xjwsforChrist

AGUEST SAID



YES!! I knew you knew, dear one (peace to you!), but thought perhaps it should be shared with those here who might not know and didn't want to take the privilege from you. Thank YOU for sharing!

Peace... and give dear J a hug!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

MEDEWTYSENU SAID

The Word of God.

I recently had this same discussion with a person in the mission and tried to explain how the Bible (while containing words) is not THE Word of God. It was written by men and subject to errors. I even pointed to John 5:39 and Jeremiah 8:8 to show that a written teaching can be corrupted by those with evil intention. John 1:1 tells us that Jesus (Yaheshua) is THE Word of God who dwelt with Yahveh from the beginning and who was made flesh. Lastly I asked this fellow from what book did the Apostles teach since many were "unlettered and ordinary" and the New Testament hadn't yet been compiled. The Gospels themselves weren't written until some 40 years after Jesus' death, so what source did they teach from in the mean time?

This discussion illustrates a key problem with Christianity. It's reliance upon the written word (subject to corruption) and non-reliance upon the Holy Spirit to teach them properly. Over and over again I find myself trying to get people to THINK about what Jesus said, rather than worrying about the proper translation of a word or which translation is best. The plethora of different denominations in Christianity illustrate this problem better than I ever could. By their mere existence it seems evident that many do not rely upon the Holy Spirit at all, but rather upon the written word that has been in the past corrupted. Considering we only possess copies of copies of copies and many of them are fragmentary at best, then how can they be reliable? The answer is obvious, but to voice that answer gets angry responses from fellow Christians and a charge of my "lack of faith" which is downright funny when you consider that my faith is built upon my faith in the Holy Spirit's teachings as revealed by Yaheshua and not upon the words of some human or a corrupted text. Let me put it another way. I'm being charged with having a lack of faith in Jesus because I don't trust the Bible when I'm hearing the voice of Jesus himself. They don't trust that what they hear from the Holy Spirit is accurate because some of it seems to contradict the Bible.
It just floors me sometimes how people can think this way

So my biggest issue right now is being able to teach others vital truths when they won't listen to me IF it's not spelled out for them in the Bible. How do you get someone to rely on the Spirit and not the written text?


Peace be with you,
your servant and fellow slave of Christ
Morgan
_________________
"Those that matter don't mind and those that mind don't matter"--Dr. Seuss

PSACRAMENTO SAID

One of the reasons that Christianity, as well as any religion with "sacred texts", rely on them is because it give them something tangible to "fall back on".
Without the bible we would NOT know what Christ said, we would not know what his apostles thought and felt.
The bible shows is the good, the bad, the ugly of God's chosen people and of those that His Beloved Son choose to be closest to.
It is an ugly and beautiful proclamation of God's love and man's sin.
So, it is very, very valuable and important.
That said, it must NOT take the place of Our Lord, EVER.
There is a reason that the JW's "downgraded" the HS to nothing but an "electrical force", a reason that the HS "talking" to beleivers is downplayes, questioned and even written off as "mental issues" and that is because it SCARES those in power.
Why?
Because when the HS is in "control" they are NOT !

The issue is, however, how does one judge if another has the HS or not?
With the bible we have a "blueprint" to go on to confirm if what a person is saying/doing is correct, if we were to "only re3ly" on the HS then, according to "them", anyone could do what they want because the "HS told them to".

AGUEST SAID



This is the THING, dear, dear MS (the greatest of love and peace to you!): YOU... DON'T. CHRIST chooses who to give his spirit to... NOT us. HE chooses who is "deserving"... NOT us. We are only instruments... "rocks" crying out... heralding... that he, the Way... is OPEN... and that those who are thirsting and wishing must go to HIM... for "water."

We must pay heed to JAH's words to Samuel... that is not not US who is being rejected! We can get confused with this by the false teachings and unloving practice we learned from the WTBTS... that if one didn't listen to THEM and THEIR message... they were rejecting God... and so rejecting THEM... and so we must take it personally.

We're not supposed to take it personally, though, but hold onto HOPE for such ones... and pray that it is his will that they DO get it... to JAH's glory, not our own.

Bottom line: all we can do is put the information out there. Plant. Maybe water. But we can't/don't make it grow, luv.

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!
_________________
Paz a todos!

Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA

PSACRAMENTO SAID

One of the hardest things to accept is that not everyone is willing to HEAR Our Lord.
Far easier to hear Man, that "yells and boasts" than the soft gentle loving voice of Our Lord.

AGUEST SAID

One of the hardest things to accept is that not everyone is willing to HEAR Our Lord.

I often wonder why that is, dear P (peace to you, dear one!). Even when I was in the WTBTS I wondered why it was hard for certain JWs to accept. Given what our Lord is recorded to have said about it on several occasions and in many different ways. Given the history of Israel... and the history of man.

I am so sorry but I just don't get why some take it so... personally (that whole "Listen to MY message... or you're gonna die!" thing). Just how do we know that, given JAH's mercy? And what if NO ONE listened to the message? Would one stop giving it in such instance?

