The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20 And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 And [r]besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do

ANd so forth...

Before I should share what I have come to know about this matter, dear P (peace to you, dear brother!), I think I should ask: did you cover the following?



Not saying you didn't. Just asking.

Peace... and my apologies to you all for being absent today - more errands (which I was unable to complete yesterday) which ran much longer than I anticipated)!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Yep, I have 2 greek interlinears, both with the "alternative" written texts.

Sorry, hit submit too soon. Back in a few!

So, okay, dear P (peace to you!), let's start with this account. You quote Matthew 25:46 as "These will go away into eternal punishment." But is that what the verse actually says?

There are only TWO instances where the Greek word kolasis is used in the Bible: here and 1John 4:18. The latter states:

"There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."

This suggests that punishment is what those who DON'T have perfect love fear, yes? Makes sense. But would a MERCIFUL God punish someone... eternally? Even someone that cannot be forgiven (say, for blasphemy against His spirit)? In the Hebrew, "hell" is "sheol" (shĕ'owl)... the world of the dead. Job wanted to be hidden there for a set time, until his tribulations had ended, after which JAH would remember him. He meant to die and go there... for a time set by JAH, after which That One would remember him and resurrect him back:

"Oh that you would hide me in Sheol, that you would conceal me until your wrath be past, that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me!" John 14:13

Christ, God's Holy One, also went there, per Psalm 16:7, and preached to the spirits there while there, per 1Peter 3:19:

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." KJV

"For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption." NKJV

"because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay." NIV

Acts 2:27, 31

It corresponds to Hades in Greek. But even more noteworthy, Hell (Hades) "does" things in the Revelation:

1. "It" follows "Death" during the ride of the four horsemen - Revelation 6:8
2. "It" deliversd up the dead in it - Revelation 20:13
3. "It" is cast into the "lake of fire" - Revelation 20:13

This last thing is where folks usually get mixed up: some think "Hell" IS the Lake of Fire. It isn't. It is not merely the "common grave" as the WTBTS, either, though. Hell is the "world" to which the spirits of the dead go to. Prior to Christ (and thus, prior to the offer of kingdom rulership with him), Israel only had the world of the dead... and resurrection FROM that place... to look forward to (John 11:24). Once Christ came... and offered a covenant for a KINGDOM, though... a new "place" was opened up for those exercising faith in him: "under the altar." Revelation 6:9, 10

In the GENERAL (second) resurrection, however, Hell... along with the sea and Death... gives UP those in it. It is emptied out so that those who were IN it... can stand before the Judgment. Revelation 20:11-13 Along with those who ARE resurrected out (of the sea, Hell, and death)... death AND hell... are hurled into the "lake of fire/fiery lake." THIS is the "inferno" that SOME confuse with "hell"... but is actually "Geenna" or "Gehenna". The CONFUSION comes from a misrepresentation in the translation of Matthew 10:28. THAT verse states (from the NIV, for your convenience):



But guess what? The GREEK work for "hell" HERE... is NOT Strong's G86 (Hades), as it is elsewhere... but Strong's G1067: "geena". The transliterated "definition" of "geena" is:



http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 1067&t=KJV

But is eternal punishment what CHRIST said occurred in "Geena"? No, he said "DESTROY both soul and body in 'Geena'." Yes? According to the GREEK.

Do we have other corroboration that one is DESTROYED in Geena (the fiery lake), versus eternally punished? We DO!

"... death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death."

So HADES (Hell) was thrown INTO the fiery lake. Hell... was thrown into... Hell?? Of course not. Even so, what IS the lake of fire"? As it states, it is the SECOND... DEATH. NOT punishment after resurrection from the FIRST death... but the result of judgment and condemnation... and so the place where Christ said God destroys the body... AND the spirit (okay, soul, but that's not really accurate - the body IS the soul... and then there is the spirit):

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Where they are destoyed. Not punished eternally.

