xjwsforChrist

I do, too, dear Char (peace to both you and dear 'Mom!)... which is why MOST who call themselves "christians" have forgotten the entire jist: that it was the One ON the pole... not the pole itself (else, we can look to the pole of the other two who were hung beside that One, yes?) that we're supposed to be looking at/keeping our gaze on. I mean, the other two were ALSO hung on the SAME exact kind of wood structure. Which is WHY we were never to look at IT (nor were we EVER told to do so!). Because it, in fact, was NOT a thing to look on/to because it was considered an abomination - only criminals, etc., were hung on such apparatuses. Which is what made my Lord's hanging on such a thing SO wrong, SO diabolical: HE was without guile and thus committed no wrong, worthy of such a fate or otherwise!

To look at that icon, then, rather than at him... he who is NO LONGER HANGING, but was almost IMMEDIATELY taken DOWN, his body then PREPARED and placed in a PROPER tomb... after which his spirit/life force ROSE to live AGAIN... and is alive YET... is a smack in his face. He is ALIVE... and no longer ON a pole, particularly one for criminals.

But this is yet another "thing" that has caused so many, most particularly Israel... to take their gaze OFF the "copper serpent" Because they were and are too busy looking at the POLE the "serpent" that was lifted up was HUNG on... they couldn't... and STILL don't SEE... so as to gaze upon the "copper serpent" himself!

Let me show you what I mean. During their trek through the wilderness ON THEIR WAY to the promised land, Israel AGAIN took to whining and complaining:

"And the people spoke against God and against Moses: “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and our soul loathes this worthless bread.”

In other words, "We were FINE where we WERE! Sure, we were in slavery, working in great heat, under horrid conditions, not our own masters but subject to a burdening and cruel Pharaoh! But we prefer THAT to what we're dealing with NOW. NOW, we gotta eat that dang manna and we don't even know if it's gonna keep coming! Okay, sure, SO far it has, but... And sometimes it seems like there's no water! We gotta depend on Moses to get it out of a rock for us! No, bad as it was, it was better back in Egypt! There, we had leeks, and cucumbers, and meat! Handed out with a whip, okay, but still..."

"So the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Israel died. Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord that He take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people."

But Israel was given opportunity to be saved from such potentially fatal bites:

"Then JaHVeH said to Moses, “Make a fiery (glowing/radiating - hush 'Mom, LOLOL!) serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived."


Notice, the person wasn't told to look at the POLE on which the serpent was set, but on the SERPENT... ON the pole! And we, too, have the SAME opportunity! Because WE... ALL of us... and especially those who are Israel... are in the exact SAME "boat" today and have been since the death of the last Apostle: because WE began to murmur, complain, whine, call for signs, grow tired, give out, give up, etc., etc.... while awaiting the end of OUR trek to the promised land! Goodness, how often do we hear today, "Okay, so where is he? He's been returning for HOW long, now? And WHEN are you all going to get to your so-called "promised land"??!" And it gets old... and we get tired... and then WE start to behave like Israel did then!

And so, WE have been allowed to be bitten by fiery serpents, TOO: the "OFFSPRING of vipers," as our dear Lord referred to them! The hypocrites who claim they know (but don't) and see (but don't) and represent God/Christ (but don't) and place burdens on people they themselves can't carry (but say they do... but don't), etc. FALSE christs and FALSE prophets: the offspring of poisonous serpents... the seraphs who really control them.

How do we have that same opportunity? Because just as their mediator, Moses, said to THEM, OUR mediator, Christ, said to US:

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up[/i], that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." John 3:14, 15

Notice, he did not say "that whoever believes in the POLE (or cross, stake, whatever, etc.) on which he was hung... or what it symbolized"... but in HIM. And he said that "AS Moses lifted up the serpent... even SO must the Son of MAN be lifted up...". The pole that Moses lifted was not barren. He did not just lift up a naked pole. There was something ON that pole that Israel had to look at in order to live.

And it is the SAME today: looking at the POLE (cross/stake) on which our Lord was hung will NOT get us life. It is looking AT OUR LORD HIMSELF. Why? Because ON THE POLE... he DIED. The pole represents his death! But...

HE LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!

To look at the pole is to look at his death, not at his LIFE... or the everLASTING life he represents and can GIVE us.

I realize that today that symbol, the cross, has become a bigger icon than ever. Folks forget, though, that we are not to make an image... of ANYTHING... and look to it. The Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, only gave Israel ONE image to look at: the copper serpent ON the pole.

And that is the same and ONLY image we are to look at today: the copper SERAPH that is Christ, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Son and Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... who IS the ONLY image of the Living God, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies.