Maybe... it's not about whether others listen or not. Maybe it's about whether WE listen:

"Let the one who hears say, “Come.”

Perhaps it's about not worrying what the next person will do/is doing... but what WE will do/are doing. Sure, it makes it easier if others hear us, "get" it, too, because that serves as a validation. But if one is saying "Come!"... because they think they are/want/need to be right... rather than because they hear Christ, love him, and just want to do what he tells them to... "whether they hear or refrain"... one may be setting oneself up for great disappointment. Because most WON'T hear... or even WANT to.

More often than not, people ascribe to the [very] misleading mantra, "Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear." While that applies to things of this world (and specifically gossip/perceptions)... it has a different connotation with regard to the spirit realm.

Dear ones, don't worry about or take it personally when someone can't/won't/doesn't receive your message. YOU do what YOU have to do... and "just so." Just remember to pray for them, too.

Peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

SA

PSACRAMENTO SAID





There is the "people will think I am crazy if I tell them that I heard Christ's voice" issue.

There is the built in inferiority complex we have that when someone says "why would God choose you to talk to?", we question ourselves.

There is the "if God really speaks to you, why is your message different form those that God speaks to also?"

There is the Prove top me that Gods speaks to you.

I cna go one of course but in short, we have so much self-doubt that it is hard to believe that God DOES speak to us.

The answer?
Personally, I love this way it was put:

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

I would just change to " Was deaf but now I hear"

AGUEST SAID




Yes, dear P (again, peace to you!). I find comfort in knowing that I was/probably would have been one of those persons ("Why me?", "Why you?" "How do I know you're not lying?" "Prove it!")... and so I can't take issue with them for their skepticism.

Unless they claim to be "anointed" or "belong" to Christ, etc.. Because of what I NOW know: I know what they would need to know, and be able to explain, at least minimally, for that to be true (versus just the product of what such one THINKS they know based on what others who don't know either have told them).

Just as I don't need others to corroborate what I may have seen with my own eyes, I don't need others to corroborate what I hear. Again, no one has to believe me/take my word for anything that I say/state/share. Because the TRUTH is that it isn't about ME. If we can accept, then, that we really ARE just messengers... good for nothing servants... who've done what we ought to have done... and so not necessarily deserving of a "reward", but promised one anyway due to MERCY... we learn not to take rejection personally.

Like a maid in the house of a great man, whose oldest son may have asked you to tell other servants in the house a certain thing. All you can do is tell them - you can't make them listen. There is some satisfaction, though, in knowing that the Son (and at some point, the Householder) told them himself, too (and will tell them again)... and that if they didn't/don't listen to THEM... why in the WORLD would they listen to YOU... that's on them and not your problem.

They may not hear them now... but they will. One day.

In the meantime, I just go back to scrubbing floors and cleaning toilets in between messages. Like any good servant would do - LOLOL!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

bump also...

Some wonderful posts on this thread...lovely to be reminded of them.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

True. Just a point worth bearing in mind, thanks to Ding, who doesn't seem to have been around for a long time. I wonder why?

One of the things I do when it "comes" to me that a particular scripture may not mean what I though it means is that I ask Christ for Guidance.
Sometimes I hear Him nice and clear BUT I have noticed that at times I get "led" to other things, like the opinions and views of others.
For the longest time I have issues with the Trinity doctrine, namely because I didn't really get it.
Then, IMO, Our Lord led me to an article that basically summerized it this way:

A Trinue God is a being that is "other-centered" in His love.
The father loves the son, the son loves the father, both are the HS and the HS is love.
If God is NOT other-centered in His love then He is self-centered and thus inferior and thus NOT God.
If God was not always Father/son/hs then at one point God was NOT complete and thus, not God.
If at one point there was no son in union with the Father then the Father was missing something and so begot the son and if that was the case, He was not God.

God is the ultimate and absolute expression/existence of Love and for that to be, it must be other-centered love because if it is not other-centered it is self-centered, which makes God self-centered and thus inferior to an other-centered being and thus, not God.

I think this thread sums it all up, including answering Ding's point there, directly after it was made. I started to respond, decided to go back and check for how it was answered before, and saw that the answer given then is the very answer that I was about to write all over again.

So... nothing to add to it.


Peace to you,
tammy

In the spirit of LOVE, a nice PM to dear Ding (peace to you!) asking after his/her well-being... might get you an answer, dear Char. You know, rather than an "innocent" inquiry here...

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama, who's growing a bit tired of this current slew of passive-aggressive... and disruptive... games, sorry...

Yes, Paul, beautifully put!

Father and Son and Holy Spirit, united in Love.

You might find interesting a book published in 1977, "His Life Is Mine", by Archimandrite Sophrony, translated from the Russian by Rosemary Edmonds. My copy is published by Mowbrays.

It is a beautiful book, dealing with exactly this concept. I think you'd find it rewarding, if you can find it somewhere. It is quite well known, and well regarded. Some library will have it.