Even WE only hand out life sentences, dear one. So that when someone dies, they've served their time. The same is true of JAH - He does not punish a person past their lifetime. True, some will be RESURRECTED and brought back to life... to stand trial... and perhaps be judged and condemned... but such ones are only handed a death-sentence, not an eternal punishment. It's over, quick and once and for all. Just as it is with humans.

If WE, then, are merciful enough to either give OUR offenders either a life sentence, from which they are never freed and so stay UNTIL THEY DIE... but their bodies are not perpetually tortured afterward... OR we quickly END their lives... as humanely as possible (for the times)... how can we accuse the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, of doing WORSE?

We have serial killers, child molesters, rapists, terrorists... and yet, the most WE hand out is death. Or perhaps life imprisonment. But it's not imprisonment where they are tortured day in and day out. Why? Because THAT... would not be MERCIFUL.

Are we more merciful that the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, Himself, dear one?

Folks can't go around decrying the WTBTS' ugly tenet of pushing death and destruction at "Armageddon," and then accuse the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... of preparing to torture people... with fire... eternally. As Davig said, it is better to fall into JAH's hands... than into the hands of earthling man. Because JAH is MORE merciful than man.

Look to Christ, dear one. Can you TRULY see HIM torturing someone perpetually and eternally? Truly?

Yes, the Adversary's time in the fiery lake will SEEM like forever. That is because of his energy - it MUST be destroyed slowly... and carefully. Else, it could destabilize the entire creation. Yes, it's THAT must energy that must be contained. And so his destruction takes what SEEMS like forever... but it WILL end. Once he is completely... and utterly... destroyed... which occurs in the "fire" from which was created... forged.

I will address the other verses over the next few days (still hoping someone else will look up the Greek/listen to the Master, as well, so that I am not the only one engaging here...), but I hope this helps in the meantime.

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

RE: Matthew,

It was written that the punishment would be eternal:
aionios is greek for:
without beginning or end.
Punishment - kolasis can mean punishment or correction or penalty.

The direct reading of Matthew 25:46 is that the unrighteous will go to a place of eternal/everlasting punishment/correction.

Hell is the term used to describe any area of the "afterlife" other than Heaven.
Whether the original term was hades, ghenna or sheol was irrelevant and I think that was where the mistake was done.
I think that may have been where the notion of "purgatory" came from,a place "not in heaven" where those that are not quite ready for their spirit to go to heaven will go.
Based on the notions of Hades and Sheol.
EX:

Paul, do you actually believe in hell... this eternal burning place of punishment?

Or are you just trying to show why some others do? I'll go through those verses too, but I just wondered about that. I never thought you believed in the hell of mainstream christianity. (LOL... um... that didn't come out exactly as I meant it)

Peace,
tammy

People believe in hell whether that be Tartarus, Gehenna, Hades, etc

People believe that their loved ones are in heaven.

People also believe that they are correct in their beliefs.

And they would be correct

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

*pokes your eye*

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Silly... I'm wearing my geek glasses...


Peace,
tammy

*flips your glasses up, pokes your eye, flips them back down*

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Well we do have a Hellpuppy here, he should know what Hell is lol.

I believe in a place that all those that willingly choose to reject Christ, will go.
I don't believe it is LITERAL fire and I don't think that writers believed it that way also.
I call that place "hell" for lack of a better name.
Do I believe those people are being punished?
Yes, but not by Christ but by THEIR choice to reject Christ.
What a horrible punishment it is to deny love, to have love offered to you and reject it.
What can we call a "life" like that but a life of punishment?

I had no idea you believed in hell like that Paul. I am sorry. I have some things to get done, but I will come back to you on this one.

Shelby has stated truth above though. The words do not mean what they have traditionally come to mean. (you will recall what Christ said about putting tradition before God ; ) )

Do you not consider it curious that 'hell' is thrown into the lake of fire? Two different things. Lake of fire already being explained as the second death.


Peace
tammy