Golly, if folks could only get that. If they could only stop pretending that they believe Christ is alive... and live as if they KNOW it, which means ACKNOWLEDGING and ADMITTING that he speaks to them (what living person is silent?? What dead person speaks??)... even if others DO consider them crazy, "mentally diseased," delusional, schizophrenic, or whatever other unsavory definition they want to use. So what? If God is for you... WHO can be against you? Why not just ADMIT the experiences and openly DECLARE their faith... and in doing so shame... the Adversary... rather than BE ashamed of Christ before men...

Oh, what ones would hear... and see... and come to know. How much THIS world would benefit. To have the TRUTH. From... the Truth.

Ah, well. Unfortunately, the whole "mystery"... ahhh-ooooh-ahhhh, cherubic monk-like ritualistics, let's all gaze at stained-glassed and pretty paintings and gold tapestries and purple robes and fancy suits and large briefcases and old books and new magazines and ornate utensils and lighted candles and awe-inspiring buildings and large educational compounds... and... and... is more appealing. And it is, isn't it, to the eyes? Because, as one JW sister said to me when I first left:

"We can't worship what we can't see!!"

Apparently, some... many... can't, no. Well, those who know this make a grand living off giving folks things to see... to worship.

We shouldn't be known by the symbol hanging around our necks. We should be known... by our love.

My apologies if I got a bit... mmmmm... passionate. My recent experience on the other side of the world, brief though it was, has caused MY faith to rachet up several more notches. SEVERAL. So, I cannot help it. If I didn't declare Christ... the rocks would. I am nothing but a little rock. Tiny.

Peace, dear sister... and to you all!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama-di-ana...

WOW that was pretty well stated my sister,.....

So I am seeing before me the pole or cross with CHRIST on it. And today he is alive and speaks and no longer on it. He paid the price and died on the cursed pole only for criminals which he was not.

Do we look to/ gaze at CHRIST which gives life!

Or do we look to/ gaze at the cross, that which represents death and was a curse!

And remember what Jah told Israel, " Today, I put before you life and a blessing, or a curse or a malediction."
CHOOSE LIFE! So CHOOSE CHRIST!

Hope this came out right

Love Justmom

The comparisons laid out just so... yes!

Fiery serpents of the desert compared to the fiery serpents now (the hypocrites, etc)... from the grumbling in the desert, to the grumbling now. And we (man) LOOK for those fiery serpents to lead/rule over us.

I had also not ever even thought about the bronze serpent being a separate thing on the pole. For some reason, I always thought of that as the bronze serpent being a bronze-serpent-pole. I never paid attention to the account, or asked clarification on it.

That was a great post, Shelby... and Mom, that sounded like it came out just right to me : )


Peace,
tammy

That would all be valid, Shelby (nice to see you up off your sick bed and alert once more, by the way!) IF "looking at the cross" had meant actually merely looking at a representation of the cross (or pole or tree, doesn't matter right now) and NOT at the risen Christ. But it doesn't, wasn't for Julian of Norwich and wasn't at all what I had in mind when I wrote the comment to which you are responding.

The cross...or crucifix if it depicts the body of our crucified Lord...merely represents the. actual true FACT of God's great love for us, yes, the death ofOurLord, but that is only viewed in the light of the truth that he IS Our Risen Lord!

The fact of the Resurrection. And the truth that he is risen now and with us now, is the same for me and the same for you and the same for all of us. You are not of course the only one who hears His Voice, nor the only one who talks with him, though actually hearing an external voice is unusual, yet you are right in saying you are not the only one who talks with him.

You're right, of course! He lives! Yes!!!! That's the whole message of the Resurrection, the whole message of Easter. We actually differ, you and I, on the character of the Resurrection, and I hadn't realised that. I thought we believed the same. You speak of his spirit or life force being resurrected, but I believe and know and trust in the Resurrection of the Body.

Christ truly conquered death. He didn't just come alive as a spirit. The vanquishing of death was complete. We know this not merely because the grave was empty, but because Thomas was invited to put his hand into Christ's wounded side, into which the spears had been thrust.

Such is my belief anyway. I thought yours was the same...but the truth of the fact that Christ lives, is alive now, is not something that is yours and justmom's, and of a few others. This is the belief shared by all Christians. And the more I read your words the more convinced I am that by and large our faith is the same, despite the surprising (to me) difference on the fact of the resurrection...it had never occurred to me that you didn't believe that the resurrection was complete.

