xjwsforChrist

What would you consider the negative aspects of his message to be, Zoe? I'm struggling to see any....

There was no negative in his message, it was all positive.

I find it hard to come across the right way writing in a post, if you heard me speak what I posted you would realize I was saying something nice about the Pope's message. I thought he was trying to reach out and tell people God loves everyone.

Hey, don't worry, I wasn't criticising you! I was just genuinely puzzled.

You're always well-meaning, Zoe!

PS He is indeed a really genuine, lovely, prayerful man. He comes across as a breath of fresh air!

And he cares especially about the poor and downtrodden and disadvantaged. That's what I like.

RE: The Pope and the Vatican's "clarification".

IMO, The Church has always stated that the DIRECT route to salvation is faith in Christ.
It has also stated that those that, for no fault of their own, do NOT believe, that what happens to them is Up to God and Christ.
In short, God KNOWS why we believe or do not believe and based on THAT, we will be judge accordingly.

A person that has been exposed to a "version" of Our Lord that is wrong and distorted and because of that does NOT believe, that person's lack of faith and belief may not be their own fault, a "stumbling block" was put in front of them.
A person that has not been exposed to Christ and His love, but is still a good and honest person, that has done very little wrong and has tried to be a good person, this person will be judged on that and NOT on their lack of belief/faith.

In short, God KNOWS and we should trust in THAT.

Well said Paul, that is how I have felt about it for years and how I got through the whole nightmare of being shunned and thrown out..
Is that what the Pope was saying, that we all are judged by our hearts not our choice of faith?

I was badly hurt and deceived by my exposure and upbringing in the JW religion and was put off spirtuality until recently. My heart was good but it turned hard against any talk of Jesus or God and the JW religion did that to me, am I to blame. People need to be judged on their circumstances and their hearts, not by what religion they have chosen (or by default because of location and parents).

That is a very valid point.
How many people have been turned off Christ because of what groups like the JW's and those like the Westboro Southern Baptists and others of their ilk?

I'm sorry the WTBS hurt you so Zoe. They did me too. It was like being a hamster on a never ending wheel. I remember an old bro saying to me once that I didn't have to work myself into the ground for Jah, that the WTBS was extreme. He reminded me that "God loves a cheerful giver". Nevertheless, the pressure they put on people to produce works is ridiculous and affected us all.

Perhaps their greatest sin IMO is the damage they inflict with their disfellowshipping rules and worse by claiming to represent Jah by doing so. It has broken the hearts of so many of us, and not all can pick themselves up spiritually and carry on after such abuse. They * are so very reprehensible.

Remember that Jah knows the number of hairs on our heads, thus he certainly knows our hearts, including the damage done to them. It must hurt Him so much.

Loz x
Edited to note that * refers to the WTBS, NOT the broken hearted people they damage.

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"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

That is what these groups do. Turn people away from God. That is the danger of basing one's faith in God, on any organization of man. Rather than looking solely upon Christ to show them the Father. Instead, people look to the religion to see/know what God wants of them and who God IS... and unfortunately, 'religions' fail, they are not the truth, they make mistakes, they mislead people, they hurt people... and people turn away from Christ and God, thinking that these groups accurately represent what Christ and God are supposed to be.

That is why so many who leave their religion become atheist. They aren't actually free, because they still believe that God and Christ are represented by the religion they left, and since the religion is a lie, then rather than understand that they lied ABOUT Christ and God as well, many people jump to the conclusion that Christ and God are a lie as well. They still believe their former religion's version of Christ and God. Many have been so hurt, that they are also angry, and afraid to open themselves up to become that hurt again. That is understandable, and one reason why Christ is saying 'Come', and those who belong to Him are also saying, 'Come'... come to HIM to know God, come to HIM for life... and no one else.

(And whether someone is supposed to be looking at the religion to see God or not (according to the religion), there will always be people who do so, and every religion must know this, and has a responsibility to emphasize NOT looking at them to see God, of not listening to them either, but listening/looking solely at Christ)

Peace,
tammy

You make some really excellent points here Tammy.

Loz x

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"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Oops wrong thread.

Loz x

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"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

More and more, I believe that religions like the JW's are actually part of Satan's scheme. That's why, although huge numbers are entrapped by his lies, so very many are not, because ultimately he will not prevail.

Zoe, you asked, "is that what the Pope was saying, that we are all judged by our hearts and not our choice of faith?"

Yes, absolutely. I've said several times on here, a good heart is all. Our actions are considered against our circumstances, our motives, our desires, and whether or not we were under coercion, under pressure. Zoe, you were brought up in the WT from childhood, and from what you've told us, your father was very strict and you were most definitely under coercion. That is very different from someone who knows that it is not the truth but continues anyway to go door to door, so that they appear to be conforming. Perhaps they might do that from family pressure too.

Someone who pressurises vulnerable people into believing something like JW's, perhaps vulnerable adults or those who are somehow dependent on them, or who encourages or even forces children, their own or those not belonging to them, to take on Watchtower beliefs, such a person would certainly seem much more culpable than someone forced from childhood to conform.

No-one knows another person's whole circumstances and motivations. Only God knows the heart.

To expand.
As Christ said, He who is not against Me is for me.
The JW's give the impression that are FOR Christ but the fact is that they put the "annointed GB" between man and Christ.
They allow and even motivate their children to die rather than to receive blood that can save them, in the name of God.
They pressure people into NOT partaking in the "body" of Christ, to not feeling deserving to be saved by Christ.
All this ( and more) makes them against Christ ( or at least a barrier between people and Christ).
Not Good.
IMO and I have said this often, we must be VERY careful HOW we preach the word of God, the Gospel because if we are responsible for even ONE person getting the wrong idea about Christ, if we are a factor that drives a person from Christ then we are the stumbling blocks that Christ warned us not to be.
EX:
Romans 14:


The Weak and the Strong

1Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10You, then, why do you judge your brother or sistera ? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written:

“ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’ ”b
12So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.c

and:



Jesus said to the twelve, “If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if a great millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea.” (Mk 9.42)

Organized religion has also exposed many people to the teachings of Christ where otherwise they would be unaware

Been supremely busy the past few days with nieces and nephews and graduations but ill be back soon with my postings

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To fear me is to love me....

Missed your dark powers, Pup!