Yes, he lives! We all believe that! When you write as though others don't believe it, Shel, you're making a mistake. It's not just you. You're not on your own. It's everyone. I was thinking about you at Mass this morning, because I read your post several hours ago, but I realised afresh that I encounter Christ in so very many ways, all through the day. I am not alone. I know many, many people, so many, and there are countless millions who talk with Christ...and talk with God our Loving Father in Heaven...in very many different ways, all the time.

We just might not always use the same words as each other to describe it. That's all.

The analogy of the copper serpent on the pole is very very interesting. Extremely interesting. It had never before struck me that Moses' serpent was in any way a precursor or hint of what was to come, actually part of the eschatological development of the Scriptures. I shall reflect on this. Most interesting. Thank you.

Yet, not all profess hearing him speak, dear Char (peace to you, luv!). Why is that? What is there to be ashamed of? And before you respond, "No one is ashamed," I would ask to stop and think... and ask yourself: then why don't they PROFESS hearing him? Why must they qualify it with "in effect" and "something told me/said" and things like that? Why not simply SAY 'Christ said to/told me..."? You and I both know why, dear one: the "shame" that comes with doing so. The ridicule, false accusations of delusion/psychosis... the never ending "Oh, I think what you MEANT to say is that you BELIEVE he said/spoke to you/told you... but not, well, you know (now whispering) really..."

Because, of course, God... or Christ, if we're being specific... doesn't LITERALLY speak to people. Does he?
What say YOU, dear one?



Nor, dear Char, have I EVER made that claim. To the CONTRARY, I am one of the FEW who SAY that he speaks to ALL of mankind... contrary to MOST of mankind's DENIAL of this truth. I cannot recount how many times I have actually quoted where he SAYS his voice "is to the sons of mankind." (Proverbs 8:4)



It really isn't, one one. What is UNUSUAL... is for one to ADMIT they heard... and from WHOM they heard. Most simply explain it away. Because that is what they have been taught to do. Or because that is what will save their soul (the body of flesh)... 'cause Lord knows how many have been put to death for so professing, yes? But what did Christ himself say?

"What I say to you in the dark, tell in the daylight; what you hear in whispers, proclaim from the housetops..." Matthew 10:27 (Jerusalem Bible)

Wait a minute. What HE... SAYS?? What one HEARS??



Ah, now, dear Char, right though I might be, that's not exactly what I say, is it? You insinuate a one-way conversation ("who talks with HIM") which is NOT the case, at all, dear one. It is absolutely a two-way discussion: I talk with him... and he with me. It really is that way with most; the only difference is I am talking WITH him and he WITH me... whereas, with most, they are talking "to" him... and he "to" them. Which, unfortunately, results in a very missed... and misunderstood... exchange. There is no discussion, dear one. There are only people "talking".

What of LISTENING, though? God didn't say, "This is my Son, the Beloved... TALK to him." No, He said, "This is my Son, the Beloved... LISTEN to him!" (Matthew 17:5) And that Beloved Son didn't say, "My EARS are toward the voices of the sons of men." No, he said HE was calling and HIS VOICE is toward the sons of men." (Proverbs 8:4) Right?



If you think I believe that only his spirit/life force was resurrected, dear one, then you seriously misunderstand me. Because, first of all, the spirit/life force... DOES NOT DIE. It sleeps, yes, but it does not die. It cannot die. It must be destroyed. If my Lord's SPIRIT/life force had died... how was he able to go to the world of the dead and preach to the SPIRITS there? Yet, he, the Life... DID go there... IN SPIRIT... and preached. It is the body that dies, dear one... and so the body that is resurrected.

Hence, I know that my Lord was resurrected IN BODY. As all who are resurrected are. Some, however, those who take part in the FIRST resurrection... are resurrected to SPIRIT bodies, yes. Bodies transformed from physical matter... to spirit. Just as my Lord's body was changed. It was how he was able to ascend, dear one, and enter... so AS to offer his sacrifice. Remember: flesh and [its] blood cannot enter into the kingdom of the heavens. Yet, my Lord did so enter. How, though, if his body was as ours is now, flesh with [its] blood? Impossible. But of course, it WASN'T as ours are now. It was the body metamorphoso... changed. As will be the physical bodies of those who belong to him and are alive when he returns. As will be the physical bodies (which will only consist of bones/bone fragments/teeth) of those FIRST resurrected.

Paul explains it very well in his second letter to the Body that was in Corinth at the time:

"Someone may ask: How are dead people raised, and what sort of body do they have when they come? How foolish! What you sow must die before it is given new life; and what you sow is not the body that is to be, but only a bare grain, of wheat I dare say, or some other kind;"

[NOTE: When he wrote "sow", Paul was referring to the physical body... which is BURIED... when it dies. Buried in the earth, like a seed. Or... "sown". Because he was referring TO the seed... of the Woman.]

"it is God who gives it the sort of body that he has chosen for it, and for each kind of seed its own kind of body. Not all flesh is the same flesh: there is human flesh; animals have another kind of flesh, birds another and fish yet another.

"Then there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies;"

Actually, what Paul is saying here is that there are SPIRIT bodies (bodies of the SUBSTANCE of the spirit realm) and PHYSICAL bodies (bodies of the substance of the physical realm). Celestial and terrestrial.

"the heavenly (spiritual) have a splendour of their own, and the earthly (physical) a different splendour."

"The sun has its own splendour, the moon another splendour, and the stars yet another splendour; and the stars differ among themselves in splendour. It is the same too with the resurrection of the dead: what is sown is perishable, but what is raised is imperishable; what is sown is contemptible but what is raised is glorious; what is sown is weak, but what is raised is powerful; what is sown is a natural body, and what is raised is a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is a spiritual body too."

"So the first man, Adam, as scripture says, became a living soul; and the last Adam has become a life-giving spirit. But first came the natural body, not the spiritual one; that came only afterwards."

"The first man, being made of earth, is earthly by nature; the second man is from heaven. The earthly man is the pattern for earthly people, the heavenly man for heavenly ones."

"And as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so we shall bear the likeness of the heavenly one."

"What I am saying, brothers, is that mere human nature cannot inherit the kingdom of God: what is perishable cannot inherit what is imperishable.

"Now I am going to tell you a secret: we are not all going to fall asleep, but we are all going to be changed, instantly, in the twinkling of an eye, when the last trumpet sounds. The trumpet is going to sound, and then the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed, because this perishable nature of ours must put on imperishability, this mortal nature must put on immortality."

1 Corinthians 15:35-53 (Jerusalem Bible)



Yes, he did! But not for ALL, as you seem to believe, dear one. Else he lied when he said that there would be a resurrection... of the righteous AND the unrighteous. The RIGHTEOUS to life. What, though, of the UNrighteous? They, to judgment. And what of those "to judgment"? He showed John, did he not, in his revelation?

"Then I saw a great white throne and the One who was sitting on it. In his presence, earth and sky vanished, leaving no trace. I saw the dead, great and small alike, standing in front of his throne while the books lay open. And another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged from what was written in the books, as their deeds deserved. The sea gave up all the dead who were in it; Death and Hades were emptied of the dead that were in them; and every one was judged as his deeds deserved. Then Death and Hades were hurled into the burning lake. This burning lake is the second death; and anybody whose name could not be found written in the book of life was hurled into the burning lake." Revelation 20:10-15

If I recall correctly, you tend to steer clear of the Revelation due to a lack of understanding of what it contains and the meanings. I understand that. I no longer have to steer clear, though, because the very one who gave it to his spirit servant to give to John has been explaining it to me for some time (and he would you, too, if you only asked... and then put faith in what he told you as being truth AND as coming from him); hence, I have learned that it is not by man's interpretations, or man's understandings... and certainly not by my own... that what IS written in that book CAN be "revealed". But only by the One Who has been deemed WORTHY... to "open" its "seals." I digress.

Christ conquered death, yes... but ONLY for those WHO PUT FAITH IN HIM. Demonstrated faith. Active faith, such that it is "exercised", not dormant, not abstract. Not just words. For those who do not... there may be no "covering" for their sins, the PRICE for which... is death. I say may... because LOVE... might also provide a covering. JAH shows mercy to whomever He wishes to show it. Matthew 25:31-40



That's a peculiar statement to make, dear Char, truly. I am not sure you meant what you stated. Then, again, I'm not sure you didn't. And that's concerning to me. Because all through your comments I perceive that YOU perceive a "contention" which truly doesn't exist. We are not here to contend... or argue... or dispute... or debate. We are simply sharing what we have been given/received... and are yet receiving. Your comments indicate that you are yet taking personal offense, albeit not necessarily in an adversarial way. I totally understand how it feels when others don't agree with what one believes at a given time.

But what would you have me/us do, truly? Refrain from stating the truth because others don't believe/agree/get... it/the same... yet... if ever? If so, then perhaps you confuse some of us with the pseudo-christians that exist in droves. I am about the truth, dear Char. Really. Truly. I realize that there are few of us in the earth who truly are but we ARE here, luv.



Again, I think you misunderstand MY beliefs and understanding as to the resurrection, dear one. I hope my clarification above suffices to help you see that and what I DO understand about it.



Oh, dear, dear Char... YOU might believe it... and I might believe it... but to say we ALL believe it... (smile!)

I can tell you that JW's don't believe it. I mean, sure, they SAY he rose and lives... but tell one of them that he SPEAKS to you?! Heck, tell any (so-called) "christian" that Christ speaks to you... and what do YOU think the response will be? I fondly recall one JW "brother" telling me that Christ could NOT speak to me, that it was IMPOSSIBLE. When I asked him WHY it was "impossible" he said, quite loudly and with great frustation:

"Because he's DEAD!"

Now, of course, he regretted the words as soon as they came out of his mouth ("Wait, I didn't mean, what I meant was... I mean..."). But as Christ himself said:

"For the words of the mouth flow out of what fills the heart." Luke 6:45

If JWs... indeed, all of manking who PROFESS to believe that Christ rose... actually DID believe it... they would be SEEKING his voice... and LISTENING when he spoke. They don't, though. Either. Sadly.



Depends on which "others" you're referring to, dear Char. As a matter of course, however, SAYING one believes he rose... yet, LIVING as if he hasn't... well, you do the "math," luv.

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

I object here, oh great and powerful crackheads! Well seriously, my two cents here:

I feel that i've received messages back in the day about this.

I remember understanding what shelby said just now along the same lines of 'doesn't it say not to carve any engraven images?'

People asked me why I don't like the Cross and I would reply: "Lets take your brother's death, put it on a stick, take a picture, make an image, and hang it around our necks. Lets take the most painful time and experience your brother hand in his entire life, by being given lashes and dragged practically to the a place and impaled on a tree and remember that by making that image and putting it around our neck, and say 'he died for me.'

And when I would hear 'this is because it reminds US that WE are saved if we accept him.'

or something to that effect, and It's like ....where is your LOVE for him? Love is not selfish 1 Corinthians 13..

I do not like this terrible idea. If I remember an individual, I'd like to remember the person's messages, love, what they did, the good times, even what they accomplished. But not by making an engraved image of them in a casket and putting it around my neck. I mean I guess you could do that for LOVE, but, really, how loving is it to carry his dead body, or the tree that impaled him around your neck........blah

THAT'S IT, .......i'm joining satanism!

Me

What of those who keep their loved one's ashes in an urn inside their home to remember them?

It concerns me that people are critical of the way others choose to have a relationship with God/Jesus/etc.

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Yes your right. i was being critical of others. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I do get upset. My apologies. I do not profess to be a christian. ...I once did. I lost faith, and now i'm attempting to regain it. And I've sown some seeds that have led me astray. I profess this in hopes you understand this is not Christ's way of speaking. I'm not sure if i'm a 'Christian' again. But I do remember what i was taught by Christ when I was 'strong' in my faith. I am trying, like pushing a boulder uphill, to get to a point where i'm where he wants me to be. So feel free to call me as you wish, whatever that may be. If anything I am the prodigal Son, trying to find his way back to the Father. If that makes me 'christian' then I agree. I am. I am attempting to follow him. Train to hear his voice. Try to listen and obey it. I am attempting to do communion regularly,and wash feet, forgive, not judge and love others if I can. I am stating all these things not because out of arrogance, but rather, I do not DENY him. I'm ...just not worthy of much really. To even be called a faithful real Christian is an honor, I feel I have lost. and I am attempting to regain it somehow. I do believe he is real and alive and speaks to us, which is why i'm attempting to listen.

I apologize for digressing. It's a touchy subject for me. I do however believe what I have stated above. It is what was revealed to me by Christ a while ago. Many years.

As far as the Urn goes. If i'm not mistaken they scatter the ashes eventually. Even if they did not. We were discussing the 'not carving an engraved image' etc... and now we have a carved image or 'symbol' that represents ...God's salvation for man. It bothered me

Me

I understand

In my opinion there are many paths, and if not, then many ways to journey down a specific path

Choose a way and then own it

And it's always nice to have people journey the same path as you

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Voices, all i want to do right now is give you a big huge hug for the things you say. (as opposed to just a big... or just a huge... hug, lol) You follow our Lord, you listen to Him, you do not deny Him, and you are not ashamed to speak as to what He has told you.

Just needed to say that to you right now.

Peace and love to you, brother,

tammy

Not saying I don't love anyone else, btw... lol... or that no one else is following Christ.

Sometimes you just gotta give someone a huge cyber-hug. Such as I needed to do with Voices.


Peace!

tammy

*sniff* I never got a hug...

*points muzzle to the ground*

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

*snubs*

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Voices....

I'm with Tammy. How about a group hug????

Keep listening, my brother. We love you!
Justmom.